[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Automobile accident deaths are down, but suicides are up, drug related deaths are up people who died who were unable to have necessary surgery & people died who were unable to be diagnosed are all up. And murders are actually up in 2020.

I can understand why murders are up - CV has caused tension to go up and is tearing apart the social fabric. There are probably disputes arising within families that end up in violence. - Racial tensions are rising from issues of wealth disparity, job loss, current fear of Police, and ultimately a fear of future increased Police state. Social fabric tension causes fear of change in general, which leads to crime, which might escalate to murder. In an environment of fear, people become more tribal and want to place blame on the "OTHER" groups or tribes, often minorities. Strange conspiracy theories take hold with people unemployed and staying at home, which get spread more than usual on social media sites that do not block the hate. - people are becoming homeless as they can no longer pay their rent and mortgages. This will be hard to reverse at this time. These people will lose hope and get more and more desperate. It is not a pretty picture. The future is confused and insecure. Also, suicides are a problem already mentioned in other posts.

[kappy]

I believe it will be years before we know how many deaths that are attributed to the virus are really virus related. In all likelihood, the vast majority of deaths that are registered as COVID deaths probably had another more likely cause and getting the virus caused a quicker death, primarily with the elderly. We, of course, do not know what damage may have been done to the bodies of all those people who survived the virus. When we have a vaccine and start to see the elimination of the virus, some scientists will go back and look at all the COVID deaths to get a better idea of the number of deaths that can actually be attributed to the virus alone. Hopefully, that day will be soon. Since I am a senior citizen, I will continue to wear a mask and socially distance myself.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Exactly, the cause of death can be manipulated, but dead is dead. The Coronavirus has been compared to the Spanish Flu, but the death rate in the US increased by 31% the first year the Spanish Flu effected the US. Yet in 2020 there hasn’t been an uptick in deaths despite this pandemic...

Improvements in medical science could explain some of that difference. Also, even though the US responded slower to CV than other countries, the US may have responded even slower and not as well during the Spanish Flu. Which, interestingly, was really started in Kansas, but got misnamed by the US Government. Funny how History never corrected that mistake?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How about this:
A naked man approaches you with the intention of peeing on you.
You are armed with a gun and pull it out.
That's better protection than a pair of pants, but a pair of pants may keep you from getting splashed on if he has gotten too close and pees because you scared the pee out of him.

Protect yourself and let everyone else worry about protecting themselves.

Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Mrprez

It is a two way street there Marathon Man. Just as many trying to convince others that it is something to worry about. In today’s order on line economy, there is no need for you to leave your house. You can get most anything delivered right to your door, including a new car! The science has been all over the place in this from the beginning. had their message been consistent from the beginning it might be a different story. Perhaps, if we face this again, we will be better equipped.

The Medical Science has evolved as they learned more about the CV. The Science has been very consistent since about June. You can trust Science better than the non-science (nonsense). The non-Science has divided the US into 2 tribes, that for simplicity sake, can be described as "non-masked and masked". Our social media is filled with propaganda - some internal to the US and some external, like mostly Russia. Their objective is to cause wedges to divide America and destabilize her.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

Funny how my guns are loaded and ready and yet not one of them has gone out and killed anyone. My guns must be pacifists.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Some people think that guns are the solution to every problem. And that is one reason that murders in the US are up, and suicides.

Actually the highest murder rate with guns is in the cities with strong gun control.
Also Mexico has very tough gun control but the drug cartels don’t pay attention to gun laws.

[Roron123]

Wow! A smart person at long last! You are absolutely correct what about all those people who have died from that Flu in 2020 over 20K and heart attacks, cancer etc but Covid gets a ride on these so that hospitals and medical field get "better payments" UGH! despicable!

[lindaelane]

That is the death rate "to date". You compared it with the death rate for all of 2019.

I completely agree that Covid will probably not result in a really high "excess death rate" when all the data are in, but we have to wait for the date to be in. Then we have to compare like to like, so we should compare the Covid period to a period when we had a bad flu season.

No, I am not committing the heresy of telling people not to take Covid seriously. It kills people - take it seriously.

But google "Great Barrington Declaration" if you would like good sense from professionals at Oxford University about lockdowns.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The Medical Science has evolved as they learned more about the CV. The Science has been very consistent since about June. You can trust Science better than the non-science (nonsense). The non-Science has divided the US into 2 tribes, that for simplicity sake, can be described as "non-masked and masked". Our social media is filled with propaganda - some internal to the US and some external, like mostly Russia. Their objective is to cause wedges to divide America and destabilize her.

Wow, Russia. I didn’t know the Russian’s planted It in China and they got blamed for Covid-19.

[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Fewer people going to work = fewer work-related deaths.
Fewer people travelling for leisure = fewer people dying while on vacation.
Fewer people leaving their homes to drive on their daily routines = fewer people in car accidents resulting in death.
Fewer people leaving their houses at all = fewer gang-related drive-by shootings.
It also means fewer criminals breaking into homes, since they don't know if death is on the other side of the door.

People are afraid to live their normal lives, and other people are cautiously living a life adjusted to reduce the risk of catching a deadly illness. It means there are fewer people out and about, moving targets for death.

Yes, exactly. Could (possible) also see large uptick in 2021 from various medical conditions that people were afraid, or reluctant to address right now fearing doctors' offices, ER's, and hospitals more than what "might" be ailing them ? The future will be interesting, all states are experiencing a greatly reduced demand for gasoline, saving refined fuel, yet, states then suffer greatly from the reduced fuel taxes ! ? Every airplane that does not land and take off, every cruise ship that does not leave a Florida port is a tremendous amount of money the state will NOT have this year. Restaurant, hotel, etc. taxes, all down. How to balance ? Property taxes up perhaps ? Sales taxes raised ? So many dominoes in the line of the virus besides the obvious unemployment, homelessness, etc.

[transplanted]

Originally Posted by jebartle

We are not finished yet!

That doesn't explain the YTD vs 2019 numbers -- only 2 months to go and I doubt it's highly unlikely to significantly increase the ratio in that period of time.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

And if we banned automobiles, the death rate would go down also. And if folks ate less, there would be less deaths attributed to diabetes, high blood pressure and stroke. If we banned alcohol, there would be less deaths related to alcohol abuse, etc, etc. I think the point may be that the virus may or may not have been over exploited, exaggerated, over blown.
I am not suggesting that the virus is a hoax. I am suggesting that maybe some panic stricken folks are over reacting. Or, maybe not. Some of you are hiding under your beds in fear (right or wrong) and demanding others do the same. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the human race will be wiped out by this virus. If you fear the virus, then by all means wear protective gear. Protect yourself. Like I have said over and over again, don't expect me to protect you. I am not being negligent UNLESS I discover that I am infected and still wander about the public without taking protective precautions.
When aids was first discovered, I used plastic utensils when I ate out and straws, rather than drink out of washed glasses or forks. Later, when more information was available I realized that I was taking unnecessary precautions. Folks wouldn't allow their kids to attend school with HIV infected children.
I am glad we are having these discussions, because I have now relaxed my guard a bit regarding the virus scare. I am not discounting masks. I rely more upon social distancing than protective attire. My daily activities have returned to just about normal. I am not wasting my time worrying about something that is less likely to infect me than catching the common cold. And I haven't had a cold in about ten years or so.
Do what you gotta do, but don't stress yourselves out worrying about what other folks are doing.

OK then.....if you don't want to protect me, how about protecting our economy and our way of life as we knew it? Do you see what is happening in some of our cities? They are imposing restrictions AGAIN because this virus is out of control; thanks to people like you.

Secondly, if you find out you are infected, you are supposed to quarantine yourself. You should not be "wandering about in public" even if you are "taking protective precautions".

In closing.....how would you know you are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic if you are not being tested every single day (and hope the tests are accurate)? As you said yourself, you would take precautions if you knew your were infected but you are not taking those same precautions on a daily basis just in case you are infected but don't know it.

Bottom line.... I will never agree with your POV so I'll agree to disagree.

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Automobile accident deaths are down, but suicides are up, drug related deaths are up people who died who were unable to have necessary surgery & people died who were unable to be diagnosed are all up. And murders are actually up in 2020.

Suicide rate is unchanged in 2020. Here is my source, what is yours? In fact, what are your sources for the rest of your claims?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mic-unchanged/

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

OK then.....if you don't want to protect me, how about protecting our economy and our way of life as we knew it? Do you see what is happening in some of our cities? They are imposing restrictions AGAIN because this virus is out of control; thanks to people like you.

Secondly, if you find out you are infected, you are supposed to quarantine yourself. You should not be "wandering about in public" even if you are "taking protective precautions".

In closing.....how would you know you are either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic if you are not being tested every single day (and hope the tests are accurate)? As you said yourself, you would take precautions if you knew your were infected but you are not taking those same precautions on a daily basis just in case you are infected but don't know it.

Bottom line.... I will never agree with your POV so I'll agree to disagree.

Before responding to my post, try reading it.
To make it easier, I will summarize for you. I said I wear my mask ..............never mind. Some folks would rather hide under their beds than reason with logic.
I noticed that you singled out only one line that you seemed to take offense with. By your logic(?) I would have to wear a mask all the time during flu season, also. I am not going to pretend that I am going to coddle folks in their hysteria over this illness. I do not wear a mask during flu season either, and do not intend to UNLESS I have the flu or unless it is mandated. If that offends folks, oh well. Like I said in my post, which seems to have been skipped over, I wear a mask when I feel it is necessary or when a business requests wearing one in order to shop in their store. If I feel it is necessary, I will also wear gloves and eye protection. I maintain my distance when I am able and if not I move along as expeditiously as possible. I don't apologize for giving the appearance of a cold shoulder to those that feel it important to them to demand others "protect" them. It's not my duty or responsibility to "protect" folks that can easily protect themselves. It is not my fault if they wish to walk out into traffic or swim with the sharks. Sorry for not being sorry.
I do not run and get myself tested for COVID when I do not have ANY symptoms. It is a waste of time and money, as well as using up a test that might be needed elsewhere. Hey, like I said before if I become infected and pass, you can say "I told you so." If you wish to protect me, stay at home. If you wish for me to protect you, stay at home. There, for those that need it stated once more my advice and my offer of protection extends only as far as suggesting that you stay at home if you wish a guarantee of being safe.