[dbussone]

Originally Posted by John_W

With all this talk about rifles, how about a picture. I wanted something like I carried in the Army, which was a M-16. A couple of years ago I bought a Smith & Wesson MP 15-22, it shoots 22 LR via a 25 round magazine. It's semi-automatic, very smooth operation and light. I've added the scope and tripod, upgraded the stock, added the sling, upgraded the grip. Here it is.

Very nice, John. She's a beauty. Do you use it for varmint hunting?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by tomwed

There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans.
How many courses would we need so everyone safely knows how to handle a gun?
There are 320 million Americans.
How many students will be in each class?
Will the courses be free?
Will the teachers be paid?
Will the students be required to read past the third grade level?
Will the classes be bi-lingual?
Will the states pick up the tab or the federal government?
Who will manage the student records?

You have to take into consideration that many gun owners own multiple guns. One of the reasons that the number per 100 is so high is that we are wealthy country and many people can afford several guns. Some very wealthy gun owners may own hundreds of guns. That doesn't mean that 90 people out of every 100 own a gun.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

You have to take into consideration that many gun owners own multiple guns. One of the reasons that the number per 100 is so high is that we are wealthy country and many people can afford several guns. Some very wealthy gun owners may own hundreds of guns. That doesn't mean that 90 people out of every 100 own a gun.

I know it doesn't.
What is your hunch on how many people out of a hundred own guns?
There are 325 million people and 290 million guns. That much we know.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I know it doesn't.
What is your hunch on how many people out of a hundred own guns?
There are 325 million people and 290 million guns. That much we know.

According to Pew Research about 40% of our households own guns.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by Shimpy

I pity you and your family if your only defense is a can of wasp spray, a car remote and billy club. Even Mace is shown to be ineffective against many, especially on drugs where they eyes water and disperse the spray. A car remote triggering an alarm? This is so common to hear that no one pays attention to and is worthless. By the time the police are called and arrive they can only write a report describing the crime scene. We can't rely on others to protect our home and family for us and must take it upon ourselves to learn and train how to do that. It's not hard, just got to realize that help isn't going to come in the nick of time like in the movies.

Don't need or want your pity Mr Shrimpy. Your paranoia is obvious. If you shoot someone even in self defense be prepared to spend $75-$100K for your defense. There are many non lethal ways to deal with an intruder. My goal would be to scare the intruder off not kill them. Did you ever shoot someone? I haven't and never want to. I fear that would haunt me forever even in self defense.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Walter123

Don't need or want your pity Mr Shrimpy. Your paranoia is obvious. If you shoot someone even in self defense be prepared to spend $75-$100K for your defense. There are many non lethal ways to deal with an intruder. My goal would be to scare the intruder off not kill them. Did you ever shoot someone? I haven't and never want to. I fear that would haunt me forever even in self defense.

Anecdotal, safety of one's arm chair verbiage does truly allow one to tell a story of any sort and predict what they would do or not. However in the absence of actually being an adrenal pumping fear for one's life or the life of a family member situation, almost all have no idea what their reaction would in fact be.

Here is a real story. Dog barking frantically at middle of the night. My daughter gets up to see what is up. Goes in family room to find someone cutting the screen on a window. She runs back to the bedroom gets her 12 gauge pump shotgun. Yells for the person to stop or be shot. The intruder places one leg inside the window. The dog raising hell has not slowed the person nor did the warning. Then she racked the gun and said he had until she counted to 3 before she shoots. Before hearing the end of the sentence he was gone in a flash.

Real life situation. The only difference between my daughter and me. I would have shot the intruder in the leg as he straddled the window.

Now back in the armchair. Why would an intruder to come forth with a hell raising dog barking away? Why would an intruder continue to try to enter after a verbal warning? NO FEAR......and why not? It is all hypothetical from this point.

So I chuckle when I hear what some here pontificate what they would do or not. YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!!!! Hence training like insurance...ya never know is the only fact of life.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Anecdotal, safety of one's arm chair verbiage does truly allow one to tell a story of any sort and predict what they would do or not. However in the absence of actually being an adrenal pumping fear for one's life or the life of a family member situation, almost all have no idea what their reaction would in fact be.

Here is a real story. Dog barking frantically at middle of the night. My daughter gets up to see what is up. Goes in family room to find someone cutting the screen on a window. She runs back to the bedroom gets her 12 gauge pump shotgun. Yells for the person to stop or be shot. The intruder places one leg inside the window. The dog raising hell has not slowed the person nor did the warning. Then she racked the gun and said he had until she counted to 3 before she shoots. Before hearing the end of the sentence he was gone in a flash.

Real life situation. The only difference between my daughter and me. I would have shot the intruder in the leg as he straddled the window.

Now back in the armchair. Why would an intruder to come forth with a hell raising dog barking away? Why would an intruder continue to try to enter after a verbal warning? NO FEAR......and why not? It is all hypothetical from this point.

So I chuckle when I hear what some here pontificate what they would do or not. YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!!!! Hence training like insurance...ya never know is the only fact of life.

You are correct. No one really knows what they might do or, might be able to do. So do whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by tomwed

It's only 160 million people or less who need training minus any schools that have been training all along.
Anyone who doesn't speak English is exempt or is required to learn English before attending class and someone will be hired to enforce the rule.
All my great grandparents came through Ellis Island. By the time my grand parents came along they were assimilated too. It's very common where I came from. We lived close to Ellis Island.
I'm a retired teacher. When I started teaching we had drivers Ed and many shop, music and art classes that had to be dropped as budgets got voted down. Guess who voted them down?

When I was 16, I had to pay for my own driver's ed classes at a private driving school. I don't understand why taxpayers should have to pay to teach kids how to drive. Music class in my Jr High School was a joke. We sat and sang songs while the "teacher" played the piano. Art classes weren't much different. We considered, music, art and shop as a break from classes.
Now, I'm a musician and as such an artist. I am very much in favor of the arts, but the way they were being taught when I was in school was a joke. I can see paying for these kinds of subjects in school if the kids actually learned something about them. I never learned a thing about music in school. I took private lessons and taught myself.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

When I was 16, I had to pay for my own driver's ed classes at a private driving school. I don't understand why taxpayers should have to pay to teach kids how to drive. Music class in my Jr High School was a joke. We sat and sang songs while the "teacher" played the piano. Art classes weren't much different. We considered, music, art and shop as a break from classes.
Now, I'm a musician and as such an artist. I am very much in favor of the arts, but the way they were being taught when I was in school was a joke. I can see paying for these kinds of subjects in school if the kids actually learned something about them. I never learned a thing about music in school. I took private lessons and taught myself.

I guess these last few posts point out differences in people's experiences and expectations. My son, for example, started playing the double bass in the 5th grade. He had the same classroom music instructor form then to end of high school, and their orchestra won awards all over the state. He didn't start taking lessons until he was a sophomore in high school. In fact, he didn't even get a bass of his own till then. The art and music programs in his school were excellent, as they were in my own.

As for guns vs wasp spray, I'm glad your daughter is okay, BTK. I personally would have gone with the wasp spray, especially since I don't have a gun. So I'm with Walter on that one.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by CFrance

I guess these last few posts point out differences in people's experiences and expectations. My son, for example, started playing the double bass in the 5th grade. He had the same classroom music instructor form then to end of high school, and their orchestra won awards all over the state. He didn't start taking lessons until he was a sophomore in high school. In fact, he didn't even get a bass of his own till then. The art and music programs in his school were excellent, as they were in my own.

As for guns vs wasp spray, I'm glad your daughter is okay, BTK. I personally would have gone with the wasp spray, especially since I don't have a gun. So I'm with Walter on that one.

The education opportunities for myself and our children and grandchildren were very, very good and included advanced placement courses and wonderful art and music classes that were not for deadbeats.

One of the things I find hard in The Villages is that we all seem to think that our area of the country does things or has things or experiences things in the same way as all other areas of the country..

I got into a heated argument with a retired New York Police officer who told me I was misinformed about the area of Ohio where I lived and the fact that it had one murder in twenty years with close to a hundred thousand in population.

We come with preconceived ideas because our experiences give us those ideas.

I was at first shocked and surprised to find people who had guns who didn't hunt, but the world is changing. I would rather the good guys have guns. And maybe someday I will too.

[tuccillo]

I had several neighbors (in GA, recently) with concealed carry permits and the only thing they did was pay $75.

Originally Posted by dbussone

In 1979 in Marietta, the sheriff requested that I take a gun safety course despite having just moved from MA with a carry permit. I still have the GA permit - it has my thumbprint on it rather than a photo.

[tuccillo]

I believe when you apply for a concealed carry permit they do a computer background check for a criminal record and whether you have been committed for mental illness.

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

How does one prove lacking a history of mental illness?

Not that I need another gun...

[MikeV]

I had NY, NH, PA and CT concealed carry permits when I moved to FL. Now I have FL CCW. My FL CCW is good in 32 states but not NY or CT. My point is every time I applied for a new State CCW I had to go through all the background checks and fingerprinting, pay a fee etc. The only class I had to take was the NRA Basic Firearms Class and it was good in all the States I applied to. The applications and fees are specific to each state. In Florida all I had to do was include a copy of my NY permit since that is where I came from and do the above stuff pay a fee and I got it in about 6 weeks. So if you think it an easy process I would tend to disagree.

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by MikeV

I had NY, NH, PA and CT concealed carry permits when I moved to FL. Now I have FL CCW. My FL CCW is good in 32 states but not NY or CT. My point is every time I applied for a new State CCW I had to go through all the background checks and fingerprinting, pay a fee etc. The only class I had to take was the NRA Basic Firearms Class and it was good in all the States I applied to. The applications and fees are specific to each state. In Florida all I had to do was include a copy of my NY permit since that is where I came from and do the above stuff pay a fee and I got it in about 6 weeks. So if you think it an easy process I would tend to disagree.

What? It is NOT an easy process? You took the NRA Basic Course one time! You had to pay for background check and fingerprint fees in all the states. It cost you money but that was not a difficult thing as long as you had the money.

You did NOT have to take the NRA course each time nor demonstrate skill each time. You just had to fill out paperwork and pay a state fee.

As I stated before, any veteran with an honorable discharge can get the CCW by payng only for fingerprints and processing fee (around $125). Very easy process in Florida. Yes, I imagine there are the application forms and the computerized background check. No classes or shooting test required.

[dbussone]

Each time I moved and applied for a CCW I took the course again - to brush up and to retain an appropriate knowledge base. Rules do vary by state and the best way to update ones self is to take the current course. My wife has done the same, as have others I know. Not all of us are the drooling blatherers some would like to think.