[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by buggyone

I wonder how long it will be before some our gun enthusiasts will come on and say that schools should not be gun free zones since that encourages someone to come start shooting since it will be a safe area for them to do their shooting with no danger. Yeah, stop guns by bringing in more guns. That is going to end well.

What do you propose? Have the police TALK the shooter to death?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by DaleMN

Love all the arm chair psychologists.

That which does not destroy you, makes you stronger- Nietzsche

[billethkid]

Yup it is always guns that pulls the trigger on these occasions!
We certainly do not want to encourage discipline....report the wacko acting individuals....encourage more profiling.....metal detectors......clear back packs only......lock the schools down when the first bell rings......
Nope hafta be sure not to hurt someone's feelings or impinge upon the individual's rights....

The permissive nature of our society just will NOT allow what needs to be done.

After all these shootings what, of significance has changed to PREVENT the violence in our schools?

How many billions of dollars have been pledged to make the schools safe? Like the billions being committed to illegal alien dumping of children.....for example.

When a school shooting happens it's lights, camera, action for the usual hollow commentary like there was so much of today. Then back to business as usual.....until the next shooting/stabbing/violence.

Way too much talk and special interest pandering and CYA....words don't make anything happen.
Shame on us!

[buggyone]

I do not consider a "gun free zone" broken if the ones who have a gun are a security team. The gun free zone I mean is where the general public is not allowed to enter with a gun.

I am in favor of metal detectors and security teams in schools. Most large cities have them.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Yup it is always guns that pulls the trigger on these occasions!
We certainly do not want to encourage discipline....report the wacko acting individuals....encourage more profiling.....metal detectors......clear back packs only......lock the schools down when the first bell rings......
Nope hafta be sure not to hurt someone's feelings or impinge upon the individual's rights....

The permissive nature of our society just will NOT allow what needs to be done.

After all these shootings what, of significance has changed to PREVENT the violence in our schools?

How many billions of dollars have been pledged to make the schools safe? Like the billions being committed to illegal alien dumping of children.....for example.

When a school shooting happens it's lights, camera, action for the usual hollow commentary like there was so much of today. Then back to business as usual.....until the next shooting/stabbing/violence.

Way too much talk and special interest pandering and CYA....words don't make anything happen.
Shame on us!

Allow me to repeat what this says...

"Yup it is always guns that pulls the trigger on these occasions!
We certainly do not want to encourage discipline....report the wacko acting individuals....encourage more profiling.....metal detectors......clear back packs only......lock the schools down when the first bell rings......
Nope hafta be sure not to hurt someone's feelings or impinge upon the individual's rights...."


Simply create a political issue....it is easier for everyone.

Good post BTK

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Sure glad this was not a Ban Guns post!

[TNLAKEPANDA]

May be we should bring prayer back to all schools!

[buggyone]

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA

Sure glad this was not a Ban Guns post!

It wasn't and didn't evolve into that, did it?

[Doctommft]

[quote=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;891143]

Originally Posted by Doctommft

So you're saying that having armed guards in the schools would cut school shootings by 50%? Sounds like that's something that should be in the mix.
In addition, an armed guard may stop a shooter before he kills anyone or may lower the number of people shot.
I'm not saying that this is the sole answer as I agree with a lot of people on this thread. These problems are not caused by the availability of guns, but are the result of many complex sociological problems that we currently have in this country.

You should re-read my response, then your response regarding 50% (of solutions, not shootings.

[Steve9930]

I believe there is just not one item to exam that explains this behavior we now see by our young people or some adults also. To blame these occurrences on an object is not looking at the root of the problem. To politicize these occurrences by either side shows one of the problems. Neither side trusts one another any more. Part of the problem is parenting, part is the social environment, part is our current form of education, part is our entertainment industry, part is our social programs, part is our lack of respect of authority and each other, part is our spiritual lives, part is how we communicate, part is our mental health system, Plus, Plus, and Plus. One thing I can say for sure, when a youngster who is not of legal age to buy his or her own firearm, uses it to commit a crime, negligence by someone is involved. Those that choose to own a firearm have a great responsibility to make sure that firearm is secure. The other thing I can say for sure is if the right and left attitudes do not change nothing of any useful nature will come about to help solve the problem. This is a social problem that has been in the works for years as our way of life and technology evolves and it appears we are not handling the changes well. There is also more then one type of problem with difference causes going on in our society. What happened and why it happened here has one cause. What is happening in our inner cities is another totally different problem. I no longer listen to the Orlando News because its the same thing every night. Some one was shot.

Many will call for additional firearm laws but the truth is there are plenty of firearm laws on the books that do not get enforced. More laws will not change anything. Just more laws that get selectively enforced. Lets start to enforce all the ones on the books now and then go from there.

Since this discussion will become more heated down the road to help save lives then we should provide security for all schools. What a shame this needs to be done but had we done that 74 shootings ago how many would have been avoided or limited.

We need to have an honest discussion about firearms. If you look at the statistics we do not have a rifle problem we have a pistol problem. As a firearm owner myself I do not have any problem with stronger laws when it comes to semi-auto pistols. Though multi-state background checks for buying a pistol would be a good start. Strong mandatory sentencing for using a pistol or any weapon in a crime is a another good starter. The fact of the matter if you believe that the 2nd Amendment was written to keep the Government inline your not going to do that with a semi-automatic pistol. A wheel gun for home or personal defense is more then adequate and yes you can keep all the semi-automatic rifles. In either case those that choose to own a firearm have a responsibility to keep it secure so others cannot use it for evil.

I've gone on long enough. I hate these tragedies as not only does it cause such a heart ache with those involved but it also seems to bring out all the nut cases on both sides of the fence.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

[quote=Doctommft;891624]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

You should re-read my response, then your response regarding 50% (of solutions, not shootings.

So please explain how having armed guards to protect school children would eliminate 50% of the solutions. Do you have a list of proposed solutions so that you can show us which of them will eliminated by wanting armed guards?


I think that I'm broad minded enough to consider that armed guards should be a component of the solution.

[ugotme]

Originally Posted by buggyone

It will not be solved on TOTV but certainly it is a good topic for discussion as an open forum is supposed to do.

I wonder how long it will be before some our gun enthusiasts will come on and say that schools should not be gun free zones since that encourages someone to come start shooting since it will be a safe area for them to do their shooting with no danger. Yeah, stop guns by bringing in more guns. That is going to end well.

Are the shootings the result of bad parenting, coddled children, violent video games, gratuitous violence in movies, removal of God from schools, or just plain crazy people?

Before jumping to a quick answer remember that one answer may not fit all circumstances.

With all due respect. Do you really think "Gun free zones" really means anything to someone intent on doing harm?

I have read many of your posts and although you are obviously an anti-gun person I respect your right to your point of view.

Keep in mind that there are so many gun laws now in effect and that will never - NEVER - stop some deranged fool from causing harm.

I will not pretend to have the answer and I usually refrain from getting involved in gun issues because an anti-gun person will never see the other side of the argument and neither will pro gunners.

I am a pro-gunner and enjoy the shooting sports.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

If It's A School Week In America, Odds Are There Will Be A School Shooting

Anyone have any practical suggestions about how to stop these shootings? More education about how to stop marginalizing kids done by other kids? Bullying has always been around but why has it gone to such extremes? Copycat shooters who feel that's the only way to get what they want?

Did anyone read the article in the link of the OP? What inane drivel!

Quote: "Not surprisingly, schools tend to be safer when they are not in session. The longest gap between school shootings appears between mid-June and mid-August of 2013, which falls during summer break, when the majority of students are not enrolled in classes. Other gaps of weeks or longer fall during periods when schools are typically on winter, spring or summer breaks."

This is supposed to be insightful commentary?

There are no shootings when there is no one there? What insight! (Special font for sarcasm needed here.)

-----------

Moving on the question of the OP for practical suggestions for stopping shootings among teenagers. There will always be assaults among teens; some are more deadly than others. In some cases, if guns are available then guns will be used. If they are not available, other weapons will be used.

My high school years were in San Antonio, Texas, where fights between Anglos and Mexicans were not uncommon. In those days the weapon of choice was knives. (For insight see West Side Story and/or Rock Around The Clock.) Yes, I carried a pocket knife. Carrying knives on school grounds was not prohibited. I don't recall anyone getting killed and there were no school shootings.

And where I lived, in the South, guns were very available. Almost family I knew had a rifle behind the kitchen door and a pistol in a dresser drawer. For some reason, even the most violent of the teenagers did not choose to resort to firearms.

Our culture has changed. Resorting to firearms is now the first choice of teenagers. Except for the recent mass killing in Santa Barbara where the teen killed three people with a knife and one with his car, you seldom read of mass killings by knife.

The answer to the OP is that there is presently NO PRACTICAL method of preventing school campus assaults by firearm. So, the question becomes how do you minimize the extent of damage done by the gunman who intrudes onto a school campus.

And the answer, hated and derided by many is THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO STOP A BAD MAN WITH A GUN IS INTERVENTION BY A GOOD MAN WITH A GUN.

And, the sooner the good man with a gun arrives at the scene, the fewer victims will fall to the bad man. Many jurisdictions are not only moving toward having armed security guards or police officers on the school campus, but also discretely arming school executives who have proper training and motivation. I believe this is the correct course of action.

Like everyone who posts, this is just my opinion. But it is an informed opinion of someone who has been:

A city police dispatcher
A county jail guard
A Sheriff's Patrol uniformed deputy sheriff
A Sheriff"s Office detective in Organized Crime
A Sheriff's Office Hostage Negotiator
A U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Criminal Investigator
A U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Supervisor
A U.S. Army Military Policeman
A U.S. Army Criminal Investigator
A survivor of several gunfights


.

[Doctommft]

[quote=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;891678]

Originally Posted by Doctommft

So please explain how having armed guards to protect school children would eliminate 50% of the solutions. Do you have a list of proposed solutions so that you can show us which of them will eliminated by wanting armed guards?


I think that I'm broad minded enough to consider that armed guards should be a component of the solution.

Re-read our posts. You are way out there in misunderstanding everything that has been written. Maybe your probable bias has something to do with that.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

[quote=Doctommft;891710]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Re-read our posts. You are why out there in misunderstanding everything that has been written. Maybe your probable bias has something to do with that.

OK, here is your post:

I wonder how long it will be before some our gun enthusiasts will come on and say that schools should not be gun free zones since that encourages someone to come start shooting since it will be a safe area for them to do their shooting with no danger. Yeah, stop guns by bringing in more guns. That is going to end well.

Well here is what you wanted. If a creep knows that a school has a guard with a gun, he/she may think twice unless their goal is death by cop. You have eliminated 50% of proposed solutions to the problem. Very narrow of you.

What I'm trying to understand is how, by wanting armed guards at schools, we eliminate 50% of the proposed solutions to the problem?

I am simply asking what are the solutions that this eliminates? I don't understand that part of your post and have asked twice now that you explain it.

I fully understand that armed guards would not prevent people who want to die in this manner from attempting shootings, but it might prevent those who do not want to die. It may also mitigate the damage done by those whose wish is death by cop. So how is this narrow minded?

Carl in Tampa has made a post that makes the most sense. "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. And the sooner that the good guy arrives, the less damage there will be"

I think that this is a problem that has a lot of complex causes and will require many different actions to combat it. Certainly we need to look at how our children are being raised and what happened psychologically to our society in general. We might consider the effect of violent video games and movies are having on us. There are probably a hundred other things that should be considered and plans implemented to help. But, having armed guards in the schools is an immediate deterrent for many of these criminals and an immediate means of prevention and mitigation in many of these cases. I don't know why some people would be so narrow minded as to want to eliminate that as part of the solution.

Unfortunately, as I have pointed out with some of the links I've posted, some anti-gun groups are using these shootings as a political tool to achieve their goal of completely banning guns in this country. They are making this problem out to be much bigger than it actually is. Until we get people to put aside their biases and agree to do whatever it takes to end the problem, it will continue.