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thanks topgun, my theory was that no one would catch my error, I guess it too was a bad theory, only corrected by facts brought out into the light ...facts work, theories are just excuses for I don't really know

it is amazing that as billions of phone cameras have been purchased, the reported ufo rate has gone down to nil, the jig is up for ufo's,
we can be fooled no longer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2128384)

it is amazing that as billions of phone cameras have been purchased, the reported ufo rate has gone down to nil, the jig is up for ufo's,
we can be fooled no longer

Oh, I think we definitely can be fooled. Not all the time, but often enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2128384)

it is amazing that as billions of phone cameras have been purchased, the reported ufo rate has gone down to nil, the jig is up for ufo's,
we can be fooled no longer

Actually, there have been more credible, unexplanable sightings. I met Betty Hill once; have to admit she seemed a bit looney but something did happen to her and her husband that no one has ever been able to explain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2127897)

Reaching total conscientious is nothing more than having common sense. We know that crop circles are man made, we know that Bigfoot is a ruse, we know the UFO's that have not been faked are secret military projects, and we know that we have not been visited by aliens. Area 51 was a ruse by the government to scare the Russians into thinking we had alien technology.
Star Wars defense system was the same. There are no alien creatures in the sea, in mountain caves, or in a government lab. Why do we spend so much time trying to fool people into believing something that is not real?

WHY? Why questions have ALWAYS been difficult to answer. The Area 51 situation may be about MORE than just trying to scare the Soviets. That IS just too simplistic of an answer. The Star Wars defense system may have been about making some US corporations rich and may have produced some usable research - it may have forced the Soviets to build more missiles and bombs and bankrupted the Soviet Union. The GREAT Star Wars defense system is a little bit like the GREAT WALL or China - they both were designed to make people feel more protected and they both now reside on a historical heap of minimal usefulness.

WHY do people INSIST on believing in something that is not real? Well, different people believe different realities and have differing ideas on what is MOST important. Reality is in the eye of the individual realist. It is easy to prove the point about different realities - just look around at the various churches and religions that humans believe in. The churches are REAL in the sense of they exist in brick and mortar. But, 100 % of all humans do NOT believe the ideas contained in the churches give reality to their lives - some do, some don't.

Why believe in something that is NOT real? It may be psychologically comforting. Some are comforted by the idea of life after death. Some are comforted by the idea that humans are NOT alone in the Universe, others are frightened by that concept. Humans have great variability!

Quote:

Originally Posted by phousel (Post 2128349)

Wait! Bigfoot is a "ruse"?

Bigfoot is real. Ask any Northern Minnesotan.

I dated her in high school.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2127965)

Early science had it that there were five planets (six, if you counted the moon). We didn't know that Uranus and Neptune existed--until we did.

Early science had it that the Earth was the center of everthing (I mean, the VISUAL proof was right before your eyes). We didn't know that the Earth was simply one of the planets that rotated around the sun--until we did.

Until quite recently, cutting-edge "science" had it that disease was spread by various things: poisoned wells, or taking too many baths, or by smelling bad smells, etc. etc. We didn't know that microscopic critters that we couldn't see but rode around in various media such as the fur of rats, the guts of mosquitoes or the legs of houseflies and spread often horrific diseases--until we did.

And so on. There are probably hundreds of examples of what "common sense" told us in the past, that turned out to be absolutely false.

I find it interesting, if a bit specious, to claim that "total consciousness" exists of nothing more than knowing that something doesn't exist, simply because we've not found proof positive that it does. We're built to perceive things on a very narrow spectrum and it is only as we develop methods of perception that expand that spectrum do we learn just how narrow our "vision" was. Telescopes, for example, showed us the wonders of the universe in ways that we never could have dreamed. Anton van Leeuwenhoek's invention of the microscope allowed us to see those little critters that spread the disease. For millennia we stood in awe of birds and how they could take to the air, having very little idea of just how--until a couple of brothers named Orville and Wilbur Wright came along and proved that it was not only possible but actually pretty easy--IF one understood the principles. Birds and fish cover thousands of miles to nest or lay their eggs where they themselves were hatched. We still don't really know how they do it but the fact that we don't know HOW they do it doesn't mean that their ability to do so doesn't exist.

I doubt that total consciousness--or total understanding, which is what is really being discussed here--will never be achieved. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy goal. The route to expanding consciousness first begins with an open mind; what we accomplish after that is dependent only on the vision of the people who allow their minds to BE open.

I do know one thing. And that one thing that has been proven time and time again to be an absolute barrier AGAINST expanding our consciousness is "Common sense".

I remember reading that humans use only a small % of their brains. So, maybe in the future, there will be opportunity to use more brain cells. There are stories or instances where a person has a stroke or gets hit by lightning and then suddenly, without prior training, can play a piano or a violin like a virtuoso.

i always wondered........dolphins and elephants have BIGGER sized brains than humans, so what has held them back? Humans have opposable thumbs and obviously, dolphins and elephants do NOT. I wonder how smart they could be if they had opposable thumbs. Also, it is a shame that elephants get hunted for ivory by poachers. For that matter, how smart would dog / wolves be with opposable thumbs. Or even raccoons? Perhaps these specie are also evolving? Just some food for thought.

[QUOTE=DaveZ;2128338]Good topic and conversation, thank you for the post.

We don’t have a working, scientific theory of human (or even animal) consciousness beyond I exist, therefore I am. It is under constant study though.

"I Think, Therefore I Am" Descartes
used as the Archimedian Point

[QUOTE=Whitley;2128596]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveZ (Post 2128338)

Good topic and conversation, thank you for the post.

We don’t have a working, scientific theory of human (or even animal) consciousness beyond I exist, therefore I am. It is under constant study though.

"I Think, Therefore I Am" Descartes
used as the Archimedian Point

Touché! Thanks for the correction!

i always wondered........dolphins and elephants have BIGGER sized brains than humans, so what has held them back? Humans have opposable thumbs and obviously, dolphins and elephants do NOT. I wonder how smart they could be if they had opposable thumbs. Also, it is a shame that elephants get hunted for ivory by poachers. For that matter, how smart would dog / wolves be with opposable thumbs. Or even raccoons? Perhaps these specie are also evolving? Just some food for thought.[/QUOTE]

Be it random, or by supreme design we all continue to evolve. There is one species I studied that seems to have a built in kill switch to evolving; the shrimp. (This was a long time ago, when I had the time to have such discussions over beer and pizza on York till all hours of the night).
The shrimps brain is located next to its airway. Should it grow, it will cut off oxygen. This may have been something I came up with to explain why there are different rates of evolution between species, or it may be factual.

[QUOTE=DaveZ;2128601]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitley (Post 2128596)

Touché! Thanks for the correction!

I am sorry, I hated doing that. I know you just had a typo. It did change the meaning so I tried to nudge it back. Again, apologies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2128441)

Evolution goes on. Changes, mostly imperceptible over short timescales. Some things seem to be unchanged over many millennia. Animal and plant life caught in amber and fossils from the earliest times sometimes turn up something that appear unchanged. Still, for most living things, evolution goes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2128406)

Bigfoot is real. Ask any Northern Minnesotan.

I dated her in high school.

And I remember how you stepped on my feet when we danced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2128606)

And I remember how you stepped on my feet when we danced.

Those were your FEET?

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Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2127897)

How can you be 100% sure we have not been visited by aliens. It would be foolish to think in an infinite universe we are the only living beings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdoffive (Post 2128648)

those were your feet?

surprise! 🙈

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eg_cruz (Post 2128664)

How can you be 100% sure we have not been visited by aliens. It would be foolish to think in an infinite universe we are the only living beings.

Never 100% sure. In the 90+% range that we have not been visited. Still, the possibility, if not probability, does raise some interesting "what ifs ".
As to other life in the cosmos? My guess is that the universe most certainly has life and lots of it. As to sentient beings alive during our time window? Far less, I guess. And sentient spacefaring being with capabilities to visit during our small window of existence? Few. Very, very few, if any. But there is the possibility I could be wrong. So, as Jack Horkheimer used to say, "Keep looking up!"