[DAWN MARIE]

No...I'm not going on emotion without having anything to back it up with. I know 2+2=4 even if I feel it would be better to say that 2+2=5.

Obviously truth always comes to the top eventually. In this case the boy came forward and admitted it wasn't true. I just didn't want people to waste their money and hopes on something that was obviously not true. I wasn't guessing it wasn't true. I knew it can't be true. It didn't make sense and had inconsistencies. It may take a while but truth always will rise to the top. Eventually.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

They did not or would not accept it because they chose to believe how they felt instead. That's why I lost these "friends."

Perhaps they had an opinion that differed from yours.
Perhaps they believed that there is more than one way to God.
That does not make them wrong and you right.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

Yes, all untrue. My son is also a neuro Scientist. He has his Ph.D and he will tell you the same thing.

If you believe, as I do, the real truth book is the Word of God, the bible, you would see the contradictions. Paul wrote about an experience after being stoned almost to death and said he was not permitted to write about such things. If Paul, who wrote almost the whole NT in the first century was not permitted to speak why should we listen to these others? And we don't need a man made profit selling book telling us his story of the "Proof of Heaven" when we've been told that thru the Scriptures which have stood the test of time. If you really want the "genuine" article read the Scriptures. All the others are imitations of the real thing.

You and one other person (in your family, I might add) don't believe it, so you can state unequivocally that it's across the board not true???

I happen to be very good friends with someone who died on the operating table. She would tell you it's true, but she doesn't like to talk about it publicly. My husband worked with a man who died from allergy shock and came back to life, who would recount a similar experience.

Neither one of these people has ever tried to gain financially or otherwise from their experience.

[DougB]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

Yes, all untrue. My son is also a neuro Scientist. He has his Ph.D and he will tell you the same thing.

If you believe, as I do, the real truth book is the Word of God, the bible, you would see the contradictions. Paul wrote about an experience after being stoned almost to death and said he was not permitted to write about such things..........

Paul WROTE about an experience, but said he was not able to WRITE about it. Uh, I think you lost me there?

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by coralway

PT Barnum was right ..............

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Just trying to get the facts, ma'am.

No problem with what anyone said. particularly YOU, CFrance.. I just know how PERSONAL and meaningful religion is to many. There isn't any way to prove anyone is right or wrong.

Just not yet easy with this kind of talk. It's just ME. AND believe me, I am NOT a good example of a good church person.

[onslowe]

Originally Posted by DougB

Paul WROTE about an experience, but said he was not able to WRITE about it. Uh, I think you lost me there?

Kudos! The ability to pick on the errors of others is an admirable trait, and I'm sure well motivated and intentioned. Lends a lot to the thread at the same time as well as promoting civility.

Maybe, just maybe, Dawnmarie was referring to 2 Corinthians 12. Oh, in the Bible, Epistles of St Paul….

[Loudoll]

Originally Posted by quirky3

This was widely published today. Hopefully some good came of it anyway.

‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled - The Washington Post

The mother, Beth Malarkey states that Alex “has not received monies from the book nor have a majority of his needs been funded by it.”
The Post goes on to say the deal was made not with Alex but with Kevin, the father.
To me, that is just double talk saying Alex didn't profit! Kevin has said nothing apparently but we know that someone profited besides the book sellers. Maybe Alex pulled the plug because his dad was not sharing the money. But I would prefer to believe the boy simply repented.

[senior citizen]

There are over 100 books (or more) on the subject of life after death, of which I have read many over my lifetime..........it's definitely a fascinating subject which never grows old.

I especially pay attention to the "returns" of physicians such as those listed below........as so many doctors are trained to think scientifically; not spiritually. Thus, their accounts I found even more awesome & amazing. Great reads.

However, only when someone has their own true spiritual experience, will they then believe.

I don't like to call it "religious experience" as so many of those are fanatical. Fanatics are not my favorite types of folks as I've always felt that true spirituality should run quietly & deeply within oneself, but reflects outwardly when one truly tries to follow their own highest personal spiritual beliefs.

When one has a truly spiritual awakening..........they will know it. For sure.

When one has seen heaven, and lived to tell about it, I try to accept that it is their reality written down to share this extraordinary experience with others.

I, myself, do most definitely BELIEVE that the soul lives on. I know it.

Amazon.com carries a very long list of "past life experience" and "life after death" books on their website.........

I've read most of them over the years & retain an open mind.........one can always weed out the charlatans from those who truly believe they have been to heaven during a near death experience.

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife (Kindle Edition)

A SCIENTIST’S CASE FOR THE AFTERLIFE
Dr. Eban Alexander III M.D.

"Near-death experiences, or NDEs, are controversial. Thousands of people have had them, but many in the scientific community have argued that they are impossible. Dr. Eben Alexander was one of those people. "

"A highly trained neurosurgeon who had operated on thousands of brains in the course of his career, Alexander knew that what people of faith call the “soul” is really a product of brain chemistry. NDEs, he would have been the first to explain, might feel real to the people having them, but in truth they are simply fantasies produced by brains under extreme stress."

"Then came the day when Dr. Alexander’s own brain was attacked by an extremely rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human— shut down completely. For seven days Alexander lay in a hospital bed in a deep coma. Then, as his doctors weighed the possibility of stopping treatment, Alexander’s eyes popped open. He had come back. "

"Alexander’s recovery is by all accounts a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself."

"This story sounds like the wild and wonderful imaginings of a skilled fantasy writer. But it is not fantasy. Before Alexander underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. That difficulty with belief created an empty space that no professional triumph could erase. Today he is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition. "

"This story would be remarkable no matter who it happened to. That it happened to Dr. Alexander makes it revolutionary. No scientist or person of faith will be able to ignore it. Reading it will change your life."


To Heaven and Back: A Doctor's Extraordinary Account of Her Death, Heaven, Angels, and Life Again: A True Story (Kindle Edition)

A kayak accident during a South American adventure takes one woman to heaven — where she experienced God’s peace, joy, and angels — and back to life again.

Dr. Mary C. Neal, Author

"In 1999 in the Los Rios region of southern Chile, orthopedic surgeon, devoted wife, and loving mother Dr. Mary Neal drowned in a kayak accident. While cascading down a waterfall, her kayak became pinned at the bottom and she was immediately and completely submerged. Despite the rescue efforts of her companions, Mary was underwater for too long, and as a result, died."

"To Heaven and Back is Mary’s remarkable story of her life’s spiritual journey and what happened as she moved from life to death to eternal life, and back again. Detailing her feelings and surroundings in heaven, her communication with angels, and her deep sense of sadness when she realized it wasn’t her time, Mary shares the captivating experience of her modern-day miracle. "

"Mary’s life has been forever changed by her newfound understanding of her purpose on earth, her awareness of God, her closer relationship with Jesus, and her personal spiritual journey suddenly enhanced by a first-hand experience in heaven. To Heaven and Back will reacquaint you with the hope, wonder, and promise of heaven, while enriching you own faith and walk with God."

************************************************** ***********
For non Christians & Christians alike, Dr. Deepak Chopra's LIFE AFTER DEATH book is also thought provoking........and insightful.

"Deepak Chopra’s Life After Death: The Burden of Proof is the number 10 most popular near-death experience book, according to Amazon’s Sales Rankings. In Life After Death, “Chopra draws on cutting-edge scientific discoveries and the great wisdom traditions to provide a map of the afterlife. He tells us there is abundant evidence that ‘the world beyond’ is not separated from this world by an impassable wall; in fact, a single reality embraces all worlds, all times and places.”

How does this book relate to near-death experiences? In this book, Chopra reviews accounts of near-death experiences and discusses how diverse societies like Tibet and modern America have similar near-death accounts."

Here are some other comments and reviews:
“What Deepak Chopra gives us in this intensive book is many ways to look at life and consciousness, and the seen and unseen universe, and then decide for ourselves what feels right; what makes sense. My highest recommendation for the serious truth seeker.”
************************************************** ***********
When our bible was written, the authors who penned the words had no modern scientific or medical knowledge, or frame of reference...........while our present day physicians do "understand" what happens at the time of one's passing over..........from the physical body to the ethereal body.......

No matter what one's belief system is, all of these books are thought provoking & mind opening.

We'll all know when we cross over.....

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by onslowe

Kudos! The ability to pick on the errors of others is an admirable trait, and I'm sure well motivated and intentioned. Lends a lot to the thread at the same time as well as promoting civility.

Maybe, just maybe, Dawnmarie was referring to 2 Corinthians 12. Oh, in the Bible, Epistles of St Paul….

So... Is this a yea or a nay to what DougB said?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by CFrance

So... Is this a yea or a nay to what DougB said?

What did he say? When people write things on here I only read the first couple of sentences. I think I have ADD. or maybe that is subtract.

[Villages PL]

It's interesting how some people think they can determine true (heaven) stories from those that are untrue. For example, they think those that are untrue are the ones where the person stands to make a financial gain. Or, they think those stories that are true are told by doctors or those who never tried to get any recognition.

But notice that ALL story tellers have something in common. They all stand to gain something in one way or another. It just happens to be something different for each person.

For some the reward may be money and/or fame. For others it may simply be a delusion that reinforces their much needed faith. The reward for them is the reassurance that "Heaven Is For Real".

[blueash]

Serious question:
No one who is dead can come back. It is impossible. Dead is dead. So what we are considering is near death experiences. It doesn't matter that some doctor or EMT says you were dead, you were not. Thus all reports are of people who were near death, likely with minimal or absent heart beat and diminished CNS function and diminished or absent oxygenation to the brain.

As they were not dead, and if I understand religious dogma correctly, your soul does not leave your body until you are dead, is this not a completely impossible situation for a soul to leave a living person? Do you believe the soul leaves before death? How is that decision made? Does a soul decide to go or does a deity command it to depart?

[KayakerNC]

The Bible says, “For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6).

Seems like Heavenly Tourism is not biblical.

[Gerald]

if you want to believe in something you would not care what the book says true or not.

Each person should take what they believe into their heart.
That is where it belongs.
Not trying to tell others that their beliefs are wrong or right.