Originally Posted by ptmckiou (Post 2126849)

meet ardi…3.8 million years old. He is a couple million years older than the famous lucy missing link. The theory is alive and well. Biological cells evolve with time, adapt to new environments, or die off. Same for humans who are made of evolving dna and cells.

ancient fossil found in ethiopia reveals face of early human ancestor a. Anamensis, species even older than "lucy," from 3.8 million years ago - cbs news

Originally Posted by WiscoGirl (Post 2126846)

You mistake one big thing. Science isn't fact. Science is always theory until the theory is proven. When a particular scientific theory can be proven (over & over & over) it then becomes scientific law. For an example of scientific theory becoming scientific law seek Sir Isaac Newton's many scientific laws. His law of gravity can be proven mathematically. Science and math are intricately woven.

Science in order to become law must be proven. Science is in no way ever simply a fact.

P.S. no, we are not all that dumb, however the Fabian socialists would like us to be.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126863)

Agreed. However I would take it one step further: no scientific "law", is ever immutable, no matter how set-in-stone the evidence points it out to be. A good example is in physics: the laws of mechanics and thermodynamics work precisely as they should--every time--EXCEPT when things are taken down to the quantum level, where such "laws" appear to be broken with impunity.

This is one reason (the primary reason, actually) that I question whenever a scientific "fact" becomes dogma; a belief so ingrained in the believers that they won't even admit to the faintest possibility that their belief might not be quite as rock-solid as they'd like to believe it is. Good science is ALWAYS ready (and should be willing) to revise whatever theory or "law" based on new evidence.

It is certainly that way with evolution. Things change as new facts (and fossils) come to light. We should be able to accept them, even though they might not support our own ideas or beliefs.

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 2126843)

I see a common misunderstanding here. First off, Darwin didn’t propose that evolution exists. People could see the evidence of it and then he came up with an explanation (Natural Selection) of why it happens.

Evidence of evolution is all around. Viruses/bacteria mutate. Our abuse of antibiotics has resulted in super bugs because those bugs that have a slightly better resistance are the ones that survive and pass on their genes. The weak ones die and their line disappears. That’s natural selection. This is what we teach in schools.

People breed animals and plants to optimize them for their use. Does your pet “fur baby” look anything like a wolf? No, it has evolved through what people might consider unnatural selection (evolution directed by humans).

Darwin didn’t propose a theory of evolution but a theory of its cause. Evolution is a fact—not a theory.

Originally Posted by wiscogirl (Post 2126865)

thank you for explaining this further. I agree with you 100%.

Originally Posted by Gpsma (Post 2126683)

Amazing that people still believe in some god...a sky daddy..that controls everything.

Originally Posted by Gpsma (Post 2126683)

Amazing that people still believe in some god...a sky daddy..that controls everything.

Originally Posted by nhtexasrn (Post 2126884)

i heard it said once that there's never been an atheist in a fox hole. The day may come that you cry out to "sky daddy".

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2126616)

hi,
the theory of evolution has never been proven........ Darwins theory should not be taught in schools as it is not fact.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2126728)

Don't be silly. There are thousands of examples of one species evolving into another one. We have fossils and we have DNA studies. In fact, we can trace mitochondrial DNA back to "LUCY", an ape that walked upright in Africa 3 million years ago, proving that we share a common ancestor. Not only that, 98% of human DNA is identical to chimpanzee DNA.

Just because you aren't aware of a thing does not mean that it does not exist.

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2126813)

it is a bit thin to equate a living thing with a mechanical construction, if you insist that a "watch" proves a watchmaker who/what created the watchmaker?

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe (Post 2126693)

What I believe is that a being many times more "evolved" than us, so much as to appear "God-like" created a set of rules (scientific laws) to govern his creation and put us and it in motion to go on for many millennia.

Originally Posted by petiteone (Post 2126953)

GOD? Someone the ancients believed in to accept things they couldn't explain that modern science has since found evidence for or against. As an MD, I really thought that we had moved on from the GOD theory to actual Science.

Originally Posted by Gpsma (Post 2126683)

Amazing that people still believe in some god...a sky daddy..that controls everything.

Originally Posted by oneclickplus (Post 2126994)

On the contrary, I find it amazing that anyone doesn't believe in a Creator God. There is zero chance that the earth and everything on it with all its complexity and diversity is an accident.

People who believe in evolution from "nothing" do so without the education to understand what would be required for this to be true. You believe that a wrist watch is evidence of a watch maker. Yet the much more complex strand of DNA just came into existence without any design input? Nonsense.

One example: the flood of Noah described in the Bible is a much more plausible explanation for sedimentary rock and the fossil record than millions / billions of years of evolution.

A taste of another view of the evidence provided by fossils & rocks:

Nautiloid Fossils in the Grand Canyon
http://u.pc.cd/eKkctalK

An Overview of the Rocks and Fossils
http://u.pc.cd/KDU

Radioisotope Dating 1
http://u.pc.cd/7jl7

Radioisotope Dating 2
http://u.pc.cd/Kq7ctalK

Evidence for a Young Earth
http://u.pc.cd/aNj7

Originally Posted by Mrfriendly (Post 2126842)

I guess we that caught the Covid-19 virus are now part Bat?

Originally Posted by Siegfried (Post 2126995)

Mysticism and reason are antithetical.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 2126902)

You mean, speculating that we share a common ancestor.

The theory of evolution goes back to fish climbing out of the sea and eventually becoming human. Where is the proof that a fish became a mammal?

A two percent difference is all that is needed to be a different species.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2126616)

hi,
the theory of evolution has never been proven. There is no missing link. Yet we teach it in schools. Why? In Darwins book, he left a bail out to his theory. It was the one thing he could not answer and he admitted it would be proof his conclusions were incorrect. Pre Cambrian fossils showed no signs of evolution to explain the over abundance of many animals in fossils in the Cambrian period. Animals just showed up out of nowhere in the Cambrian period. Why do we continue to believe this incorrect theory as well as aliens, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness monster. Are we all that dumb or are we just looking for entertainment. Regardless, Darwins theory should not be taught in schools as it is not fact. Just tell them we don't know. We have enough fiction in the world today. Science is fact not fictional theories.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126623)

So is the choice between evolution and creation? Did things "just happen" and then bumbled along haphazardly from there, resulting in the world we have today? Sorry, I don't buy it. The reason is as follows.

"Most people know about DNA (aka deoxyribonucleic acid) as the molecule that holds the information, i.e. the genetic codes, within our bodies. What some people don’t realise is that this equates to a seriously large amount of information being stored within a single biomolecule. DNA molecules can store up to 215 petabytes, or 215 million gigabytes, of data in a single doubled stranded molecule, making it one of the highest storage density mediums in the world. Simply put, the information storage devices within our bodies are much more capable than we can currently create, so there has been a lot of focus in trying to harness the power and data storage capabilities of DNA for our own man-made data storage systems." (Electro pages: storing information and data with DNA). ONE petabyte contains 500 billion pages of standard printed text. Multiply that by 215... I am not sure I can comprehend a number that large. That number is contained in a "database" if you can call it that, that exists on a submicroscopic level. Asking somebody to believe that that "just happened" is beyond ludicrous. The watch proves the existence of the watchmaker

That said, I'm not convinced that the fossil record is solid proof of anything. So few living things become fossils; conditions have to be just right for fossilization to happen. I recall hearing something recently that may be one in 100,000 animals or plants become fossils, and even with the ones that do become fossils, there is no guarantee that they will be found, or that they will not be destroyed in some natural event such as a flood, volcano, or whatever. To me, expecting the fossil record to be a reliable chronology of development is like depending on a calendar with maybe five numbers on it to be the reliable chronology of the number of days in a decade.

But we can use reasoning. We know, or think we know, two things. Fossils exist, and the earth changes. Oftentimes those changes in the earth are widespread and drastic. Assuming the existence of a creator God, we can also assume intelligence and foreknowledge on the part of that God. If God created the physical environment to change, as it does, then is it not reasonable to assume that God also provided the life he created to adapt according to the changes of the physical environment? Again, assuming the existence of that God, the answer cannot be no. The proof is that we are here.

I have never seen evolution versus creation as an either/or thing. In my mind they exist together working perfectly in tandem. They always have.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2126626)

They probably teach evolution because they've found "missing links" for nearly every line -- from humans to horses, to sharks, to whales, to aardvarks and dinosaurs. It's a "theory" the same way gravity is just a "theory". The proof is so obvious and everywhere that that you need to invent a religion in order to ignore it.

What's really amazing, is the incredible string of coincidences that must occur in order to preserve a fossil. I'm astounded that we have even one fossil of Lucy -- our ape-man "missing link" ancestor known as Australopithecus. In fact, we have dozens of examples. It's yet another example of the ludicrous impossibility of our universe.

And it's yet more evidence that our universe was engineered by a bored deity, and not the result of rolling a seven umpteen trillion times.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2126636)

I am amazed that a human being can watch a virus evolve from deadly to harmless in a mere three years, and still claim that there is no proof for the "theory" of evolution.

And I am amazed that a human being can understand that the same virus is comprised of the same chains of the same proteins found in a human cell nucleus, and yet, insist that we have no common ancestor with that virus -- because when Darwin first noticed evolution and described it in 1859, he didn't include all the answers to every question about evolution in his book.

And I am astounded that the same person will then point to his Holy Book, which was written 3,000 years before the discovery of DNA, and tell you that evolution cannot possibly be true because it is not mentioned in his 3,000-year-old Holy Book. He'll then go on to tell you that there has not been enough time for evolution to work because the Universe is only 6,000 years old. He knows this because he added up the ages of all the people mentioned in his Holy Book, and that's the number he got.

Simply astounding!

Originally Posted by Berwin (Post 2127106)

Even the Pope has said that evolution is a fact.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2126626)

They probably teach evolution because they've found "missing links" for nearly every line -- from humans to horses, to sharks, to whales, to aardvarks and dinosaurs. It's a "theory" the same way gravity is just a "theory". The proof is so obvious and everywhere that that you need to invent a religion in order to ignore it.

What's really amazing, is the incredible string of coincidences that must occur in order to preserve a fossil. I'm astounded that we have even one fossil of Lucy -- our ape-man "missing link" ancestor known as Australopithecus. In fact, we have dozens of examples. It's yet another example of the ludicrous impossibility of our universe.

And it's yet more evidence that our universe was engineered by a bored deity, and not the result of rolling a seven umpteen trillion times.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2126662)

Why do we need a deep thinkers two?

Originally Posted by DAVES (Post 2126678)

Taught in schools? "Science is fact not fictional theories." So much Science taught in schools is not fact but SPUN current thought. We all know the earth is flat and the planets revolve around the earth. Much of education is indoctrination. Few teachers are educated enough, bright enough or have the time to discuss these things.

Originally Posted by Decadeofdave (Post 2126711)

I feel like I walked into a mensa meeting.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 2126695)

Yes, viruses can evolve. And species can evolve but there has never been any absolute proof of one species evolving into another.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2126701)

I think that is just semantics. Who has the authority to elevate a theory into a law?

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126963)

Hmmmmm.

Say that the poster was not an MD, but instead a mechanic: the guy who fixes complicated automobiles about which we rank-and-filers know little or nothing. Would that mechanic be justified in believing that the complicated machinery upon which he works "just happened", or would he have to admit that, at some point along the evolution of machinery, there had to be some sort of intelligent design?

Originally Posted by Decadeofdave (Post 2126711)

I feel like I walked into a mensa meeting.

Originally Posted by skarra (Post 2126796)

Like politics, Religion should also be banned on this board.

Nothing productive comes from it

Originally Posted by Mrfriendly (Post 2126842)

I guess we that caught the Covid-19 virus are now part Bat?

Originally Posted by Windguy (Post 2126843)

I see a common misunderstanding here. First off, Darwin didn’t propose that evolution exists. People could see the evidence of it and then he came up with an explanation (Natural Selection) of why it happens.

Evidence of evolution is all around. Viruses/bacteria mutate. Our abuse of antibiotics has resulted in super bugs because those bugs that have a slightly better resistance are the ones that survive and pass on their genes. The weak ones die and their line disappears. That’s natural selection. This is what we teach in schools.

People breed animals and plants to optimize them for their use. Does your pet “fur baby” look anything like a wolf? No, it has evolved through what people might consider unnatural selection (evolution directed by humans).

Darwin didn’t propose a theory of evolution but a theory of its cause. Evolution is a fact—not a theory.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2127136)

i believe that birds are really dinosaurs. That sort of twists the concept of what a species is.

Originally Posted by WiscoGirl (Post 2126865)

Thank you for explaining this further. I agree with you 100%.