Don’t let anybody tell you that it’s corporations and businesses that create ...
 

So you're living here...why?

I see the word "free" mentioned several times .... that's the problem. There is no such thing as "free" but social utopians keep trying to achieve that to the detriment of all. Sigh.

Sigh...:agree:
Free, if you do not count as money that all europeans pay 50% or so in taxes, (accdg to my German friend.)

Remember, I said the Danish tax rate is about 60 percent. Denmark is ranked as the happiest nation even with that very high tax rate.

Read that book. It is very interesting.

Ed I am surprised to read the above: Historically economies do better when taxes are low and regulations at a minimum. I believe it is a natural inclination to avoid taxes we all do. In fact I encourage people to do so in every legal mean possible because politicians are irresponsible spenders of our money. Dodd Frank was designed to protect taxpayers supposedly. so what did the gov't just do went right back to the same mortgage guidelines that go us in trouble and not only did they circumvent Dodd Frank they made additional laws that negated what they didn't like about it so that Fed fan could sell mortgages with no don payments, etc. I haven/t gone into detail it would be too much reading in one post. and by the way I support corporation attempts at inversions because it is the only ay to wake up this administration attempt at suffocating business growth

Rubicon. Great post. Again.

Yeah. He's cool. Why is it the sides of this type argument seem to pit logic against emotion? Sums up our political process in a nutshell IMO.

I think you've put your finger on it ... that really is the gist. Emotion/feel good vs reason and what actually works in the real world.

Since you seem to be in favor of "free stuff" for all (presumably non-citizens too).... please give us a list of all the free things you think you and everyone else is entitled to by virtue of having a 98.6 degree body temperature.

We need to know just what it is that we (i.e. the guys who worked, payed taxes and other boring stuff) need to plan for so that we can pay up.

I believe that every single candidate for a Federal Office should have to pass a College Level 101 Economics Final and a College Level " Money and Banking " Final in order to qualify to hold such important positions .
What say you ?

Well, I like the thinking behind this idea even thought it would take a constitutional amendment to do it. The level of economic ignorance is pretty scary actually in that a lot of people think they understand it when they truly don't have a clue.

I would also add, as another requirement, at least two years of active military service. I mean, while we're at it ... :)

And, of course, an official US issued Birth Certificate.

Just the facts!!
 

For those of you who have been protesting that the rich don’t pay their fair share, here are some facts from Newsmax, April, 2013:

“Income tax returns showing an adjusted gross income of $250,000 or more account for only about 2 percent of all returns, according to the report, which was published last year and is largely based on figures from 2010.

These filers’ share of all income is 23 percent, but they account for 53 percent of all income taxes paid. Those earning less than $30,000 account for 23 percent of all income, but as a group they receive more back from the IRS than they pay in income taxes.

The top-earning 10 percent of taxpayers pay 70 percent of all income taxes, up from 55 percent in 1985, while the bottom 90 percent pay 29 percent, down from 45 percent in 1985. In fact, the top 1 percent pay more, 37 percent, than the bottom 90 percent.

The percentage of filers who pay no income taxes has soared from 16 percent in 1969 to 41 percent — 58 million filers in 2010. “

Now please explain to all of us on this blog how the rich are not paying their fair share!!

EXCELLENT idea!!!

right again
 

Rubicon, you are right again. Here is another approach to looking at our economy: While there have been a few minor exceptions to this rule, in the past 6 decades Hauser’s Law has shown that the government takes in right at 19% of GDP. That was true when the tax rate was 92% as it was in 1952-1953 and 28% in 1988-1990. So doesn’t it seem to make sense to drop the corporate and personal tax rates, revitalize the economy and increase our GDP?

Which makes more sense, to shoot for 19% of a 20+ trillion dollar economy or be happy with a GDP in 2013 just short of 17 trillion and an estimated 17 trillion plus a little more for 2014? Of course we can continue to limp along and complain about the rich not paying their fair share and stay where we are!

Others on this blog have suggested that there is a difference between decision making based on feelings and decisions based on common sense. Of course, that is indeed my perspective. Our present economy is struggling because the feelers have out voted the thinkers.

What that says to me is that the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer, and the middle class is disappearing.

And I agree with Eweissenbach.

The ideological/populist myth of Robin Hood sells to common people who feel they are entitled. But the fact that either because of the accident of birth, dumb luck like I tripped into my pond and it was filled with this filthy black stuff that actually turned out to keep the flame in my lanterns lit or hard work rich people will always exist and to believe by punishing them you gain is just not reality. What is more realistic and not a populist favorite is the Sheriff of Nottingham. Now who do you see as the "Sheriff" perhaps the IRS raiding villages and continuing ask for tribute so they can use it to their liking. I mean you have the seen (via movies) the exotic banquets the sheriff arranged for his guest well that chicken to the left of the goose use to belong to me:D

Consumers create jobs. You can build the best ever "mouse trap" and without the consumers you have nothing, except the best mousetrap.

Actually consumers create demand for products that jobs provide to the market. If demand is great enough more jobs will result; however, the consumer did not create the original job that created the product.

Try opening a business with something no one will buy. OH, I forgot you created a job, but it didn't last because there were no consumers to buy the product. Consumers create jobs.

Don’t let anybody tell you that it’s corporations and businesses that create ...
 

What could the consumer buy if the job (making the product) had not already been created by an entrepreneur? The answer is NOTHING! You do not create a job by buying something. The possibility of your purchase has allowed a company to create a job based on the anticipation of your purchase. But if you are only a consumer, you have created nothing...most certainly not a job.

Who pays the salary for the job you speak of? If you had created the job, YOU would pay the salary. (And no...paying for a product does NOT equal paying the worker's salary. Please don't try to make that ridiculous argument.)

I disagree
 

CFrance, I tend to agree with so much of what you have to say, but on this one you and I will never agree. There have been so many postings on this topic that make perfect sense, but to repeat them would only be an exercise in futility. I'm willing to settle for a simple "let's not agree". :)

I should probably just bite my tongue and stay out of this thread but given that I operated at a high level in large banking institutions with numerous responsibilities for over 35 years I can not help myself .
First since about 1970 the far majority of new jobs in the USA have been created by privately held businesses with annual sales up to about $5 Million .
These brave business investors have been battling against tremendously continuously increasing headwinds sent their way by the Federal and various State Governments . As a result of the rapidly increasing regulations over the past decade more and more business owners have been simply gathering and holding onto cash rather than invest in new plant and equipment and adding more employees . Our Nation`s primary job creators are almost universally worn out and beaten down . Especially those who actually manufactured American Made products .
For at least 20 years i ran a private survey of the " mood " of such business owners in a survey area of 5 North East and Atlantic Coast States each quarter .
The goal of our in-house survey was to try to get some insight on the intermediate outlook for business borrowing . I can summarize the collective results with one word . Business owners outlook is " bleak ".
Since about the year 2000 private businesses have been holding onto cash and not reinvesting or expanding their investment in pant and equipment . The cash reserves of these major sources of new jobs has never been this high . Thus their need for Lines of Credit and Term Loans from Commercial Banking Institutions has been at historic lows .
This we find our Nation in economic doldrums and frankly the business outlook numbers and economic health numbers put out by our Federal Institutions has been manipulated to make the numbers appear better than they really are by quietly redefining the criteria used to arrive at the various metrics we are accustomed to seeing which at one time truly reflected the health of our Nation`s economy .
Many will not like what I am trying to convey but I am solid in my data and what I believe it all portends for the future .
Some of you may recall a term which was used post Vietnam to describe what had been a long run of business expansion . The Term was " Stag-flation ". Meaning rampant inflation and a stagnant no growth economy .
Until we make it attractive for our once major US employers to bring back the Trillions of off-shore dollars they have accumulated without any type of onerous taxes we will continue to flounder along .
Frankly in reality there is NO SUCH THING AS Corporate Taxes ----- corporate taxes are passed along to the end user -- the consumer as a component of the retail price for the goods that we purchase .

I think you are missing the point .... consumers indeed provide the demand, in economics 101 terms, but they don't "create" the jobs. That is precisely what a successful business does. Again, the best and most recent example of that is Steve Jobs, Apple and the iPhone. He literally created the market and the jobs ... and consumers are still "demanding" the products. You simply cannot deny the obvious.

Interestingly enough, the famous female person who originally made the claim that business do not create jobs has since retracted it ...ie because even she recognized to argue this makes no sense. A news article from yesterday says this person has “…mopped up her botched statement from a rally in Massachusetts last week, making it clear she’d misspoken."

indeed
 

Well said, BJim. And it is so obvious, isn't it?

Thanks " tedquick " I have always found it sad that so few people in our once Great Nation as heirs to what has been termed " The Noble Experiment " which is our Constitution have such limited and mostly completely misguided knowledge of how our free economy is constructed to operate .
The Federal Gvt was established to " Provide for the Common Defense " and " Promote the general welfare ". The latter statement meaning to provide a means for open trade between the Sates and with foreign Nations . No more .
If you think about it during the early years of our life the Federal Gvt was not really that large as far back as the JFK administration . Most of the programs and special agencies of FDR`s " New Deal " had ceased operation as we entered WWII .
Post WWII the pent up consumer demand and the huge family formation by returning GIs sent our economy into high gear and with no inflation .
The " Guns and Butter " philosophy of the administration which created the " Great Society Programs " began the incessant growth of the Federal Gvt. to the point that it long ago has taken control away from the States and even our localities . This isn`t how the framers of our Federal Gvt designed it to work . And " guess what " it`s not working . It`s bogged down .
The Federal Gvt was supposed to be " the employer of last resort " . However for many years it has been the primary generator of new jobs .

Jim, for your sharp pen articulately substantiating what many of us have tried to say....thanks.

Thank you Buffalo Jim.

Fantastic post!

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

I wish whoever the creator of jobs is would come up here to the midwest and get to work. We could use it.

great post
 

So marvelously well spoken!! Nice work.