[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That isn't what I took away from it, neither the appeal to emotion or that only the poor can solve Global Warming.

What I heard is that the countries that will need to make changes to solve global warming are the poorest of the countries. These countries need energy in order to survive but don't have the money to afford the luxury of clean energy. Because they are poor they will have to make the choice of putting food on the table and surviving or buying into clean energy. It is defies logic to think that they will choose clean energy over survival.

The solution then is not to whine about the England or the US doing more and it is not to expect China or Russia or Central America to give up on fossil fuels or force them to do that. The solution is not to sit and complain but to research and develop inexpensive clean energy sources.

That's what I took away from the video.

Speaking of developing inexpensive, clean, and extensive quantities of energy - that is what Oliver Stone gave a speech about at Davos today. He said that the oil and gas industries of the world have used propaganda to convince many people that Nuclear Energy is dangerous. He contends that it is NOT and is safe and refutes the lie that it is DANGEROUS.
......And I believe that the US, Europe, and China as the BIGGEST countries hold the KEY to preventing further climate change and the small rural poor people are NOT the leaders, but RATHER the VICTIMS of Climate Change. Also, the populations in both the Uber Rich countries and the poor countries BOTH need to practice better BIRTH CONTROL in order to prevent Global Warming from spiraling out of control. ......meanwhile back in the US of A....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is no "solution" to "global warming." or to Climate Change. Or whatever catch-phrase you wish to assign to it this week. People who are trying to "solve" it, are not right in the head. People who insist that it isn't happening, or that it's not a big deal, and therefore no one should do anything other than continue to consume fossil fuels at a rate unheard of in the 1950's, are equally not right in the head.

There is a finite amount of fossil fuels on this planet. They're called fossil fuels because they don't regenerate. Just like if you chip a tooth, it won't grow back. You'll have to replace it with something else. Resin, porcelain, metal. And as with fossil fuels - when it runs out, you'll have to have something replacing it. Solar, wind, water, ethanol, etc.

Better we at least TRY to get it start now, so that some day - assuming the human race still exists, our great-great-great-grandchildren will have heat in the winter, AC in the summer, hot water, electricity, etc.

Once upon a time back in the 1950's some of you were taught in scout camp to leave the place as good or better than you found it. Maybe some of you have forgotten that lesson, or never cared about it. That's unfortunate. Some folks care. You don't have to give up your gas-powered golf cart and I know I'm not ready to give up mine, either.

But being AWARE of the needs of our planet, the thing that we are borrowing from the generations to follow ours, is important. Making an effort to not waste - why use styrofoam plates when you can use paper plates? Styrofoam comes from fossil fuel sources (petroleum). Paper comes from renewable sources (trees, and in some areas bamboo).

Support companies that offer these alternatives, whether by buying from them, or recommending them to others, or both.

Climate change isn't just about heating and illuminating your house with oil/gas/wood/solar. It's about doing whatever we can, within our budgets and within our personal means, to preserve what we have as long as we can. Even if the inevitable happens and the planet dies (which planets do, it's part of the cycle of life), we'll know that we, as a species, made some attempt to help ourselves while we were around.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There is no "solution" to "global warming." or to Climate Change. Or whatever catch-phrase you wish to assign to it this week. People who are trying to "solve" it, are not right in the head. People who insist that it isn't happening, or that it's not a big deal, and therefore no one should do anything other than continue to consume fossil fuels at a rate unheard of in the 1950's, are equally not right in the head.

There is a finite amount of fossil fuels on this planet. They're called fossil fuels because they don't regenerate. Just like if you chip a tooth, it won't grow back. You'll have to replace it with something else. Resin, porcelain, metal. And as with fossil fuels - when it runs out, you'll have to have something replacing it. Solar, wind, water, ethanol, etc.

Better we at least TRY to get it start now, so that some day - assuming the human race still exists, our great-great-great-grandchildren will have heat in the winter, AC in the summer, hot water, electricity, etc.

Once upon a time back in the 1950's some of you were taught in scout camp to leave the place as good or better than you found it. Maybe some of you have forgotten that lesson, or never cared about it. That's unfortunate. Some folks care. You don't have to give up your gas-powered golf cart and I know I'm not ready to give up mine, either.

But being AWARE of the needs of our planet, the thing that we are borrowing from the generations to follow ours, is important. Making an effort to not waste - why use styrofoam plates when you can use paper plates? Styrofoam comes from fossil fuel sources (petroleum). Paper comes from renewable sources (trees, and in some areas bamboo).

Support companies that offer these alternatives, whether by buying from them, or recommending them to others, or both.

Climate change isn't just about heating and illuminating your house with oil/gas/wood/solar. It's about doing whatever we can, within our budgets and within our personal means, to preserve what we have as long as we can. Even if the inevitable happens and the planet dies (which planets do, it's part of the cycle of life), we'll know that we, as a species, made some attempt to help ourselves while we were around.

I use paper plates. I EVEN wash the paper plates and use them twice if food is NOT too caked on them. I wash glass and ceramic glasses and cups also. I would NOT ever have a dishwasher in the house, but I will use a stove and a microwave. That is pretty SMALL potatoes and just personal choice when it compares to the BIG picture of Global Warming. People need to be aware of what they are doing. For example, many people like to sport fish. You can do it from a lake bank or from a row boat and have a pretty good time and have a SMALL environmentaL FOOTPRINT. Some people feel that they NEED a 200-horsepower boat to RACE out into the Gulf to supposedly get to the Best fishing areas. There is something IRONIC about fishing that way. To have the BEST sport fishing on the planet you need to have HEALTHY Coral Reefs - like the ones in say (?) 1950 which you could walk to in MIAMI right offshore. Today to get to a reasonable reef you need to go 20 miles offshore and be over a reef 200 feet down. What's ironic is the CO and CO2 fumes from the 200 hp engine are what is KILLING the reefs and making them harder to reach and FURTHER offshore.

I would submit that the most increase in the heating blanket in the upper atmosphere has been caused by engines burning fossil fuel. So, whatever an INDIVIDUAL could do to DECREASE their use of internal combustion engines would be the MAIN answer to improving Global warming. Electric vehicles (of ALL kinds) are better than ICE vehicles because the point of origin for electrical energy is a single large energy EFFICIENT power plant with scrubbers on their exhaust. Whereas, ICE vehicles are EACH inefficient and polluting.
.......That IS why the answer for an INDIVIDUAL is to transport themselves by bicycle, Ebike, E golf cart, E car, and
E truck. E-vehicles are simple compared to ICE vehicles, easy to repair, lighter, lower center of gravity, and will with increased production......be less costly......all while giving off less pollution and allowing Mother Earth to return to a healthier environment for people.........and for saving Polar bears and preventing the wholesale vanishing of species from the planet that is going on RIGHT NOW at a terrible RATE.

[Byte1]

I am not concerned about how much oil we have in the U.S. and how many years before we consume it all. I've read that we have enough to last at least 500 years, if that information is correct. If we do not have an alternative fuel for energy by then, oh well. We know that combustion engines can operate on other fuels produced by organics such as corn, etc. But, in 500 years surely someone can come up with another form of energy.
So, then we talk of pollution. That is a good subject and one that we have been addressing for a long time. We have substantially cleaned up our air since I was a child. I haven't been to a major city in a long time that has had the viability limitations and breathing difficulty (in the U.S.) that we had when I was a child. Steps in the right direction. Pat ourselves on the back for that.
Climate change? Historical data suggests that the climate has always changed, hot to cold to hot to cold again. What makes folks so arrogant to suggest that they had ANYTHING to do with changing our climate? The climate has changed without the existence of mankind and will continue to change after man is gone. The only climate change that I can see man contributing to is the cost of living now is harder on us than it was in the past, due to someone else taking our money to use to support useless research that has absolutely no benefit to us. Does anyone think that by taking away one's livelihood and/or lowering our standard of living, it's going to make us more willing to accept something that "experts" say will have an effect on us in a couple centuries? Oh yes, some supposed celebrity "experts" declare the world will end in ten years or so. If so, why worry about changing? Personally, I have not read anything that really supports the idea that man has or can change the temperatures of the world, other than temporarily using a nuclear detonation to cause a "nuclear winter." Showing the existence of man thus warmer weather patterns is like saying the increase in fast foods has decreased the population of deer in the world. I have even heard crazies suggest that global warming has caused colder winters. When will the crazies suggest that climate change is causing a lowering of mankind's population? Perhaps we will become extinct because it will become too hot for reproduction? Crazy?
Some sensible folks have suggested that we do research new forms of energy but that we do not ban existing forms before we discover new methods that are financially viable. Common sense idea? How about ideas like revisiting forms of mass transit?
No one disputes the term "Climate Change." But, the debate is whether or not man is responsible or not. I believe that the climate will change whether or not man exists. I read the debates, but have yet to be convinced. Just because someone has credentials, does not make that person 100% accurate 100% of the time.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If it could be fixed. It would be fixed.

Not if it threatened the current energy mammoths like oil and gas. They will kick and scream like insane Banshees...........and they have the lobbying money to shut up rival energy systems.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Everybody has their opinion on this, mine is, there were 130 glaziers in 1890 & 130 years later there’s still 130 glaziers. The only way they’re so-called climate change can be fixed is if one country gets the whole world to go along with them, 1 country can’t fix it. Beside Mother Nature can’t be paid. Climate change goes thru these changes every 100 years. So if nobody believes my theory that’s OK because Al Gore made hundreds of millions trying to fix Climate Warming & guess what they still think our ice caps are still melting & oceans are rising. I’m not here to argue just telling you what I think!

Oceans ARE RISING ! tHAT IS A MEASURABLE fact. That IS not EVEN in question. Every scientist knows that. In order to get to a solution, you 1st define the problem, then 2nd you agree on the KNOWN FACTS. Then you can begin to talk about a SOLUTION. I can't take anyone seriously that can't get past step 1, and also can't be pretty much in agreement on step 2........KNOWN FACTS.
.......Another Fact is that CO2 and CO are forming a heat blanket in the upper atmosphere.
.........Fact.......Glaciers are breaking off into the ocean and that IS why the ocean level are rising.
.........Coral reefs are dying - due to increased CO@ and CO levels.
.........The oceans are trying to absorb the extra CO2 and CO from internal combustion engines because there are not enough plants to absorb it all that is produced by the vehicles of an increasingly over-populated planet.........note FACT the Amazon Rain Forest is currently being burned down to support more cattle. Which is a sad joke at many levels. It shows how shortsighted and greedy humans can be. They are going to hurt humanity all around the globe just to HELP out a few greedy uber creeps in Brazil.
........The Amazon Rain Rorest is called by scientists, "the lungs of planet Earth".

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by amexsbow

Just like Al Gore and all the "scientists" who predicted a catastrophic sea rise...BUNK.

Don't these people remember the old tale " The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

They all have an agenda, and it is not for the good of all.

Recent Hurricane Ian is proof (right in our backyard) that the ocean levels are higher and the Gulf water temperature was at RECORD levels. That's why hurricane IAN was so humongously BIG and dangerous and record costly. What do people thing is going to happen NEXT summer. I would NOT be Nostradamus when I predict that there will be MORE KILLER hurricanes hitting Florida.
.......I saw a sign the other day on I-75 as I left Georgia heading south ....Welcome to Florida .....make sure you brought some life preservers.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Whitley

Is China, the Worlds second largest economy and home to the most billionaires, still considered a poor developing country?

China is over-populated and that makes them dangerous. The US profit-hungry corporations outsourced the US middle class to become the Chinese middle class. Now they will turn on us and we DESERVE IT for stupidity. Excess world population means excess pollution, which means excess world problems.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by rmd2

Yes it is because the majority of people live a life of poverty and starvation while the top persons of the CCP are fat and happy. This is what you get with communism/socialism.

Actually, China embraced the parts of Capitalism that worked for them. How they have taller skyscrapers than we do and their middle class was increasing before they flubbed up their response to Covid. And the US middle class was disappearing due to tax changes and propaganda against labor unions.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

A lot of climate change experts claim that it is an "existential threat."

Why do some people call climate change an “existential threat”? | MIT Climate Portal

“There is a genuine possibility that within the coming century, we will hit temperatures that are deeply incompatible with the continued existence of human life."

If the experts truly thought that climate change would cause the end of human life, I wouldn't think that they would fly around the world in private jets to attend climate change conferences.

Even if I thought that the modern world - gas cars, gas furnaces, air conditioning - would kill everyone, I am not sure that most people would want to go back to a 19th century life style.

Actually, if we go past a non-returnable threshold for Global Warming most animal species will go extinct and humans could tumble back into the 14th century. ......... riding horses and wearing armor.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, if we go past a non-returnable threshold for Global Warming most animal species will go extinct and humans could tumble back into the 14th century. ......... riding horses and wearing armor.

Will we get Dragons back? Because I really want a dragon...

[JRcorvette]

Climate Change is all Hogwash! It is all about your MONEY!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Will we get Dragons back? Because I really want a dragon...

"Seriously misunderstood creatures, dragons are"

[golfing eagles]

I think the last several posts may be longer than the speech they refer to

Some people's "facts" are just flat out wrong, as well as exhibiting faulty cause-effect reasoning. Using ONE, yes a SINGLE storm (weather event) as an example does not reflect a 100,000 year CLIMATE change cycle.

And yes, ocean levels are rising, they have been rising for the last 23,000 years, again, showing that human beings have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. In the last 120 years ocean levels have risen 6-8 inches. Actually, the biggest rise occurred between 21,000 BC and 11,000 BC-----432 feet, yes FEET, not INCHES. But before those easily panicked get frightened, Florida won't be partially underwater for another 25,000 years. Also, remember that the 432 foot rise followed a similar fall in ocean levels during the last period of glaciation due to water getting sequestered in glaciers and ice caps.

Bottom line: I think I'll have a thick juicy steak tonight, comforted by the FACT that one less cow is farting.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

No one disputes the term "Climate Change." But, the debate is whether or not man is responsible or not. I believe that the climate will change whether or not man exists. I read the debates, but have yet to be convinced. Just because someone has credentials, does not make that person 100% accurate 100% of the time.

1. People DO dispute the term, there are people (and media "sources") that insist that Climate Change is a hoax, and isn't happening at all.

2. That is not "the" debate. There is no singular debate. There are a couple of debates going on:
a) whether climate change is a concern at all (see #1 - climate deniers)
b) whether humans have *contributed* to it (not whether we are responsible for it).
c) if a) and b) are true, then what, if anything, can we do to slow down OUR part in it?

The first step in fixing any problem is to identify the problem and confirm that it is, in fact, a problem.

Climate change is a problem.
Human civilization is a contributing factor to the problem.
Humans -can- make changes to reduce their contribution.

Those are things that some folks consider factual. Others consider a global conspiracy. When the two come together and agree on the truth of the matter, then the human race will be able to do something, if something is necessary or even possible.

In the meantime, those of us who DO believe that it's a problem, that we are contributing to it, and that we /can/ make changes to reduce our contribution, should at least try to make some changes.