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-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   Death with Dignity (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/death-dignity-341721/)

bsloan1960 05-31-2023 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pairadocs (Post 2222438)
Soylent Green ? Old book and movie ! People have always had the right to end their life. Had a friend who decided she did not want to live with her VERY severe diabetes, facing one amputation after another that began with just a couple toes. She overdosed on medication and died by just falling asleep. To involve the "government", congress, legislation, a plan for enforcement, etc. etc. is a very dangerous, Pandora's box, a slippery slope ! It will, in the end, it will ultimately incorporate infringing on religious freedom, and already you get a hint of what lies ahead when people on this platform even post such things as: what kind of religion glorifies pain and suffering ? Actually, if one has studied religions of the world, there are such religions, but that should never become the prerogative of the government, or for that matter, just of people on a social media site. History has already shown us, in other areas, that legislating such matters never ends well. People will not take this seriously, but I can see something like that eventually viewed as a way to "solve" the problem of addicts living on the streets, of the shortage of psychiatric facilities for our chronically mentally ill. We already know that many in the political class are more equal that many of those they are paid to represent, so when health care is rationed, will the decisions be qualitative or quantitative ? Soylent Green, that novel of complete "science fiction"....
I worked in an Emergency Room. Most suicide attempts by intentional overdose fail. The most effective method is a gun in the mouth- it has a very high success rate.

People should not have to resort to blowing off their brain stem. To be found in this condition by family members- and even by first responders is severely traumatizing.

It is much more effective and compassionate for all involved for a person to be medically guided into a painless death with loved ones present. While government involvement would be initially cumbersome at first, once the process becomes an accepted part of medical care the red tape would become a more streamlined process.

Two Bills 06-01-2023 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2222422)
By the way, England's National Health service is already starting down that road -- rationing healthcare, while making the suicide pill available to anyone who asks.
News to me.
I know we have to wait for a lot of treatment, but I have not be denied any, or offered any end of life pills recently.

PS. It's Great Britains NHS. not England's
Best not upset the Jocks, Taff's, or N.Paddy's.

Blackbird45 06-01-2023 04:29 AM
Don't get it
 
This is not hypothetical my wife died on Friday.
It was not unexpected she was under hospice care for weeks, but the final five days the only thing she was living on was morphine and oxygen.
She laid there barely beathing with her mouth open.
As far as I was concerned, she passed way before her last breath.
I don't know if she was in pain or not because she was long pass communication.
I was glad she passed because she did not need to go through this anymore.
I don't understand our society, we see our pets suffering and we put them to sleep to end their suffering, but we're perfectly find letting humans go through this agony.

jedalton 06-01-2023 04:37 AM
I agree, a few States do have that

Softball77 06-01-2023 05:41 AM
I believe AHCD (Advanced Health Care Directive) helps some. At least that allows you to pull the plug. Family discussion should include these options and try to honor the patients desires regarding quality of life etc.

MandoMan 06-01-2023 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 2222352)
Just curious, which religion dictates cruel suffering before death? We shoot horses when they can’t recover for humane reasons, are we less kind to people?
The same ones that promise cruel suffering after death for suicides and won’t let them be buried in “holy ground”. Need we name them?

Here’s what Kurt Vonnegut wrote in his novel “God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater”:

“ There was a serious overpopulation problem, too. All serious diseases had been conquered. So death was voluntary, and the government, to encourage volunteers for death, set up a purple-roofed Ethical Suicide Parlor at every major intersection, right next door to an orange-roofed Howard Johnson's. There were pretty hostesses in the parlor, and Barca-Loungers, and Muzak, and a choice of fourteen painless ways to die. The suicide parlors were busy places, because so many people felt silly and pointless, and because it was supposed to be an unselfish, patriotic thing to do, to die. The suicides also got free last meals next door. And so on. Trout had a wonderful imagination. One of the characters asked a death stewardess if he would go to Heaven, and she told him that of course he would. He asked if he would see God, and she said, "Certainly, honey." And he said, "I sure hope so. I want to ask Him something I never was able to find out down here." "What's that?" she said, strapping him in. "What in hell are people for?” ”

We need an Ethical Suicide Parlor here in The Villages.

Blueblaze 06-01-2023 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2222456)
News to me.
I know we have to wait for a lot of treatment, but I have not be denied any, or offered any end of life pills recently.

PS. It's Great Britains NHS. not England's
Best not upset the Jocks, Taff's, or N.Paddy's.
Well, if you're British and dying of an expensive disease that the NHS is paying for, I guess you'd know better than me. I'm just basing my opinion on what I have read, and my own personal experience -- of sitting with an employee all night while she writhed on a bed in a cloth cubical in a ward as big as a gymnasium, waiting for a doctor who never came, while my secretary was on the phone to our sleeping HR department back home in Tulsa, trying to rouse someone who could agree to have her moved to the real (i.e. private) hospital across the street.

When morning in Tulsa came, we finally managed to get her moved, and discovered the source of her agony. She'd had a tubal pregnancy, which had burst. She spent the next three weeks in the hospital, fighting a peritonitis infection, before she came home, unable to ever get pregnant again.

But maybe the NHS just rations healthcare in the case of American workers installing software in their company's London office. I'm sure they'd never offer you a death pill (or a gurney in a gymnasium) instead of a cure.

Michael 61 06-01-2023 06:12 AM
As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.

lindaelane 06-01-2023 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsloan1960 (Post 2222343)
I
Doctors are reluctant to give people adequate doses of pain killers because OTHER advocates, such as Social Workers, scrutinize their decisions and claim that people who are "Over Medicated" are in a daze and this affects the quality of their life.

\
Honest question after doctors and nurses sometimes withheld prescribed pain medicine from my mother before hospice, but not after (her particular hospice had no social workers for the 4 days she was in hospice):

Are you saying doctors commonly withhold adequate pain medication after a person is in hospice? It is very wrong to withhold it anytime it is needed, but I've always comforted myself with the idea that once I am enrolled in hospice, I won't be refused meds. Am I incorrect? Does this commonly happen to people in hospice?

I know nursing homes are such horrible suffering. I've never understood why visitors don't see this. I saw it every time I visited, but everyone else seemed ok with whatever happened - I guess because a medical professional had OK'd itj, or because it is psychology for many/most to block out what we can't bear..

Villagesgal 06-01-2023 06:54 AM
Move to Oregon, they have an assisted suicide law. It has been in effect fir over 10 years. Many doctors there are sympathetic to this and will help their patients end their lives with dignity.

Fastskiguy 06-01-2023 07:17 AM
As a veterinarian, I'm not sure assisted suicide is as straightforward in humans as it is in animals. I mean...in theory it's the same but with animals everyone is "on the same page". From what I've observed of kids taking care of their elderly parents, occasionally people aren't on the same page and sometimes there is a malicious intent because of past trauma, inheritance money, or whatever. One of my friends, one of 5 kids, was just ram rodded into putting her dad into memory care. He was doing fine at his lake house with a caretaker, living a good life. But the lake house is worth a couple mil and some of the kids "could really use that inheritance now" <-one of them actually said that! So you can see where this is going "Dad is forgetting stuff, let's off him" and down the slippery slope we go.

Still....when the prognosis is grave and the patient is suffering, the gift of a painless death surrounded by loved ones is a wonderful thing. I hope it happens, somehow.

Joe

airstreamingypsy 06-01-2023 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael 61 (Post 2222504)
As a Bible-believing Christian, I believe in the sanctity of life - both the unborn and the elderly. I do believe (and have seen with my parents and relatives as they passed), that God gives Christians the strength and ability to endure the pain/struggles that often occur at the end of life.
This is why people are leaving the churches in droves. Christianity is a cruel religion, the idea that you have come to terms with human suffering says it all.

JWGifford 06-01-2023 07:24 AM
Thank you for that resource.

airstreamingypsy 06-01-2023 07:29 AM
I watched someone commit suicide on TV. He was terminally ill, and chose the date based on the pain he was in. His family and friends had a farewell party the night before. The next morning it was just his family. He drank some liquid and lay on the couch, with his wife sitting next to him. About 20 minutes later he was gone. He lived on the west coast. It was peaceful, and legal and his doctor gave him the concoction he drank. I didn't know there was a pill.

The end of life is a gift we give out beloved pets, so they don't suffer. It's cruel to allow humans to suffer.

kimmerlie 06-01-2023 07:32 AM
I am a retired hospice nurse. I still give presentations about good end-of-life care to clubs, organizations churches, and anyone that will listen.I do not charge for this. I have cared for 100's of dying people. We know how to manage pain, control, the other symptoms experienced by the patient, and support the caregivers. We have sent patients on vacations and helped them enjoy life again. This is a free service paid for by Medicare, Medicaid, or private insurance. My book, "Spirit Matters: How to Remain Fully Alive with a Life-Limiting Illness" is full of stories and information about what a "good"dying looks like and how it can be achieved with the help of hospice.


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