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-   -   Adios Chinese EVs (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/adios-chinese-evs-349801/)

BrianL99 05-05-2024 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2328437)
I am sorry you do not understand how this program works. Your home mortgage comparison is apples to oranges. "not much different" as you put it IS different. A bank is a for profit entity.
1. Not every student loan qualifies. 2. the student loan has to have a minimum of 20 years payback history. 3. 100% of the principal must have been repaid. 4. The Government BORROWS the money at a lower rate than it charged for the loan. Translation: the government made money on the loan (Profit). In these cases...20 years of profits! 5. The government is only forgiving future profit from the future interest.

Student Loan Forgiveness will cost the USA $400 BILLION over 30 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Biden's student loan forgiveness plan will cost $400 billion, budget office says : NPR

Not FOX news. Not CSPAN.

jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2327841)
It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?

Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 2328076)
We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be paying people to buy a certain car. We also shouldn't be paying off student loan debt.

I disagree with both.

Greatlawn 05-05-2024 01:23 PM

If China could export its high quality low cost EVs to the US it would speed adoption of EVs and reduce prices for consumers and taxpayers. Now that’s capitalism?

jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmurano (Post 2328284)
We should not give out $7500 tax credits to any EV owner. This is a rip off. We also subsidize EV owners in road maintenance since these moneys come from tax on gas. Then we probably subsidize superfund toxic landfills to discard these EV toxic batteries when they need them 8-10 years down the road. We also pay for building the EV charging infrastructure. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this, have every EV owner subsidize this, I don’t want them and I will never need them, so I shouldn’t pay for them.
All EV owners need to pay their fair share of road maintenance, and the costs of the new charging stations across the country. It costs way more for an EV, and with these extra costs, nobody would look at buying an EV.

Older people like in The Village should be aware that allergies and lung diseases are intensified by bad air. ICE engine vehicles and golf carts product BAD air and Electric vehicles do NOT. If bad health could be QUANTIFIABLE then people could see the problems of ICE vehicles. We ALL want more health and longer life, but NOT everyone sees the connection negatively for ICE vehicles.
.....There actually may be scientific studies that show longer life with the better air from E-vehicles. I am sure that there are studies about people living near factory smokestacks living shorter lives.

jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bealman (Post 2328336)
Hard to believe anything union made could be affordable.

The price of EVs would come down if more people purchased them. More DEMAND for EVs would make for bigger factory assembly lines, which would increase production efficiency and bring prices down. Battery technology will improve in the future and so will more charging stations. EVs have many, many advantages and saying things bad about them is like saying, "stop the FUTURE".

jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2328397)
Ford and everyone else is losing a small fortune on EV's. They have no choice but to make them & them dump them. Without EV's, they can't meet CAFE requirements.

20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

biker1 05-05-2024 01:53 PM

Please tell us again which EV you own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328555)
20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.


jimjamuser 05-05-2024 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2328556)
Please tell us again which EV you own.

Actually, I have the maximum that I can afford and for the spaces that I have to park them.

Vermilion Villager 05-05-2024 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2328523)
Student Loan Forgiveness will cost the USA $400 BILLION over 30 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Biden's student loan forgiveness plan will cost $400 billion, budget office says : NPR

Not FOX news. Not CSPAN.

1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

Caymus 05-05-2024 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2328572)
1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

So why does a company like Chevron have a higher tax rate than one like Amazon?

keepsake 05-05-2024 05:44 PM

Doesn't some of the blame belong on the USA's EPA ? They can make the lithium batteries in China but not the USA. China must be polluting another planet I guess.

Topspinmo 05-05-2024 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328555)
20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

Europeans don’t have to drive that far, so it practical in most cases.

Topspinmo 05-05-2024 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328543)
I disagree with both.


So you have student loan that you made choice to get and agreed to payoff?

Topspinmo 05-05-2024 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2328577)
So why does a company like Chevron have a higher tax rate than one like Amazon?

And why does government make more on gallon gas than chevron? Why does Amazon get breaks??? $$$$$$$ donations maybe?

Topspinmo 05-05-2024 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328549)
Older people like in The Village should be aware that allergies and lung diseases are intensified by bad air. ICE engine vehicles and golf carts product BAD air and Electric vehicles do NOT. If bad health could be QUANTIFIABLE then people could see the problems of ICE vehicles. We ALL want more health and longer life, but NOT everyone sees the connection negatively for ICE vehicles.
.....There actually may be scientific studies that show longer life with the better air from E-vehicles. I am sure that there are studies about people living near factory smokestacks living shorter lives.

Have you heard of the Catholic converter:D

bmcgowan13 05-05-2024 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2327841)
It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?

The government is trying to protect/promote US industries -- and their workers.

We (the US taxpayer) subsidized/bailed-out Harley Davidson, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Bear-Sterns (2008), Chrysler (1980), the Savings and Loan industry (1989), US Banks (200B), US Airlines (2001), 2008 TARP (700B!), American International Group Inc., (AIG) 2013, Airlines/COVID (2020), etc.

The government subsidies to promote their country's business. The Chinese government (and all US automakers) realize the future is in electric vehicles. The Chinese government subsidies a *lot* of Chinese cars, Sheetrock, steel and businesses--for a pragmatic reason. It makes good business sense. The Chinese spend up to 5% of their entire GDP in subsidies.

I think this has become pretty much a common business practice for businesses nowadays... It helps the US company stay ahead of foreign competition...

JMintzer 05-05-2024 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328555)
20 % OF NEW CAR sales in EUROPE are EVs. The US is at 7% I feeel that we are the backward ones.

The US isn't Europe. Completely different transportation issues, distances traveled, etc...

JMintzer 05-05-2024 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328558)
Actually, I have the maximum that I can afford and for the spaces that I have to park them.

So that's Zero, right?

Shipping up to Boston 05-05-2024 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2328634)
So that's Zero, right?

Do as I say.....not as I do?

JMintzer 05-05-2024 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328540)
Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

Does all of that newly needed electricity come from the "electricity fairy"?

China os building coal fired electric plants weekly. I guess there must be a wall preventing that pollution from effecting "the air we all breathe"...

JMintzer 05-05-2024 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston (Post 2328635)
Do as I say.....not as I do?

The epitome of that...

defrey12 05-05-2024 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2327856)
Protectionism via an inverse tariff. Good for the EV haters and good for the China haters but bad for the consumer.

My prediction (FWIW): Prices will remain high or even increase.

Good. Proof of an inferior product that was not market driven but rather agenda driven.

Normal 05-06-2024 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2328572)
1. Yes....$400 billion in lost PROFITS! It's not like the government is going to be writing a $400 billion check. 2. The current student loan forgiveness proposal is not what the CBPO is referencing from 2022 (2years ago).
It's nice to see that people are upset about certain things. As long as you are there in that outrage, please weigh in on your thoughts that the government gives $1 trillion every year in subsidies (lost income to the US) to an oil industry that earn $4 trillion in profits?:read:

Question: When are we getting back to the EV debate????

Focus, this is about ceasing the payment of the US taxpayer to the government of China via their electric vehicle program. They have gotten enough from us. Whether they got 7500 dollars in sales for each purchase or 7 dollars, we shouldn’t be paying China anything.

biker1 05-06-2024 05:41 AM

Doubtful. EVs typically weigh more than ICE cars because of the battery. Increased weight will lengthen stopping distances. Regardless, I doubt it is a significant factor.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328540)
Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.


spd2918 05-06-2024 09:03 AM

Dump all EV subsidies. Why is a minimum wage worker forced to subsidize the purchase of someone's luxury vehicle? It's political graft.

jimjamuser 05-06-2024 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2328692)
Doubtful. EVs typically weigh more than ICE cars because of the battery. Increased weight will lengthen stopping distances. Regardless, I doubt it is a significant factor.

I was comparing equal weight vehicles. It is well known that Tesla vehicles beat ANY ICE vehicle in acceleration from a start. That is because electric DC motors have max torque almost instantly. The lower center of gravity of any E-vehicle ALSO makes for better acceleration. And decceleration from braking is the same principle.
......Lower center of gravity is why sport cars (even ICE ones) are built as low as possible to the ground. The old Austin Healy is one example of that. Unfortunately speed bumps came along and took an edge away from true sports cars.

jimjamuser 05-06-2024 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 2328790)
Dump all EV subsidies. Why is a minimum wage worker forced to subsidize the purchase of someone's luxury vehicle? It's political graft.

The minimum wage worker is forced to be in a world of EVs because the US and other governments know that breathing clean air is GOOD for the worker. The worker may not realize that fact.
.........Many average people resist change. In the 1950s my own father told me that TVs were a passing FAD. But, the government (with its multitudes of experts) thought otherwise about television back then and now today - about EVs.

biker1 05-06-2024 01:06 PM

Reading comprehension problem? Reread my post. The additional weight of EVs will impact their braking distance. When comparing comparable cars, the EV will weigh more. The rest of stuff in your post no nothing to do with what I said. Try to stay on point.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2328854)
I was comparing equal weight vehicles. It is well known that Tesla vehicles beat ANY ICE vehicle in acceleration from a start. That is because electric DC motors have max torque almost instantly. The lower center of gravity of any E-vehicle ALSO makes for better acceleration. And decceleration from braking is the same principle.
......Lower center of gravity is why sport cars (even ICE ones) are built as low as possible to the ground. The old Austin Healy is one example of that. Unfortunately speed bumps came along and took an edge away from true sports cars.



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