[ducati1974]

The American car makers made their own bed. For years it has sickened me how the big 3 always advertised their cars & trucks: more power than..., more torque than..., more towing capacity than...bigger engine than... They just didn't get it- we wanted better gas mileage! While Toyota and Honda worked on hybrids the big 3 did nothing until recently to address the mpg desires of buyers. Now they have to play catch up. The resale values of American cars is pathetic compared to Toyota & Honda. When I buy my next car I will look at American cars but they must have comparable mileage, reliability, and features or I'll be back to Honda/ Toyota/Hyundai.

[billnterri]

I purchased my last american car in 1987. It was a new Chrysler New Yorker. After 3 months the problems began; would stop running when the temperature was above 90 degrees, dashboard would continually stop working, etc. Swore I'd never buy american again and I've stuck to that promise. We're on our 2nd Hyundai Sonata and we love it. Great value, great dependability, great service, etc. Will never buy american again.

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by memason

Which tolerances were tighter for foreign auto makers.... Chemical composition of the steel or the dimensional tolerances for thickness/hardness, etc...

Thanks....

Whenever we run steel for Toyota and Honda especially we normally shut down for 24 hours to change critical rolls and change rolling solutions .
We normally have inspectors from these companies on site when we run their product. The companies pay a higher premium for this product. Any steel that is rejected at our plant is bid on and bought by our American companies.
I am aware of mostly the dimensional tolerances. However it is NOT unusual to get a call from Toyota or Honda that when they stamp the steel there was a problem with the pliability or chemical composition. I know this happens less than once a year.They ship the steel back to us and who do you think is in line to buy it?

[memason]

Originally Posted by JUREK

Whenever we run steel for Toyota and Honda especially we normally shut down for 24 hours to change critical rolls and change rolling solutions .
We normally have inspectors from these companies on site when we run their product. The companies pay a higher premium for this product. Any steel that is rejected at our plant is bid on and bought by our American companies.
I am aware of mostly the dimensional tolerances. However it is NOT unusual to get a call from Toyota or Honda that when they stamp the steel there was a problem with the pliability or chemical composition. I know this happens less than once a year.They ship the steel back to us and who do you think is in line to buy it?

Jurek.... Thanks for the explanation!

Mike

[rubicon]

I have purchased Honda products since 1986. I have always had american made company cars. After a few years it became necessary to place a rug under the american made car to absorb the oil leaks. Not so with the Honda product. but even today the american car parked next to my Honda product has a rug under it.

I drove my Honda product for 11 years. I had intended to "buy American" despite consumer reports listing my first choice way above its competitors. I was about to buy a GM product when I read in the paper that the auto union which had been given 30% of the company during the bailout demanded the concessions they made be given back..Bear in mind that Obama ignored the rights of bondholders and stockholders and especially taxpayers. So I called the sales guy and told him that why. I purchased a Honda product that is made in Japan. Finally I have never needed more than routine maintenance on these Honda products and neither have my children who inherited them

By the way following my purchase I learned that the guys at the top of GM divided a $100 million in bonuses among them which told me that for sure I did the right thing as both management and employees are only interested in exploiting as much as they can of this once bailed out corporation . The morale of my story is if American car makers really want to succeed they need to take responsibility for their actions and to truly earn their pay by really building quality vehicles and stop trying to fool people by placing new shells on still inferior products

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by rubicon

I have purchased Honda products since 1986. I have always had american made company cars. After a few years it became necessary to place a rug under the american made car to absorb the oil leaks. Not so with the Honda product. but even today the american car parked next to my Honda product has a rug under it.

I drove my Honda product for 11 years. I had intended to "buy American" despite consumer reports listing my first choice way above its competitors. I was about to buy a GM product when I read in the paper that the auto union which had been given 30% of the company during the bailout demanded the concessions they made be given back..Bear in mind that Obama ignored the rights of bondholders and stockholders and especially taxpayers. So I called the sales guy and told him that why. I purchased a Honda product that is made in Japan. Finally I have never needed more than routine maintenance on these Honda products and neither have my children who inherited them

By the way following my purchase I learned that the guys at the top of GM divided a $100 million in bonuses among them which told me that for sure I did the right thing as both management and employees are only interested in exploiting as much as they can of this once bailed out corporation . The morale of my story is if American car makers really want to succeed they need to take responsibility for their actions and to truly earn their pay by really building quality vehicles and stop trying to fool people by placing new shells on still inferior products

In the Villages I have a 2000 Cadillac Seville with about 70,000 miles. I would not dare park it in anyone's driveway . I have the famous Northstar engine.
I go through one quart of oil every10 days weather I drive it or not. Yes I could get the leak fixed for close to $8000 . Also tranny needs attention. I prefer to add oil and for my family cars I drive Toyota , Scion and Lexus.

[rubicon]

JUREK it was a Cadillac SRX I was about to buy. I truly wish it were otherwise but the American car manufacturers need to get serious for the sake of American manufacturing. I do desire to buy American but they need to earn my trust.

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by rubicon

JUREK it was a Cadillac SRX I was about to buy. I truly wish it were otherwise but the American car manufacturers need to get serious for the sake of American manufacturing. I do desire to buy American but they need to earn my trust.

I must give credit where credit is due. My Cadillac probably has the best paint job of all my cars. But having supposedly one of GM's better cars and not expecting to get 100,000 miles is a shame. I have averaged 300,000 on every one of my foreign cars including a 3 cy Suzuki 1 litre. I can't believe the American manufactures can't do better. Look at what Hyundai has done over the last 10 years. I may give the American manufactures one more try but I would only look at Ford.

[2 Oldcrabs]

Buy assembled in the U.S. whether Foreign or American. They both make good cars (and junk). We support the merchant in TV, why not support the manufactures in the U.S. Your social security checks depend on jobs in this country.

[billethkid]

Chevrolet Suburbans...gas/oil/battery/tires were the only expenses to maintain.

I now have GMC Acadia with over 75,000 miles....so far just gas and oil expenses.

2 old crabs above has it right!!!!

btk

[Hal :-)]

Originally Posted by 2 Oldcrabs

... Your social security checks depend on jobs in this country ...

Self-centered for sure. But that aside. In Sept 1985, the U.S. became a debtor nation and not long after became the #1 debtor nation. We continued to roll along and haven't looked back since. It would be nice to turn the ship around but, unfortunately, it doesn't seem we have what it takes anymore. We must try to compete in the world. We can no longer be isolationist. Indeed, I don't understand why foreigners continue to take our worthless greenbacks. That may sound harsh, but consider that China holds $1.6 Trillion in treasuries. Let's hope they don't cash out all at once. I suppose we have a mutual interest at this point, China continues to finance our debt and we continue to buy their products. Unless we get smart, we'll be the big losers some day. For now, maybe keep shopping at Walmart.

[Russ_Boston]

I think the vast majority of cars we buy are at least assembled in this country.

Many GM cars are made with non-US parts anyway. And some, as mentioned, are assembled in Canada.

We need to learn the new economy or we are doomed. Being isolationist won't help (in my opinion).

[jeffy]

I worked on Honda motorcycles from 1976 to 1980 . In 1980 I was lucky enough to switched to Honda cars. In 1985 I started my own independent Honda auto service business. American Honda Motor Company made it possible for me and all the people that I employed to make a very good living.

In the 70s and 80s , american auto manufacturers made crap. You should all be thanking the foreign manufacturers and the americans that turned to MUCH higher quality cars for the US turning things around. The only reason the "big 3" are now making much higher quality is because so many people got fed up with their poor quality and the US companys had to do something. Can you imagine how bad their product would be now if we continued to buy their low quality cars and did not vote with our pocket books by buying foreign?

My father, a WWII vet , said he would never buy any "japanese" cars. After his brand new caddy needed 2 new transmissioins in its first 6 months, he finally switched to Lexus.

The US manufactures and their unions made their bed, and then they had to lay in it. When your workers are making $80 and hour in pay and benifits with no fear of being fired for poor quality work, what kind of product do you think they will make? You have to have incentive, innovation, fear of job loss if you dont perform, and produce quality or you will not survive.

It is NOT the lazy american worker that is the problem. It is poor management and labor unions. When Honda decided to make all their Accords that were shipped east of the Mississippi in Marysville Ohio, many Honda buyers were worried that quality would drop. I saw NO drop in quality in US made Accords and I heard surveys that showed the US Accord was 99% as well built as its Japanese counterpart. But Marysville had no union and great management. Workers there were able to make a great quality car.

I am retired now and look fondly at servicing such a high quality product. 90% of my business was just routine service and replacement of wear items (brakes, timing belts, etc ). American Honda Motor Company was first rate. They were willing to stand behind their cars. I remember when the 90-91 Accord had distributors that were failing after 8 years or more.. I replaced distributors on cars with 135000 miles that Honda paid for because those distributors should have lasted the life of the car.

Anyone that buys a Honda or Toyota ( including Acura and Lexus ) should expect 200000 miles on their engine and trans with no failures. I also see upstart Hyundai making great strides also. Are US manufacturers making a very good product now??? Yes, they have come a long way and are beginning to nip at the heels of Honda and Toyota. THEY HAD NO CHOICE. It was either greatly increase their quality to compete with the Japanese or die.

Many of you die hard "buy american" people will not like what i have said here. Take a minute and let it set in before you start the hate. Do you really think that US cars in the 70s and 80s and 90s were as good as Honda and Toyota? Do you think that the US would have as good as quality today if those unpatriotic americans had not bought foreign?? Those people that bought foreign have probably saved the US manufacturers in the long run.

jeff

[JUREK]

Originally Posted by jeffy

I worked on Honda motorcycles from 1976 to 1980 . In 1980 I was lucky enough to switched to Honda cars. In 1985 I started my own independent Honda auto service business. American Honda Motor Company made it possible for me and all the people that I employed to make a very good living.

In the 70s and 80s , american auto manufacturers made crap. You should all be thanking the foreign manufacturers and the americans that turned to MUCH higher quality cars for the US turning things around. The only reason the "big 3" are now making much higher quality is because so many people got fed up with their poor quality and the US companys had to do something. Can you imagine how bad their product would be now if we continued to buy their low quality cars and did not vote with our pocket books by buying foreign?

My father, a WWII vet , said he would never buy any "japanese" cars. After his brand new caddy needed 2 new transmissioins in its first 6 months, he finally switched to Lexus.

The US manufactures and their unions made their bed, and then they had to lay in it. When your workers are making $80 and hour in pay and benifits with no fear of being fired for poor quality work, what kind of product do you think they will make? You have to have incentive, innovation, fear of job loss if you dont perform, and produce quality or you will not survive.

It is NOT the lazy american worker that is the problem. It is poor management and labor unions. When Honda decided to make all their Accords that were shipped east of the Mississippi in Marysville Ohio, many Honda buyers were worried that quality would drop. I saw NO drop in quality in US made Accords and I heard surveys that showed the US Accord was 99% as well built as its Japanese counterpart. But Marysville had no union and great management. Workers there were able to make a great quality car.

I am retired now and look fondly at servicing such a high quality product. 90% of my business was just routine service and replacement of wear items (brakes, timing belts, etc ). American Honda Motor Company was first rate. They were willing to stand behind their cars. I remember when the 90-91 Accord had distributors that were failing after 8 years or more.. I replaced distributors on cars with 135000 miles that Honda paid for because those distributors should have lasted the life of the car.

Anyone that buys a Honda or Toyota ( including Acura and Lexus ) should expect 200000 miles on their engine and trans with no failures. I also see upstart Hyundai making great strides also. Are US manufacturers making a very good product now??? Yes, they have come a long way and are beginning to nip at the heels of Honda and Toyota. THEY HAD NO CHOICE. It was either greatly increase their quality to compete with the Japanese or die.

Many of you die hard "buy american" people will not like what i have said here. Take a minute and let it set in before you start the hate. Do you really think that US cars in the 70s and 80s and 90s were as good as Honda and Toyota? Do you think that the US would have as good as quality today if those unpatriotic americans had not bought foreign?? Those people that bought foreign have probably saved the US manufacturers in the long run.

jeff

Jeff:

You hit the nail on the head for sure. Any consumer should read the yearly April issue of Consumers Reports before they buy. Read the repair records on the American cars. Look at the cars to avoid.Yes the American companies have come a long way but they still have a long way to catch up.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by JUREK

Jeff:

You hit the nail on the head for sure. Any consumer should read the yearly April issue of Consumers Reports before they buy. Read the repair records on the American cars. Look at the cars to avoid.Yes the American companies have come a long way but they still have a long way to catch up.

Compare my experiences with two cars, one Japanese and one American. The American car was delivered to me with the hood sitting 2-3" lower than the cowl. When I complained, I was told,"Geez, they are made by human beings!" No offer to fix it. I had to go to the sale manager before someone would agree it needed to be fixed. Later that day I returned to pick up my car. Guess what I saw. They had bent the corners of the hood up to meet the cowl. I had to go back to the sales manager again to get approval to repair it correctly.

With the Japanese car, out of warranty, I took it in for routine maintenance. When I picked it up, the service manager asked to see me and asked if I could leave the car for a few days. He told me he noticed the nylon fabric inserts in my interior were degrading and the manufacturer was unhappy this was showing up in some of their cars. So they were replacing the upholstery at their expense with ones that did not have the nylon inserts. Two days later I got my car back with a brand new interior. Out of warranty.

The problem the American companies are having is that those who had bad experiences with their autos in the 70's and 80's and were treated like I was are going to be skeptical about their quality devotion. We remember the Pinto, the Vega, the K cars, and don't want to sink hard-earned money into similar junk. I remember years ago researching used cars in Consumer Reports and seeing the difference in reliability for foreign cars versus American cars 4-5 years after purchase. The difference was astounding. So they are going to have to address the perception of poorer quality before they can entice buyers of foreign brands back to their cars.