[Moderator]

Several posts have been removed as directed at member. Please discuss the topic and stop attacking the posters whose opinions differ from yours.

Moderator

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

It doesn't disallow them either.
"firearms as a "generic" term"? What the heck does that mean?
Steve

A think a visit to the scholarly debates on this might be in order....

One side is that they sale of guns may be regulated...

"• Over the years, the federal courts have been nearly unanimous
that the Second Amendment protects only the collective right of
the states to maintain militias, and not an individual’s right to own
guns; the DC ruling is an exception to the rule."



Of course with the DC ruling the other side says...

"• The DC court‘s decision reflects an emerging scholarly consensus
that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to
keep and bear arms."

There are points on both sides but if you did not even understand why the question, I believe more reading is in line for you

https://constitutioncenter.org/media...guncontrol.pdf

Amendment II - The United States Constitution

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No, the constitution doesn't explicitly allow semi-automatic firearms. It allows firearms, as a generic term. The government has the right, and the responsibility to determine which firearms are permitted and which are not. That is why AK-47s are not permitted to be bought or carried by civilians. AR-15 should be returned to the same category. It was in that category, and it was removed from it. And now, the *majority* of mass shootings in this country over the past few years have been commited using the AR-15.

They need to be made harder to acquire. They can't be made impossible to acquire, because there is always an illegal way around anything these days. A single mass shooting prevented by a difficult acquisition process, is lives saved.

The semi-auto version of the AK47 is still available and is being sold every day. I can't find any information supporting your statement that the majority of mass shooting are committed using the AR15. The best I can find is 25-30 percent of mass shootings were done with "assault rifles". The majority is done using a hand gun. As to the term "mass shootings" there is no officially designated number of victims needed to qualify as a mass shooting. Four is a number I've seen that is an unofficial number but depending on whichever organization and their agenda, the number of victims varies and can be as low as two victims. Included in these mass shooting stats are gang shootings of other gang members.
Banning something doesn't make it that difficult for a determined individual to obtain whatever they want. Cocaine, heroin, crack and all the other addictive drugs are available in the smallest towns and even grade school children are able to buy them. It wouldn't surprise me that there may be a few drug dealers here in the villages. When you ban something people want all it does is open up that market to organized crime and they will supply anything you want.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Oh please. I've been playing violent video and RPG games since Zork when I killed my first grue, and I haven't ever given a moment's thought to owning, let alone using, a firearm.

Millions of people play video games and RPGs and don't go out and kill people. There are also people who kill other people, who don't play violent video games. And you forgot the whole "oh they listen to death metal" rhetoric.

That's stuff and nonsense, propaganda created by the NRA to put the blame on anything except where it belongs: on lack of enforcement of existing gun laws, and gun laws that are not universal, thus allowing anyone to get a gun simply by crossing state lines.

SO, Just cause you’re mentally stable enough don’t me child care raised generations are who play video games all hours of the day and night can’t figure out reality.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

The semi-auto version of the AK47 is still available and is being sold every day. I can't find any information supporting your statement that the majority of mass shooting are committed using the AR15. The best I can find is 25-30 percent of mass shootings were done with "assault rifles". The majority is done using a hand gun. As to the term "mass shootings" there is no officially designated number of victims needed to qualify as a mass shooting. Four is a number I've seen that is an unofficial number but depending on whichever organization and their agenda, the number of victims varies and can be as low as two victims. Included in these mass shooting stats are gang shootings of other gang members.
Banning something doesn't make it that difficult for a determined individual to obtain whatever they want. Cocaine, heroin, crack and all the other addictive drugs are available in the smallest towns and even grade school children are able to buy them. It wouldn't surprise me that there may be a few drug dealers here in the villages. When you ban something people want all it does is open up that market to organized crime and they will supply anything you want.

You’re right fully automatic AK47s are not allowed without special permits, but there are plenty of knock offs in array of calibers that are not fully automatic, just like the AR15 is not M16. Law does not allow fully automatic assault military weapons without special permit. All other fall in firearm class where it be single shot, pump, lever, bolt, or semi-automatic delivery

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

It very well may be. But guns have never really been hard to get. Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country and they had 43 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend. But no outcry about that. As Bucco eluded, we've pretty much become numb to the violence.

In fact, guns have never been more difficult to obtain. We have never in our history had more restrictive or as many gun laws. The fact is that laws don't prevent crimes. Laws define crimes and provide punishment for those that are caught.

Why aren't those calling for more laws restricting guns simply calling for more laws restricting people from killing one another? The answer is that we already have enough laws that prohibit us from murdering one another and more laws won't prevent that.

Laws preventing citizens from owning semi automatic handguns like the ones used in this shooting will only take semi automatics out of the hands of good law abiding people. Unless we got rid of all guns in this country, people will get them illegally. Does anyone believe that feasible to get rid of all guns? Even if we did, does anyone think that guns wouldn't be brought in illegally?

London has banned citizens from owning guns and knife attacks have been on the rise. Now they are considering banning knives. I guess they'll be cutting up their meat pies with a fork.

Laws don't prevent crimes. Fewer guns in the hands of good law abiding citizens will only mean more guns, proportionally in the hands of criminals.

Limiting good law abiding citizens to revolvers will mean that semi autos will only be available on the black market so that only criminals will have them.

More laws are not the answer.

[Bucco]

Just for information sake....

"In 2011, the U.K. had 0.07 gun homicides for every 100,000 people; the U.S., by contrast, had 3 gun homicides for every 100,000. In 2009 there were 138 gun deaths in the U.K, where there are 6.7 firearms for every 100 people.

One reason contributing to this is the U.K.'s strict gun laws. According to an English rifle and gun club legal center, any person possessing a firearm in the U.K. must posses a Shotgun Certificate or a Firearm Certificate.

Machine guns, pepper spray, semi-automatic, and pump-action rifles, and any firearm that has a barrel less than 30 centimeters in length are prohibited.

The only firearms that can be owned legally are shotguns, black powder weapons, manually-loaded cartridge pistols and manually-loaded center-fire rifles, all termed "Section 1" firearms.

To gain a firearm certificate, applicants must be over age 14, and must demonstrate they have satisfactory security and "good reason" to own a rifle. Applicants must declare all criminal convictions and name two references to support the application. Applications must be renewed every five years.

The requirements are largely the same for a shotgun certificate, although the applicant doesn't need two references, only one counter-signatory — and there is no minimum age."

These Laws Are The Reason Canada, Australia, Japan And The UK Have Such Low Gun Homicide Rates - Business Insider

These are factual laws. Now, if you wish, visit YOUTUBE, and you will be treated to propaganda insisting the opposite. I have seen then. They are full of half truths, easily debunked if you want.

[dewilson58]

The toughest gun laws in the USA are in Illinois, How's that working out for Chicago??

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

The toughest gun laws in the USA are in Illinois, How's that working out for Chicago??

Actually Illinois is ranked #9.
But whatever fits the narrative.

10 states with the strictest gun laws | Deseret News



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Just for information sake....

"In 2011, the U.K. had 0.07 gun homicides for every 100,000 people; the U.S., by contrast, had 3 gun homicides for every 100,000. In 2009 there were 138 gun deaths in the U.K, where there are 6.7 firearms for every 100 people.

One reason contributing to this is the U.K.'s strict gun laws. According to an English rifle and gun club legal center, any person possessing a firearm in the U.K. must posses a Shotgun Certificate or a Firearm Certificate.

Machine guns, pepper spray, semi-automatic, and pump-action rifles, and any firearm that has a barrel less than 30 centimeters in length are prohibited.

The only firearms that can be owned legally are shotguns, black powder weapons, manually-loaded cartridge pistols and manually-loaded center-fire rifles, all termed "Section 1" firearms.

To gain a firearm certificate, applicants must be over age 14, and must demonstrate they have satisfactory security and "good reason" to own a rifle. Applicants must declare all criminal convictions and name two references to support the application. Applications must be renewed every five years.

The requirements are largely the same for a shotgun certificate, although the applicant doesn't need two references, only one counter-signatory — and there is no minimum age."

These Laws Are The Reason Canada, Australia, Japan And The UK Have Such Low Gun Homicide Rates - Business Insider

These are factual laws. Now, if you wish, visit YOUTUBE, and you will be treated to propaganda insisting the opposite. I have seen then. They are full of half truths, easily debunked if you want.

Thanks for the link...and facts.

It is refreshing to see them.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Actually Illinois is ranked #9.
But whatever fits the narrative.

10 states with the strictest gun laws | Deseret News



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Old information, but even if it is #9 today.........say point: Tough gun laws is not helping Chicago shootings.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Old information, but even if it is #9 today.........say point: Tough gun laws is not helping Chicago shootings.

The topic was NOT Chicago.

Why do people insist on using lies, and for the most part known lies to try to bolster an argument. Same thing on schools....telling lies about Israel. What do people get out of standing behind and supporting lies.

It would greatly irritate me, if I supported a group who told me lies, and assume I am so stupid that I cannot see through them, and then to repeat lies.

What has happened. We used to learn from each other in this world....now we trash and demean others who show the way instead of learning, we tell lies about them

There are valid points to be made......why not use the nes that are true.

Yes.....WE can learn from others, and as we slip in pretty much every international ranking there is, we stand tall and use lies to demean those who are succeeding.

I stay out of this discussion pretty much, but when I read...it's not guns, it's video games, or when I read more lying about others to "support" a position, it's difficult any more to remain silent.

The answers are there.....some just bury their head and refuse to even discuss it. Would it not be great to at least hear open public discussion on the two (I think it's two..at least one) bills already passed by one house and buried never to be discussed or voted on.

Why ?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Thanks for the link...and facts.

It is refreshing to see them.

I simply get frustrated. I read other threads that speak to advice given to children.

Would you, or have you ever told your children....follow and support a total lie, as long as it services you ?

I sure hope not

[Moderator]

The topic was the mass workplace shooting in Virginia Beach. As with many of these threads, it has devolved into a gun control discussion with the same players espousing the same arguments.

RIP to the victims in Va. Beach.

Thread closed.