Except in Scandinavia where it's about 70% electric due to a very large government

There is definitely some truth to that rumor but we're actually subsidizing the car companies and not just the wealthy people because they can afford it anyway. It would make more sense to have a scalable rebate based on the price of a car, meaning that a car under $25,000 will get a higher rebate than a car that's $35,000 etc

Tax system tesla
 

Actually the entire tax system is either set up to benefit business or for social engineering. Ie the huge deductions when you have children or buy a house. So promoting an electric car versus a gas car is obviously also a socially engineered tax that she's supposedly to help with pollution etc. Billions have been given away to consumers in the effort to help manufacturers of electric vehicles. Nothing has been given to hybrids which would have benefited much more as their more of them, just imagine if 7500 was taken off the price of a $20,000 car that was a hybrid, literally tens of millions would be sold because they would become the cheapest cars and every manufacturer would try to make them.

There is a tax credit for plug-in hybrids. The amount varies from model to model.

Well, we should be finding out the real facts and figures sometime next year. Just put a deposit on the Cybertruck. I can't wait. I don't think we'll use it when we go visiting up north, that's why we have Enterprise.

I can't wait but have to get comfortable because I think it's going to be a while.

I had every intention of leasing a Cadillac SUV loaner car when we went to Jersey in July. The exact same vehicle was leased by a good friend for $498 a month with I believe $5k down. The price went up to $798 at the only dealer that had four in stock in Pennsylvania

just don't try to hold onto the car too long, or all that gas savings will be gone when you need a new battery. . .

:boxing2:

A 2013 model S
How many miles?

Its not me and its from the Tesla users group, where everyone should go if they want to learn first hand about tesla ownership.

Second, not sure if age or usage determines the life of these types of batteries, however, at $11K, at 20M per gallon and $3.00 per gallon, that's 73,333 miles on an ICE car.

so unless the Tesla went farther than that, you throw the car Tesla away, because it costs you more than the gas savings, over the longer term, with the higher risk of mechanical / electronic issues. . . software updates creating bricks, brake and unintended acceleration issues, etc.

just elite virtue signalling, that's all

I can’t tell the number of miles. It looks like a 2013 - should still be under the battery warranty (8 years, 150K miles with 70% retention ) ??? Regardless, I doubt this is a typical situation unless the battery has been abused (the equivalent in a gas car is never changing the oil). There are Model Ss out there with 300K miles on the original battery. Cherry picking to fit your narrative.

It would be really interesting to know how many of the people on this thread who have posted negative things about Tesla, have actually driven or been in a passenger seat of a recent year model Tesla? I'd bet most haven't.

Not too long ago I was at a body shop getting some work done on my Genesis (great car by the way) and got into a conversation with the owner about cars. Somehow we got on the topic of Tesla, and he asked me "Have you ever ridden in one?" When I replied no, he asked me "Would you like to? Let's go for a drive"

He took me on a 5 minute drive, and all I can say is WOW! That was one super-cool car!

You can go to Orlando or Tampa for a test drive if you want to get behind the wheel. Bring some neck protection for acceleration whiplash ;-)

Consumer Reports, Reliability, again, not my opinion, just posting actual opinions from reputable sources
Tesla, dead last. Might add to the cost of ownership, dunno, just spitballing here. . . and the cost of free to repair without use of the car, is still a cost of inconvenience. .

Doubting, as an opinion, just fits your narrative, doesn't make the topic false.

Don't give me that crap. I never said the topic was false. Don't put words in my mouth. Please present some data on the Tesla fleet to support your narrative about the Tesla batteries. You put it out there, defend it or shut up. Not just one cherry picked case.

And also don't drag race, the brakes aren't built to stop all the torque
 

And also don't drag race, the brakes aren't built to stop all the torque

https://twitter.com/i/status/1433888996216786948

Watch the last 20 seconds where the car lands up, as the driver tries to stop the car.

not that many of you here will try this I trust.
Unfortunately, the video is taken down from youtube, or the link is not working, same concept. . .

Tesla'''s Pending China Sales and Model S Plaid—with an Asterisk - by Vicki Bryan - Vicki Bryan'''s Bond Angle

independent review of the discrepancies in the advertised performance specs. . .

Another Tesla reportedly using Autopilot hits a parked police car - CNN

of course, the autopilot hones in on parked police cars like a cruise missile. . .

Where is the Cybertruck? It's been several days since we ordered it and NOTHING yet? Another year. I don't know if I'm gonna make it that long. I'm happier than a Clam At High Tide! Can't wait.

I ordered the one with two motors and already my kids have me thinking about getting the one with three motors. My plan of living here with a cheapo car did last for five years. I knew I wouldn't make it

till the end without getting something fun and nuts.

I see there’s a lot of EV haters ( especially Tesla?) but whether you like it or not it’s inevitable ICE manufacturers will all go electric .

ELECTRIC CARS ARE COMING SOON, NO MATTER WHAT THE HATERS SAY | Tesla Owners Online

But if there isn't enough raw materials to make safe batteries, EV won't scale. . . If you all think this will come true, you all should be investing in LIT, the lithium ETF, REMX, Rare Earth Metals, or Rare Earth Elements, and URA, or uranium which is the cleanest power production process yet, as the grid will need to have more power. Seriously, you will make lots of money, I have already, and it will continue. . . its a good 10-15% of my portfolio just for this reason.

Elon made electric vehicles sexy as a prototype, yes, whole heartedly agree, although he was not the founder of Tesla, he saw an opportunity and exploited the govt subsidies. Elon knows how to talk to make complex topics appear simple to lay people, and the lay people take it and try to reuse it to appear smart. Yes, I know first hand as he tried it in the electric utility on Linked In with a hand sketch diagram of proposed wires between houses as marketing for his roof shingles. I asked the electric transmission engineers at work, and they laughed,. . . like it was a proposal from the 1920's when electrification first began. . . also, he predicted 1,000,000 robo taxis on the road, its been over 2 years, no robo taxi, because he blew believer smoke up listeners' a$$e$

The only long term safety issue with electric cars, is the battery and fire hazard. there have been about 150 documented Tesla battery fires, and the car is still on the road. There were about 2-3 Chevy bolt battery fires and the car was pulled by a responsible car mfg.

Quality EVs will come from the ICE car mfgs because they know how to mfg cars. . . and service cars. . . they have both the mfg, sales and service infrastructure available. I am not against EVs, will try to investment money in their supply chain as a growth opportunity. I encourage all you who are EV believers as well. So conflating Elon and EVs as a single topic is the cultist belief

MY problem is Elon's perpetuation of cultism of those who no longer think critically without experience, and the reality of finance, implementation scaling, quality and politics, as he is a charlatan of major proportions, . . . If you have tons of money with nothing to do, go for it. . . . If you want quality EV, look into the competitors' EVs and you might be very pleasantly surprised.

sportsguy

Dude, keep up!

Tesla delays Cybertruck to late 2022; Elon Musk says it will be a ‘glitch in the Matrix’ - Electrek

LOL! you will be lucky to get one with 17K pre ordered, I will wager you any dinner you want that you won't ever see your dream truck. . . but for a time line, you won't get yours before Jan1 , 2024

sportsguy

Ok so it’s not that you hate EVs just Elon Musk I get it it. Did you or do you work for a car manufacturer ? I think Tesla is a amazing car maybe you never drove one? Can we pick apart things on Tesla sure we can pick apart on any OEM . I have a 2019 Chrysler Pacifica and the transmission shifts so hard it makes your whole body slam and they told me that’s normal get used to it. Every car I’ve ever owned has some sort of issue I can pick apart.
EV won’t scale? You see every car manufacturer in the world is investing billions on EVs.
Musk is a cofounder of Tesla and the largest shareholder and without Tesla/Musk no OEM’s would be changing their entire business model over to EVs and eliminating ICE vehicles. All of the critics said it couldn’t be done and laughed at him.
All of Elon’s time lines are off don’t know why he does that ?
Chevy Bolt is no comparison and all the fires happen when they are plugged in charging that’s scary especially in your garage. The Tesla fires well there was 190,000 ICE fires in 2019 and expected to be even more in 2020/2021
vs 150 Tesla fires ( if that’s correct?) . I feel safer in a Tesla! That includes arson,and other reasons unrelated to the vehicles like hitting structures driving too fast I’m sure ICE vehicles would have burned too. Quality vehicles will come from OEMS because they have the mfg sales and service sure in 5 years maybe? They are at least 5 years behind Tesla in technology and quality. Have you ever heard of Sandy Monroe? He just drove the Mustang E and it was pathetic compared to Tesla not to mention it look nothing like a Mustang? Check out his videos on YouTube he tests all the other OEMS EVs and they are way behind Tesla . Long way to go but I’m glad they’re doing it .
Pleasantly surprised by the big OEMS maybe in 5 years?
Again I don’t know why you hate Musk but he already made a million cars and that increase every year and as far as stocks go it’s a major winner.
A cult following yes that’s odd why people worship him? But give the man some respect he has changed the world and has many accomplishments besides Tesla. I don’t know how he juggles so many things but he does make a awesome car that most Tesla owners love and will remain loyal to the brand.

Ok so it’s not that you hate EVs just Elon Musk I get it it. Did you or do you work for a car manufacturer ? I think Tesla is a amazing car maybe you never drove one? Can we pick apart things on Tesla sure we can pick apart on any OEM . I have a 2019 Chrysler Pacifica and the transmission shifts so hard it makes you whole body slam and they told me that’s normal get used to it. Every car I’ve ever owned has some sort of issue I can pick apart.
EV won’t scale? You see every car manufacturer in the world is investing billions on EVs.
Musk is a cofounder of Tesla and the largest shareholder and without Tesla/Musk no OEM’s would be changing their entire business model over to EVs and eliminating ICE vehicles. All of the critics said it couldn’t be done and laughed at him.
All of Elon’s time lines are off don’t know why he does that ?
Chevy Bolt is no comparison and all the fires happen when they are plugged in charging that’s scary especially in your garage. The Tesla fires well there was 190,000 ICE fires in 2019 and expected to be even more in 2020/2021
vs 150 Tesla fires ( if that’s correct?) . I feel safer in a Tesla! That includes arson,and other reasons unrelated to the vehicles like hitting structures driving too fast I’m sure ICE vehicles would have burned too. Quality vehicles will come from OEMS because they have the mfg sales and service sure in 5 years maybe? They are at least 5 years behind Tesla in technology and quality. Have you ever heard of Sandy Monroe? He just drove the Mustang E and it was pathetic compared to Tesla not to mention it look nothing like a Mustang? Check out his videos on YouTube he tests all the other OEMS EVs and they are way behind Tesla . Long way to go but I’m glad they’re doing it .
Pleasantly surprised by the big OEMS maybe in 5 years?
Again I don’t know why you hate Musk but he already made a million cars and that increases every year and as far as stocks go it’s a major winner.
A cult following yes that’s odd why people worship him? But give the man some respect he has changed the world and has many accomplishments besides Tesla. I don’t know how he juggles so many things but he does make a awesome car that most Tesla owners love and will remain loyal to the brand.

What happens when there are 2 other people waiting for a charging station ? Fist fights ?

Maybe same thing happens at gas stations especially in a gas shortage sometimes worse than a fistfight

I don't do resulting, and EVs won't scale well because of battery components with known quantities available today, unless something else changes, which given R&D, may eventually happen. The same scale issue is hitting TV right now, with rural development of upper and middle class homes with not enough monopsony (local sole sourcing) employment to service the demand at large scale.

So read up on resulting, eloquently described in the introduction of the book, Thinking in Bets, by Annie Duke, former poker player. The corporate world loves resulting, but implementation and execution is what resulting analysis always forgets. . . as in the future is always uncertain, sometimes more uncertain than at other times. I work with both the strategy teams and the implementation teams in IT technology. . . technology speed scales very well, physical implementations not so much, ie, INTEL hit the maximum semi processor throughput with one processor, which is why increased processing speeds come from multiple processors (source an EMC semiconductor design engineer) . . . which is why Elon markets a physical car as a technology solution.

finance guy

I like that idea a lot.

Why would it be any different than when there is a line at a gas station?

Yup, a couple of hours ago he launched 4 civilians into space to a higher orbit than anyone has been in since Appolo. He does miss timelines, but he almost always makes up for it with stunning success.

What does that have to do with the TESLA car?

Tesla’s Driver Fatality Rate is more than Triple that of Luxury Cars (and likely even higher) | by Midwestern Hedgie | Medium

There are videos of a TESLA passing someone on a FL road, hitting a bump at 35 mph, losing control, hitting a tree and instant battery fire, 2 dead people. . . and very recently

The car has been built in tents and not at all the quality advertised or led to believe. the financial misrepresentations are blatant. . .

The Lucid Air is the first electric car with a 520-mile EPA-rated range - The Verge

Better battery design, going after the specialty market, but 500 Miles per charge and a $40,000 K price would be a car which most people would buy in the mass market. . .

Until then, just virtue signaling for the rich . . .

GEEZ, nice communicating with you! I'm gonna lay out between 50 & 70K for a toy and I never looked at any internet stories or YouTube stories. Thank's for filling me in with the details. At least now I know what's going on. :1rotfl:

Once you place the order they communicate with you often, straight from Tesla. It's great, you always know where you stand and are free to flee anytime you wish. I'm going to hang in there no matter how much time it takes.

I remember as a young man being a car nut having the feeling that I had to leave the dealership with whatever car I was after at the time. I'm not so young anymore and hope I'm around when the truck is ready.