Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2130394)

While I think this could be interesting, the potential for turning political is immense. I'll keep hands off, thanks.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2130488)

I’ve never yet heard a theory put forth by a distinguished economist that there hasn’t been an equally distinguished economist there to tell the first economist that he/she is absolutely no clue.

Everything is relative. My father told stories of times when earning enough one day to feed the family the next was an accomplishment. I’d say that the number of Americans who have had to face that reality in the past fifty or so years is nearly nonexistent, yet the outcry from our “oppressed” workers probably eclipses that in the 1930s several times over. We pay people not to work by assuring that their unemployment “benefits” total more than they’d earn—lifesaving health care is available free of cost to anyone needing it—poverty is not defined by not having the money to purchase shoes but not being able to afford the newest and fanciest smartphone. We have created a class in this country not of the poverty - stricken or even the needy, but of the pampered and the entitled. And Joe Taxpayer gets to support them.

I was the trials endured by 1930s Americans that made them arguably The Greatest Generation. America today has no such mountain to climb, and thus no route to greatness or reason to achieve it.

Originally Posted by La lamy (Post 2130545)

I like capitalism that lets people believe hard work will lead to well deserved pay, but I have an issue with capitalism that leads to grotesque greed. It's ironic that some supposed "God fearing/loving" people don't think "what would Jesus think?" before amassing more than needed and leaving their employees in the dust of misery. That's where I believe unions and regulating governments are absolutely necessary.

Originally Posted by MandoMan (Post 2130547)

You are right. We had close to unfettered Capitalism at the end of the 19th Century, and while there were Capitalists with lots of capital who got rich, it was a very small part of the population, and the lack of “safety nets” caused a level of suffering for the working class and below that is rare today. In the 20th Century, Capitalism was bridled by the laws you mention. The effect was that the Capitalists stayed rich, but nearly everyone else in the country has a much higher standard of living than we would otherwise have had. Virtually every retired person in The Villages is here because of Social Security, pensions from businesses and the military, union membership, mutual funds letting little folks participate in business investments, government guarantees of savings, Medicare, supplemental health insurance, selling houses that we bought decades ago elsewhere, price supports, and much more. All of these keep Capitalism from being as powerful (and dangerous) as it could be, but they make it possible for all of us to participate in the blessings of Capitalism and even call ourselves Capitalists, even though we aren’t as the word was used in 1890. We could call this Capitalism modified by Socialism, but I’d rather call it something like socially-responsible Capitalism. Many countries have that, and the proportions vary, but wherever it happens, it seems to offer the greatest happiness for the greatest number.

Originally Posted by Blackbird45 (Post 2130553)

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A PROBLEM

How do you combat this problem. A majority of the people who enter this country come for a better life, to achieve this they need a job. Instead of punishing these people you punish the people who are knowingly hiring them. Make the financial punishment so punitive that it is not worth the risk of employing illegal immigrants. If there is no work, they will not come.

Now the question, how do you go about this. We do have a system in place which utilizes the use of the social security card. The problem is this is antiquated and needs to be brought into the 21st century. I believe this task can be achieved in two and a half years and at a much lower cost than a wall. I have a credit card in my wallet, I make a purchase at my local supermarket, by the time I get home I receive an email notice not only telling me where I made the purchase, but also the amount that was spent. I have a handy person come to my home, they pull out a scanner, they swipe my card, and the payment is made within seconds. This is the technology that has to be adopted by the social security system.

Originally Posted by rsmurano (Post 2130590)

Any socialism is bad. Who gives anybody the right to take money away from someone to give it to another? Nobody should have that right. This doesn’t work and that’s been proven. The only people that make money in the unions are the unions.
Capitalism pays off when somebody wants to go above and beyond the norm or if people want to actually work.
Nowadays, nobody wants to work. This generation feels that they deserve to make a high salary or hold a top job without doing the necessary work to get there.

Originally Posted by Larchap49 (Post 2130610)

Just look at the history of socialism and see if your opinion holds up. It won't. But if not convinced pack up and move your ass to a socialist country where you will have no rights and can work hard and give half your earning to the socialist government.

Originally Posted by jammaiora (Post 2130617)

Government programs to help US citizens who are disadvantaged are important. Our taxes are like the insurance premiums that we pay (homeowners, car. umbrella policies). When there is a disaster in the US, our taxes (premium for FEMA) help the disaster victims. Government exists to help the less fortunate among us, among other purposes.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna (Post 2130686)

You assert,” We are in fact better off then people in any other country as large as ours. The problem is, as any economist will tell you, the result of rampant capitalism is socialism.”

Of course there is only one other country “as large as ours”, so your “survey” is badly flawed. In fact there are other countries that if not actually socialist are so heavily taxed that they operate like socialist countries. Various polls and interviews of residents of Scandinavian countries consistently show that they are very happy, trust their governments to provide a much wider variety of social services than are provided to Americans, and almost always reject the idea of moving to the U.S. as being undesirable to them.

Claims that U.S. capitalism and that our style of democracy are the best systems in the world are nowhere near as widely accepted throughout the world as many Americans assert.

As a matter of fact, the way our democracy is currently operating and my perception of the chances that it will change doesn’t tempt me to be an unfettered proponent for our systems. Finns, Swedes, Danes and Norwegians respond to surveys saying that they like the services and policies of their democratically-elected governments and would have little interest in moving to the U.S. They understand that they are paying taxes to support the government policies and programs offered to them and find that quite acceptable.

As far as I’m concerned saying that I am happy with the breadth and quality of governmentally-provided programs here in the U.S. is incorrect. Saying that I actually trust my elected representatives couldn’t be farther from the truth. I’m too old to move to another country to achieve such satisfactions and trust and I fear for what the U.S. will become for my grandchildren. I wish I could have higher hopes.

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko (Post 2130823)

We, in the US of A are far better off than our counterparts in China or Russia thanks to capitalism. Scandinavian countries are the equivalent to 1 of our states. They offer no retirement systems and help only the indigent. The complexity of dealing with multiple states is something they don't have to deal with. Which probably makes them happier. Capitalism with the right social programs is a chance for people to dream and make those dreams come true.

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon (Post 2130948)

Right, the corporations are making record profits with the lowest taxes in history, and the divergence between the rich and poor is also the greatest in our history, because there is little regulation and legislation is on the side of corporations because of Citizens United and other SCOTUS rulings.

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2130488)

I’ve never yet heard a theory put forth by a distinguished economist that there hasn’t been an equally distinguished economist there to tell the first economist that he/she is absolutely no clue.

Everything is relative. My father told stories of times when earning enough one day to feed the family the next was an accomplishment. I’d say that the number of Americans who have had to face that reality in the past fifty or so years is nearly nonexistent, yet the outcry from our “oppressed” workers probably eclipses that in the 1930s several times over. We pay people not to work by assuring that their unemployment “benefits” total more than they’d earn—lifesaving health care is available free of cost to anyone needing it—poverty is not defined by not having the money to purchase shoes but not being able to afford the newest and fanciest smartphone. We have created a class in this country not of the poverty - stricken or even the needy, but of the pampered and the entitled. And Joe Taxpayer gets to support them.

I was the trials endured by 1930s Americans that made them arguably The Greatest Generation. America today has no such mountain to climb, and thus no route to greatness or reason to achieve it.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2131116)

US wealth DISPARITY is the greatest in the 1st world. At least, we are number one at something.

Originally Posted by Davonu (Post 2131213)

Because we are the richest country.

At least we know the leaders of those socialist countries have no more money than the poor folks they lead. :D