[graciegirl]

I have heard that Casey wanted to have an abortion and her mother wouldn't hear of it.

You would have to have the wisdom of Solomon to know what really happened.

I get a sense that they are both screwed up, but Casey most of all.

Who is the father of that child and does it matter??

[jebartle]

Gather there was an altercation regarding Casey stealing $40,000 from her grandparents life savings.....Wonder when this will come out?

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by Freeda

Casey will most definitely have to testify; both as to the drowning and as to the sexual abuse. Unless there are witnesses who saw these things happen, who will testify to their having occurred, which I highly doubt, there is no other way she can prove these two things. Having claimed these two facts in his opening, there will have to be evidence of them; and Casey will presumably be the only person (since George denied them both) who will have knowledge of them.

Here are some other thoughts I have; and I seem to have many about this case, which I think is very interesting, in large part because it is so tragic. I've seen only excerpted testimony because we are traveling, but this is my take so far.

George testified that he smelled the unmistakeable smell of a corpse in the trunk of Casey's car when he went to the tow lot to pick up the car, and that at the time he feared that it could mean that either Casey or Caylee were in the trunk (since both of them, he claims, were, in his mind, 'missing' at that time). Then, he and the tow lot manager (who also testified as to having smelled the odor of a human corpse in the trunk), opened the trunk, and only a bag of trash was in there; nevertheless, the human corpse smell was, he says, was present and unmistakeable.

Still, since George believed (as an experienced police detective who, he testified, had smelled that odor before) that the smell in the trunk was that of a human corpse, why, if he had no culpability, as he claims, in the coverup of Caylee's death, and if he were truly concerned about the smell possibly being related to his (he claims) then-'missing' daughter and granddaughter, wouldn't he want to have the police inspect the trunk and document the presence of the smell BEFORE taking the car to his home from the tow lot?

In other words, (1) not only is it odd that he wasn't shocked enough by the smell of what he himself believed was from a human corpse having been in the trunk (at a time when his daughter and granddaughter were both supposedly 'missing') to have immediately called the police to investigate it; but also (2) by taking the car to his home, he left open the possibility that it could later be claimed that the smell of a human corpse in the trunk had occurred from a body being placed in the car AFTER he had retaken possession of the car - and, thus, potentially somehow implicating himself (in other words, I wouldn't want to risk even a slight possibility of having to explain how the smell of a human corpse got into a car that is in my possession - would you?)

This suggests to me that George took the car home with the intention of trying to somehow get rid of the smell because he realized it was from Caylee's body having been in the trunk, and he didn't want that to be detected - (and that can only mean that he was involved in, and, in denying it, lied about, a coverup -which further means nothing else that he testified to can be believed; and as mentioned in a post above, I too find much of George's demeanor not credible). However, Cindy detected the odor and called 911 and reported the smell coming from the trunk before he could do that. I think that at that point, George knew his number was up, and that he then was forced to reinvent his conduct to place the blame for what had been made (though falsely; by his and Casey's conduct) to look like a murder solely on Casey in order to hide his own involvement. I think that it was he, also, who did the computer searches (what I don't know is whether it was possible for the police to determine when the computer searches were done - and, if so, what dates they were found to have been done - the evidence on this will be very interesting), during this time frame, to frame Casey with this evidence, to make it appear that she had researched methods of causing death; again, in a desperate attempt to avoid any fingers being pointed to him, since he realized that the coverup was unraveling, and that the police investigation which he knew would ensue would likely conclude that Caylee had been murdered by someone - since that is what he and Casey had, through their conduct, including, among many other things (such as having applied the duct tape to the remains), Casey's having for some period of time, kept Caylee's remains in Casey's car trunk, made it appear had occurred (even though, ironically, the death had, in fact, actually been an accidental drowning).

All of Casey's numerous lies to her friends and mother could be evidence of covering up her having murdered Caylee, as the prosecution claims, but are equally totally consistent with Casey's defense that they (Casey and her father) were (though poorly conceived, and extremely ineptly and stupidly carried out) trying to cover up fact that Caylee had drowned (in order to, crazy as it may sound, avoid blame and prosecution of Casey for criminal neglect, which Casey will say her father had convinced her would occur) by building a scenario of Caylee being with a (now known to be nonexistent) nanny who (they hoped) would eventually be believed to have abducted (and perhaps murdered) Caylee.

Preposterous? Maybe; but some of George's conduct just doesn't fly, as questioned above; and it just may cause the needed reasonable doubt in at least one juror. These are just some thoughts based on the trial to date; it all remains to be seen.

Some comments I have heard in the media, etc., have referred to the drowning and sexual abuse theories having been 'thought up' by Attorney Baez. However, the facts that an attorney advances in a case must come from the client. The attorney, just as he cannot testify, also cannot concoct fictional favorable factual scenarios and then school the client to testify thereto; I do not believe that any attorney would risk losing their bar license, plus prosecution, by doing this. It is his job to help his client prove what she claims occurred that can provide a defense to the charges against her.

Freeda, looks like you and I have many of the same thoughts.

One of the biggest questions I have is concerning the defense's request for a mistrial based on the prosecution's attempt to show lack of remorse. Judge Perry denied the motion and said that they were right if that is what the prosecution was doing, but that they were just trying to show her lack of conscience. Many of the media talking about the trial have pointed out in some of their statements that the prosecution is trying to show the jury her lack of remorse and have said nothing about conscience.

Questions: If seasoned reporters (some of which are/have been lawyers themselves) are interpreting the prosecution's line of questioning as showing remorse, how is a jury made up of lay people not going to think the same thing? Will the judge explain to them the difference and tell them that they cannot consider any of the testimony in this phase of the trial as lack of remorse? If not, will they know the difference? The jury was not present for his explanation when he denied the motion.

I have watched this every day so far and there are so many inconsistencies (for lack of a better word), it is unreal....such as:

George testified on the first day he was on the stand that on the 16th of June, supposedly the last day he saw Caylee, he asked Caylee where she was going and she said, "Zanny's".

Question: If Zanny is a figment of Casey's imagination, where did that come from?

Question: Why has no one asked any of those testifying if they had ever heard Caylee talk about Zanny? My kids talked constantly about their sitter.

Question: If George was familiar with the smell and police procedures, why didn't he call the police?

He testified that he drove the car home and then went to work.

Everytime Baez asked him if the smell was stronger when he opened the trunk than it was when he first opened the driver's door, he kept saying that all he saw in the trunk was a bag of garbage. About the 4th time, Baez told him that he didn't ask what he saw but that he had asked if the smell was stronger. George finally said, "No", chewing Baez out at the same time for continuing to ask him, and once again added that he had already told him four times that all he saw was a bag of garbage.

Question: How could Cindy recall first and last names so well of supposed friends of Casey's after being told only one time who they were but couldn't recall some exact events? Many of these names were in her testimony about the supposed trip to Tampa and Zanny's car wreck. Many of us have problems relating names (especially first and last of people we have personally met, sometimes on numerous occasions). Much too detailed to be very credible.

Cindy seems to call all the shots in the family and Casey is about the only one that would ever cross her. The man at the tow lot testified as to how much George kept apologizing to him for Cindy's beratings.

Question: Why didn't George just tell her to back off?

George was asked about when he was told Casey was pregnant. They asked him about who the father was. His reply was, "I don't know...I didn't ask." Whaat? Most fathers I know would not simply ask, they would demand to know. My guess is (and it is just a guess) that Cindy was in control there, too.

I don't buy their story of drowning and a cover up as presented, yet. I have thought all along that she probably drowned or accidentally died some other way...not premeditated murder, at least not from what I've heard so far. As for the "secret", Lee alluded to family secrets at Caylee's eulogy that he delivered, which apparently didn't raise any flags then.

One big mystery to me is how she has been sitting in jail all this time and not broken. When she reacts (and it's been this way all along), she faking it or guilty. When she has had no reaction, she's hard or cold or totally uncaring.

It was kinda funny when the prosecution was trying to get some AOL IM's in to show motive, the judge said that if motive was what they were after it looked to him like she should have been planning to kill her parents. He quickly told them to forget that he'd said that. It was apparently his attempt a leveity. (He didn't allow the transcripts.)

There's been so much talk about Baez's inexperience, but why have so many "seasoned" lawyers not had him plead her out to a lesser charge and moved on? That tells me that there is lots more to this story. They surely haven't stuck around for the money...especially with her defense now on state money.

These are only a small sampling of my questions/observations. Reminds me of a big ball of tangled string. It is so hard to understand how one family can seemingly be so dysfunctional.

At this point, there are far more questions than answers. There is still lots more to come. Unfortunately, the absolute truth will probably never be known.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Freeda, looks like you and I have many of the same thoughts.

One of the biggest questions I have is concerning the defense's request for a mistrial based on the prosecution's attempt to show lack of remorse. Judge Perry denied the motion and said that they were right if that is what the prosecution was doing, but that they were just trying to show her lack of conscience. Many of the media talking about the trial have pointed out in some of their statements that the prosecution is trying to show the jury her lack of remorse and have said nothing about conscience.

Questions: If seasoned reporters (some of which are/have been lawyers themselves) are interpreting the prosecution's line of questioning as showing remorse, how is a jury made up of lay people not going to think the same thing? Will the judge explain to them the difference and tell them that they cannot consider any of the testimony in this phase of the trial as lack of remorse? If not, will they know the difference? The jury was not present for his explanation when he denied the motion.

I have watched this every day so far and there are so many inconsistencies (for lack of a better word), it is unreal....such as:

George testified on the first day he was on the stand that on the 16th of June, supposedly the last day he saw Caylee, he asked Caylee where she was going and she said, "Zanny's".

Question: If Zanny is a figment of Casey's imagination, where did that come from?

Question: Why has no one asked any of those testifying if they had ever heard Caylee talk about Zanny? My kids talked constantly about their sitter.

Question: If George was familiar with the smell and police procedures, why didn't he call the police?

He testified that he drove the car home and then went to work.

Everytime Baez asked him if the smell was stronger when he opened the trunk than it was when he first opened the driver's door, he kept saying that all he saw in the trunk was a bag of garbage. About the 4th time, Baez told him that he didn't ask what he saw but that he had asked if the smell was stronger. George finally said, "No", chewing Baez's out at the same time for continuing to ask him, and once again added that he had already told him four times that all he saw was a bag of garbage.

Question: How could Cindy recall first and last names so well of supposed friends of Casey's after being told only one time who they were but couldn't recall some exact events? Many of these names were in her testimony about the supposed trip to Tampa and Zanny's car wreck. Many of us have problems relating names (especially first and last of people we have personally met, sometimes on numerous occasions). Much too detailed to be very credible.

Cindy seems to call all the shots in the family and Casey is about the only one that would ever cross her. The man at the tow lot testified as to how much George kept apologizing to him for Cindy's beratings.

Question: Why didn't George just tell her to back off?

George was asked about when he was told Casey was pregnant. They asked him about who the father was. His reply was, "I don't know...I didn't ask." Whaat? Most fathers I know would not simply ask, they would demand to know. My guess is (and it is just a guess) that Cindy was in control there, too.

I don't buy their story of drowning and a cover up as presented, yet. I have thought all along that she probably drowned or accidentally died some other way...not premeditated murder, at least not from what I've heard so far. As for the "secret", Lee alluded to family secrets at Caylee's eulogy that he delivered, which apparently didn't raise any flags then.

One big mystery to me is how she has been sitting in jail all this time and not broken. When she reacts (and it's been this way all along), she faking it or guilty. When she has had no reaction, she's hard or cold or totally uncaring.

It was kinda funny when the prosecution was trying to get some AOL IM's in to show motive, the judge said that if motive was what they were after it looked to him like she should have been planning to kill her parents. It quickly told them to forget that he'd said that. It was apparently his attempt a leveity. (He didn't allow the transcripts.)

There's been so much talk about Baez's inexperience, but why have so many "seasoned" lawyers not had him plead her out to a lesser charge and moved on? That tells me that there is lots more to this story. They surely haven't stuck around for the money...especially with her defense now on state money.

These are only a small sampling of my questions/observations. Reminds me of a big ball of tangled string. It is so hard to understand how one family can seemingly be so dysfunctional.

At this point, there are far more questions than answers. There is still lots more to come. Unfortunately, the absolute truth will probably never be known.

Excellent Dilly who. You really have thought about this. I thought it inappropriate too when the judge made that comment that if that was her motive, she didn't kill her parents, or words to that effect.

I think that I heard or read that "Zanny" may have been her slang word for Xanex. She may have given Xanex to Caylee to make her sleep so she could leave and go to clubs.

I am repeating hearsay, and can't even say where I heard that.

I am shocked by the "in your face" attitude of Cindy that I have seen many times and by George's barely controlled anger, evident to me in many situations that I have seen in the last three years. Remember when George went off supposedly to kill himself? There must be some mental illness not diagnosed in that family. They don't seem normal at all to me.

I just cannot see how Casey doesn't react when she sees the tapes of her very appealing little girl shown in the courtroom. If it were me and my daughter was dead and I saw those adorable films I would be absolutely inconsolable, as would most people.

[jebartle]

testimony today was compelling....ONLY cold hearted Casey was the only one that had NO compassion for her mom........Even Chaney Mason (Casey's other attorney) was looking at her at break with GREAT concern about defending that little liar!!!!!.....This case looks like a No-Brainer...

[rubicon]

I don't believe Baez explanation as to why it took 31 days to callpoice. George A an experienced cop he would not have made things worse by hiding an accidntal drownng. It is not known how and when Caylee died and it may never be known. If Casey does have the answers she must be a sociopath because I can imagine anyone putting their parents through what George and cindy anthony have faced these three years.

So for those who don't believe Baez drowning story how do you explain a mother who does nothing for 31 days.

I also noted another contradiction concerning this drowning story, If Casey knew her daughter drowned June 16th then why in her staements following her onfrontation by both her mother nad the police did she claim she had been seaching for her daughter through other sources? Why didn't she just say to her Mom or the police talk to my father he will tell you what happened?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[LittleDog]

And also if the drowning happened as the defense alleged why was there diapers, caylees toothbrush, and her clothes in the car? Answer me that!

John

[josephine71]

But do they have to take off my soaps to prove that she is a lier and her poor mother to sit there and get questioned and to answer I feel so sorry for her...Put my soaps back on she is guilty as sin....

[rubicon]

Folks I hope the following explanation shows up in this trial......will someone please explain why Casey anthony was driving around with a bag of garbage in her car for so long a period a pizza box is found with maggots? Is it possible Casey did so to cover up decomposed body odor? Wouldn't the average person immediately eliminate something that stinks?

I have been involved in trials for my entire career (civil not criminal) The one thing I learned about jurors is they can tolerate a lot of flaws about a witness but they cannot abide a liar. Casey is a big LIAR. Keep in mind even after her mother confronted her she is still talking about the nanny

Finally it is an additional slap in the face to us all that our tax dollars are supporting her defense. Even sadder the parents will never have closure because she will never tell what happened to caylee

[CMANN]

This girl has issues. She did not lie to cover up. All the lies existed before Calee was dead. Very confusing.

I am still looking for evedince of foul play in the death of caylee. So far I have only seen evedince that Casey was a good mom.

C

[rubicon]

Caylee' s remains are found a block away in a plastic bag and having tape over her mouth would indicate that she was the victim of foul play.

Caylee was not seen or heard from for over 31 days and this really good Mom is party Pamela and doesn't seem concern that her daughter is absent. With a Mom like that kids don't need to be afraid of strangers.

[dillywho]

But, there has got to be more here than meets the eye.

If the mother/daughter relationship was all that Cindy would have everyone believe, why would Casey not just go away to do as she pleased (she was an adult according to Cindy) and leave Caylee with her parents? As long as she was with her grandparents, it couldn't be child abandonment, could it? She certainly could have had the freedom to do as she pleased that way. Her friend, Amy, testified to Casey and her mother's frequent arguing. Why does her mother say one minute that Casey was a great mom, and yet her friend says her mother called her unfit and threatened to take Caylee away from her? How can it be both ways? Were Cindy's threats just another control tool?

No doubt, Casey was/is very self-serving. As much as Cindy obviously loved Caylee, she is much the same. Seems to me, they used each other with the baby caught in the middle. She even said on the stand that she and Casey are very much alike.

If there was a problem with her dad (as the defense came out with in the beginning of the trial), could it be that Casey's seeming distain/hatred for her mother stems from her mother maybe knowing about it and not doing anything about it or ignoring it?

Why did George report the gas cans theft right away, but not the smell of death coming from his daughter's car if he really thought they were both missing?

At the beginning of today's coverage, it was pointed out (by the media) that because Baez was making the objections on direct, he is the one required to cross-examine. With Mason being the more experienced, why does he not make the objections instead of coaching Baez on what objection to raise? The analysts seem to think that Mason would be more effective. Is their plan just to count on an appeal?

Too many questions, too few answers.

[CMANN]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Caylee' s remains are found a block away in a plastic bag and having tape over her mouth would indicate that she was the victim of foul play.

Caylee was not seen or heard from for over 31 days and this really good Mom is party Pamela and doesn't seem concern that her daughter is absent. With a Mom like that kids don't need to be afraid of strangers.

Caylee's remains, tape over her mouth have not been entered into evidence yet. She may be as guilty as sin but as I said I have not seen the evidence yet.

Something is rotten here. I think we're in for a few surprises.

C

[jebartle]

this family (if Caylee drowned) would find disposing of this dear little child in a swamp more logical??? rather than reporting to police as a drowning which is an accident and certainly not a murder.....My conclusion NO drowning, another Casey lie.....Let's face it, this girl does not know how to tell the truth, like she said "I'm such a good liar!....Lee testimony is dragging....object, side bar, object, side bar...boooooring!..The wheels of justice go round and round!

[jblum315]

Gracie, I love your signature. But in this case, it was too late for poor little Kaylee.