[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Right now today with current technology most E-vehicles HAVE RANGE ANXIETY only in the minds of the uninformed. Especially for older people the range is greater than their capacity to drive without stopping overnight. Then they can simply charge up at a motel. Even during Hurricane IAN, many people had to wait in line to get GAS. And I remember the 1974 gas shortages. I rode my bicycle to work a lot. It would have been better in 1974 to have an E-vehicle and a solar cell generator.
...... This RANGE ANXIETY business is sort of a "straw man" argument that lacks logic!

"Simply charge up at a motel"?

You must not get out much...

Where are these mythical motels with all of these charging stations?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Nobody IS "mandating" people switch over from ICE vehicles to E-vehicles. California is creating a "carrot, not a stick" about legislation for about 2035. They will NOT stop (or imprison) anyone (or any Luddite) that PREFERS to keep buying used cars or driving 1965 VW Bettles even. We will ALL BE long DEAD and people in Fl. will STILL be driving ICE vehicles. But, at least, there will be maybe 20% to 40% fewer of them and hopefully better and less polluting Electrical generating power plants like new generation Nuclear types.

No, CA is MANDATING that NO NEW ICE vehicles be allowed to be sold in the state...

"In August 2022, California Governor Gavin Newsom approved a rule that all new cars sold in the state by 2035 would need to have zero emissions, i.e. be completely electric..."

That's not a carrot... That's a club...

[tuccillo]

Internal combustion engines are extremely reliable. Gasoline engines in cars can easily go 300K miles if maintained. Diesel engines in container ships can go 100K hours between overhauls. Using terms like "flailing" exposes your ignorance and prejudice. Diesel engines (which have pistons) will not be replaced anytime soon in many areas of transportation, such as container ships. EVs will have a roll in the areas where they make the most sense; personal transportation. I can only speak for me but out accelerating someone at a stop light is not something I ever care to do. Very childish.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Another seldom mentioned advantage of E-vehicle is that they will need MUCH less maintenance compared to ICE vehicles. A person's electrical battery drill and electrical washing motor spin in a circle as opposed to PISTONS flailing up one way and then reversing and flailing in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION. It is just intuitively LOGICAL as to which one is going to be MORE RELIABLE. And E-vehicle has a lower center of gravity, which has INCREDIBLE advantages and also battery power vehicles have MUCH GREATER torque. A 50K Tesla can beat a 100K Corvette from zero to at least 50 MPH, maybe higher. Which is most US city speed limits. So basically, if you want to kick Butt from a stop light, get an E-vehicle.

[MorTech]

Ummm, mining is done with huge machines that run on hydrocarbons...not with little black children with shovels. This is not 1923. Why do you even bother with the lying corporate press? You can't figure out that they are screwing with you?

"The purpose of the mass media and popular culture is to make you stupid, afraid and angry" - Operation Mockingbird.

Lithium battery technology is only being improved on the margins mostly with better manufacturing technology. The volumetric and gravimetric energy density is about maxed out for safety, durability and reliability. Tesla took 9 years to develop a next-gen battery and only managed a bigger cell that is tabless. That should tell you something.

You recycle the battery pack just like anything else...You freeze it with liquid nitrogen and then pulverize it.

[Byte1]

I'm not going to worry about owning an EV because by the time they are ready for prime time and can REALLY compete with ICE vehicles, I will be ashes. I am not about to take a long trip and make it longer by sitting at a charging station for 20 mins. at a time while my ICE can be filled and back on the road in 5 mins. And it is only 20 mins if you don't have to stand in line behind vehicles taking their 20mins. If I want to travel slower, I can get a horse and buggy and really conserve on fuel. There's plenty of grass on the side of the road.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I'm not going to worry about owning an EV because by the time they are ready for prime time and can REALLY compete with ICE vehicles, I will be ashes. I am not about to take a long trip and make it longer by sitting at a charging station for 20 mins. at a time while my ICE can be filled and back on the road in 5 mins. And it is only 20 mins if you don't have to stand in line behind vehicles taking their 20mins. If I want to travel slower, I can get a horse and buggy and really conserve on fuel. There's plenty of grass on the side of the road.

Sorry, Byte, no horses. Remember, there is the wicked methane gas.

[ithos]

I went on the Wikipedia page and read this:

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
This article includes a list of general references, but it lacks sufficient corresponding inline citations. (October 2016)
This article needs additional citations for verification. (October 2016)

I did further google searches and there many upbeat articles but did not the get the impression that any viable battery will be on the market anytime soon. And they have been working on it since the 70's. But if you have Stanford and MIT working on it I suspect eventually they will get something to to market.

I was hoping to find out more information regarding toxicity and recycling but had no luck. Energy density is much better but it would be great if they solved the pollution problem as well.

I did come across another type of battery that supposed to be in production next year that maybe a good storage option for wind and solar projects.

Lithium-ion only provides approximately four hours of storage, whereas iron-air could deliver up to 100 hours—

Iron Air Battery: How It Works and Why It Could Change Energy

I hope one of these ideas pan out and don't end up fizzling like cold fusion or thorium reactors.

[Michael G.]

Originally Posted by ithos

I hope one of these ideas pan out and don't end up fizzling like cold fusion or thorium reactors.

I also wish the future will promising so people that need to make future vehicle
purchase can make the right choice instead shelling out thousands only to be disappointed.

[pbernard]

I now own 2 Teslas and just love them. No more gas, oil changes, spark plugs, mufflers, exhaust, timing belts… oh..and I’ll likely never need a brake job.
Keep on with your smoke, noxious fume cars. Electric is the future and my Teslas are damn fast.

[Battlebasset]

Originally Posted by pbernard

I now own 2 Teslas and just love them. No more gas, oil changes, spark plugs, mufflers, exhaust, timing belts… oh..and I’ll likely never need a brake job.
Keep on with your smoke, noxious fume cars. Electric is the future and my Teslas are damn fast.

If you own two Teslas then you must have quite a bit of money. And good for you, I am definitely not one of those that hates wealth. I've done pretty good myself, and earned every dollar I have. And you have every right to spend your money as you see fit.

But Tesla EV is in a category by itself. They are the gold standard. Unfortunately, the average Joe is going to be left with something that is quite a bit below that, as that is all they will be able to afford. And those are also the used EVs that the working poor will be looking to purchase. When you consider that the average age of a used car now for that group is about 12 years, they will be looking at EVs that unless the technology vastly improves are going to have degraded battery range to the point that replacement is needed.

In addition, they will not be able to afford at-home 220V chargers. Some/most won't even have a garage. They will be totally reliant on public chargers and the time it takes to charge with those.

A transportation economy that moves primarily to EV is going to impact most heavily those that can least afford it. EV IMO is a plaything for the more well-off in our society, not unlike my lithium ion golf cart, and will be for the foreseeable future.

[tuccillo]

I don't believe that it is reasonable to assume that used EVs would need a battery replacement. There are Teslas running around with 300K miles and relatively low amounts of range degradation. Tesla is talking about million mile battery packs. There have been EVs, such as the early Nissan Leafs, that had poorly engineered battery thermal management systems that led to early battery failure. I believe we are beyond that.

Regarding home charging, Level 2 typically requires a NEMA 14-50 outlet. These can be installed for about $500. For those who can't charge at home, I believe you will find charging at work will become more common and more public chargers will become available as more EVs are sold. I wouldn't assume anything will stay static - it never does.

The transition to EVs will take 20 years, or more (say, arbitrarily, 90% of the 16 million new cars, or whatever the number is in 20 years, sold in the US are EV) . Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an EV. The prices will continue to drop. A new Tesla Model Y is currently at $55K which is just above the average new car price. I think you will find many new EVs becoming available over the next 5 years that are less than or comparable in price to new gas cars of the same class. There is always going to be a part of society that will only be able to afford used cars. They may very well find that used EVs are comparable or perhaps even better than used gas cars. If you can charge at home, the cost per mile for "fuel" will be less with an EV.

Originally Posted by Battlebasset

If you own two Teslas then you must have quite a bit of money. And good for you, I am definitely not one of those that hates wealth. I've done pretty good myself, and earned every dollar I have. And you have every right to spend your money as you see fit.

But Tesla EV is in a category by itself. They are the gold standard. Unfortunately, the average Joe is going to be left with something that is quite a bit below that, as that is all they will be able to afford. And those are also the used EVs that the working poor will be looking to purchase. When you consider that the average age of a used car now for that group is about 12 years, they will be looking at EVs that unless the technology vastly improves are going to have degraded battery range to the point that replacement is needed.

In addition, they will not be able to afford at-home 220V chargers. Some/most won't even have a garage. They will be totally reliant on public chargers and the time it takes to charge with those.

A transportation economy that moves primarily to EV is going to impact most heavily those that can least afford it. EV IMO is a plaything for the more well-off in our society, not unlike my lithium ion golf cart, and will be for the foreseeable future.

[TraceJustice]

Lithium is about to be a thing of the past. Sodium batteries coming in hot.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by pbernard

I now own 2 Teslas and just love them. No more gas, oil changes, spark plugs, mufflers, exhaust, timing belts… oh..and I’ll likely never need a brake job.
Keep on with your smoke, noxious fume cars. Electric is the future and my Teslas are damn fast.

Glad you like them. Does this mean you’ll never have a flat tire, will only keep the cars a short time so brakes aren’t an item, will never have to wait for the cars to charge, never have an issue finding a working charging station and so forth.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by TraceJustice

Lithium is about to be a thing of the past. Sodium batteries coming in hot.

Until Dilithium Crystal technology can be developed.

[Flyers999]

Here’s my uninformed opinion of using an EV for environmental reasons. Please, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. ( I hope I am.)

When you use any electrical vehicle (EV), you are using energy powered by the grid which is powered by mostly fossil fuels. Only 12% of our electrical power stations use renewable sources (geothermal, solar, wind, biomass waste, biofuels and wood) the rest use fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum) with 8% nuclear. And virtually all of the new U.S. power stations that have come online in the past 20 years are natural gas. Most of the country’s natural gas supply is produced by fracking. The greenhouse gas footprint of fracked natural gas is actually worse than coal and oil because methane traps more heat in the atmosphere. Fracking also pollutes the fresh drinkable groundwater where it is produced. We might need that someday.

EVs do help densely populated cities—especially cities where air pollution is a problem, such as LA. But not in the Villages, where we are on a peninsula with the wind from the ocean/gulf continually blowing.

So wouldn’t the environment be better off with each of us using small individual quantities of fossil fuels to power our auto and heat our homes/stoves, rather than have these fuels run our power stations that convert the fossil fuels to electricity, which in turn, get converted back into heat or motion? To me it looks like a middleman doing an extra energy conversion. There has to be a loss whenever energy is converted from one format to another.

Thanks for listening.