Cruise line bailout ? Why

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Old 03-23-2020, 05:55 AM
dm82444 dm82444 is offline
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Default Cruise line bailout ? Why

The two largest cruise companies operating in the U.S. (Royal Caribbean and Carnival) operate only foreign-flagged ships. All but one of Norwegian Cruise Line's ships are foreign-flagged, and though Disney is a U.S. company, ships operated under the company's umbrella are foreign-built and registered in the Bahamas.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:20 AM
rustyp rustyp is offline
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Hey I thought of that the other day. Bailout money to those cruise ships companies that fly the U.S. flag. We know why they fly foreign flags. What's wrong with you don't get to take until you have given ? How about starting a bailout with something like refunding a companies last year's taxes that they paid. Make that info public before step 2.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:51 AM
OrangeBlossomBaby OrangeBlossomBaby is offline
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The same reason they tried to bail out corporations instead of giving the money *directly* to the workers this last time around (thankfully defeated).

Their excuse to the public: "oh the corporations will make sure that the employees get their share of the money."

The reality: didn't happen with the tax rebate, won't happen with a bailout.

The actual reason: shareholders need better dividends.
Who are the shareholders: primarily people who don't need better dividends to put food on their table.
Who doesn't benefit: employees affected by layoffs, shut-downs, closures, reduced hours, who rely on their jobs to put food on their table.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:45 AM
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The same reason they tried to bail out corporations instead of giving the money *directly* to the workers this last time around (thankfully defeated)...
Yeah, we all know that corporations are the devil incarnate. No need to try to help them through this crisis. They're not suffering any setbacks at all. No big deal if they fail, right?

Give me a break. The administration wants to send money directly to the citizens. But he also wants to help companies survive this mess. As it should be.
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:14 PM
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Yeah, we all know that corporations are the devil incarnate. No need to try to help them through this crisis. They're not suffering any setbacks at all. No big deal if they fail, right?

Give me a break. The administration wants to send money directly to the citizens. But he also wants to help companies survive this mess. As it should be.
But don't forget, if we give money directly to people, there will be a percentage of them( hopefully small) that will bolster beer, cigarette and lottery ticket sales. Time to buy stock in Coors
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:21 PM
sandybill2 sandybill2 is offline
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Guess I don't like to word "bailout" used when talking about airlines, cruise lines, etc. These industries are not responsible for what is happening to them. Not a result of bad decisions on their part. As far as the Cruise lines are concerned ---I don't know exact numbers---but I am sure they employ thousands at the US Cruise Terminals that they sail from. Plus they buy supplies at these US ports. I hope there will be some way to help citizens and businesses at the same time. Both are important to our economy.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:27 PM
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Guess I don't like to word "bailout" used when talking about airlines, cruise lines, etc. These industries are not responsible for what is happening to them. Not a result of bad decisions on their part. As far as the Cruise lines are concerned ---I don't know exact numbers---but I am sure they employ thousands at the US Cruise Terminals that they sail from. Plus they buy supplies at these US ports. I hope there will be some way to help citizens and businesses at the same time. Both are important to our economy.
Regarding the cruise lines - they do NOT PAY TAXES to the USA. The companies themselves - do not pay taxes for those ships that harbor in the USA - because the ships are registered under foreign flags. The money that -would- go to them, if approved, would be money collected from American taxpayers.

I love taking cruises. I'd love to take some more of them. But if they aren't allowed to sail from our shores right now, then they are NOT buying supplies from these US ports, and those thousands of employees will be laid off or terminated, due to lack of work. They are grossly underpaid, so their unemployment benefits will be minimal.

If you bail out the cruise ships, which can't go anywhere or pick up passengers or buy supplies, then those employees will get NOTHING from the bail out. They will still be out of work, the supply companies will still not get revenue for NOT supplying the ships that aren't going anywhere.

There is absolutely no reason to funnel a cent of taxpayer money into any of these cruise lines.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:33 PM
retiredguy123 retiredguy123 is offline
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I agree with the OP that, cruise lines that structure their business to avoid U.S. income taxes for the company and their employees, should not be bailed out by U.S. taxpayers. That would be ridiculous. If they go out of business, there will be other companies to fill the void.
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:47 PM
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Bail out?Like so many things with big corporations and politics the "bail out" is a financial tactic with strings attached that are not necessarily aimed at helping the consumer.

There needs to be more said and provided for the small businesses that are not going to survive. So far lip service to making the wage earner whole through this crisis. Think of all the small business in the town squares and surrounding areas serving TV. Many are at zero revenue or less than half their normal revenue. Their rents, utilities, etc, will tank many of them.
They truly need a bail out. This is an area where TV commercial properties can "lend" a hand....with deferring rents etc.

Talking with some of the tenants of the squares.....nothing of any consequence from commercial properties.

The small businesses account for half the employment. This is where the bail out should be more aggressive.

Let's hope our favorite, shops, restaurants, salons, etc......find meaningful assistance to assure they survive.

My 2 cents on bail outs.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:00 PM
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"My 2 cents on bail outs."

And add my 2 cents to that.
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:40 AM
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Looking at all the replies on this post, it's no wonder nothing can get done in Congress and the Senate. The cruise line do pay taxes, port taxes, taxes on every ticket sold, and payroll taxes. They employ thousands of worker here, directly and indirectly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ships are foreign flagged for insurance reasons.

Rollie
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:04 AM
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Looking at all the replies on this post, it's no wonder nothing can get done in Congress and the Senate. The cruise line do pay taxes, port taxes, taxes on every ticket sold, and payroll taxes. They employ thousands of worker here, directly and indirectly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ships are foreign flagged for insurance reasons.

Rollie
I'll bet it's more than just insurance but you have a good point about other types of taxes they may pay.

Here is where my plan kicks in. All large corporations of "X" size requesting subsidy money gets per a phased plan. First phase the size of the subsidy is no larger than the amount they paid in taxes 2018. That amount is to be published so we the taxpayers can see their contribution to our society. Then there can be several other phases of money distribution but each phase be based upon some rule from the previous phase. Example no more money if you laid off employees. Phase two perhaps was based upon sustaining payroll. And above all no stock buybacks allowed until the entire amount is paid back to us - the taxpayer.
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rustyp View Post
I'll bet it's more than just insurance but you have a good point about other types of taxes they may pay.

Here is where my plan kicks in. All large corporations of "X" size requesting subsidy money gets per a phased plan. First phase the size of the subsidy is no larger than the amount they paid in taxes 2018. That amount is to be published so we the taxpayers can see their contribution to our society. Then there can be several other phases of money distribution but each phase be based upon some rule from the previous phase. Example no more money if you laid off employees. Phase two perhaps was based upon sustaining payroll. And above all no stock buybacks allowed until the entire amount is paid back to us - the taxpayer.
Not a bad start, but IMHO all additional socialist corporate bailouts/handouts/subsidies...need to go a LOT further.

1. If you used your tax breaks to buy back stock...you go to the back of the line.
2. If you used your tax breaks to increase executive pay, or to give out bonuses to upper management...you go to the back of the line.
3. If your tax liability % for the last few years has been well below the average paid by small businesses, or families...you go to the back of the line.
4. If you are a big business and haven't already cut your manager's, executives and CEO pay by at least 25%, but have laid off regular workers instead...you go to the back of the line.
5. If you work on Wall Street/the financial sector, took advantage of both the 2009 bailout's and the latest tax breaks, yet still received bonuses...you go to the back of the line.
6. If you didn't give pay raises to hourly employees, build new plants or pass on the majority of your savings from the last TRILLION dollar tax break to help employees...you go to the back of the line.
7. If your annual income is more than $75K single, $150K household (including withdrawals from investment income)...you go to the back of the line.
8. If your business was already in trouble due to poor, or ethically challenged management decisions (looking at YOU Boeing)...you go to the back of the line.
9. Etc., Etc., Etc....and feel free to add your own.

In other words, if you've already benefited from the previous TRILLION dollar Socialist Corporate/Wealthy Handout, but didn't invest in expanding your business or helping your employees...you go to the back of the line.
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:56 PM
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How about the beneficiary of the bailout/loan whatever it ends up being need file an "A" level plan of what the money will be utilized for. If receiver deviates from the filed plan interest and penalties will apply.
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:22 PM
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How about the beneficiary of the bailout/loan whatever it ends up being need file an "A" level plan of what the money will be utilized for. If receiver deviates from the filed plan interest and penalties will apply.
Excellent idea.
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