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  #11  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:05 PM
Jazuela Jazuela is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
Yes, my question is “what is the definition of fact”? Is it something that we can independently replicate over and over again?
And what is the definition of “truth”?
Fact is something that can be proven.

Truth has more than one definition. One is subjective, the others are not.

Something can be true "for you" and not be factual.

You can believe in a god made out of cream cheese, and therefore, cream-cheese god's existence will be true for you.

But its existence isn't factual, however true it might be for you. A fact is not disputable. In fact (pun intended), facts are often disputed, until all arguments against them are proven false. It's one way (of many) of discerning whether or not something is a fact.

Fact: I have 3 dimes, 2 quarters, and 4 pennies in my purse.
Now, you can call it "a lot of money" if you are a little kid who never gets any money at all. You can call it "don't insult me, keep your damned tip" if you're a waitress being stiffed on a $140 dining check. But the fact remains, it's still 84 cents. That is a fact. You can dispute it, and I'll turn my pocketbook inside out and let you cut it into pieces looking for more change. When you find there is nothing left in there, you will have proven the fact. You don't have to like it - and that would be your opinion, that you're entitled to. But your opinion won't change the fact that it's 84 cents.

  #12  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:06 PM
Jazuela Jazuela is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
Yes, my question is “what is the definition of fact”? Is it something that we can independently under identical circumstances replicate over and over again?
And what is the definition of “truth”?
How do we know what we know?

OP a fact can be relative. Take the temperature of your bath water. Relative to the boiling water in the pot, the bath water is cold. Relative to the icy water in the fridge, the bath water is hot. I am guessing that’s how people manipulate “facts”.
"Cold" vs "Hot" would be opinion, not fact. Fact would be the 105 degree temperature of the water. "Colder" and "Hotter" would be relative fact.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
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Velvet Velvet is offline
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Love your answers. Makes me think.
  #14  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:44 PM
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Taltarzac725 Taltarzac725 is offline
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Crazy Law Facts | Law Teacher

This is amusing.

Now what makes a horse "ugly"?
  #15  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:45 PM
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It was six men of Indostan, to learning much inclined,
who went to see the elephant (Though all of them were blind),
that each by observation, might satisfy his mind.

The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall,
against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl:
'God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!'

The second feeling of the tusk, cried: 'Ho! what have we here,
so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear,
this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!'

The third approached the animal, and, happening to take,
the squirming trunk within his hands, 'I see,' quoth he,
the elephant is very like a snake!'

The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee:
'What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain,' quoth he;
'Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree.'

The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; 'E'en the blindest man
can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!'

The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope,
than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope,
'I see,' quothe he, 'the elephant is very like a rope!'

And so these men of Indostan, disputed loud and long,
each in his own opinion, exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween,
tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean,
and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen!

John Godfrey Saxe
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:47 PM
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Taltarzac725 Taltarzac725 is offline
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Mark Twain quotations - Facts

Mark Twain and facts.

Quote:
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.
- quoted by Rudyard Kipling in From Sea to Shining Sea
  #17  
Old 07-01-2019, 10:03 PM
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ColdNoMore ColdNoMore is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK001 View Post
Snip...>Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong!<...Snip
Which ties into my earlier post where I said... "different people have taken pieces of this fact, to espouse a view that is an incorrect and skewed opinion...."

Had each man been allowed to touch the entire elephant (analogous to researching), their 'opinion' would then more closely align with the fact...that it is an elephant.

It's also a good example of why researching is so important, if someone is actually interested in getting to the truth/fact(s)...versus just going with some "gut-feeling."

Because no matter their opinion (which was based on their limited/incomplete knowledge), the fact that it was an elephant...doesn't change.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2019, 03:08 AM
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jebartle jebartle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco View Post
You seem quite full of anger, and in your anger are talking past the point I try to make.

I am not a philosopher, and that seems to be your direction. And your link, quite frankly was interesting, but if in anyway it is meant to dissuade me, or anyone from wanting facts or searching for truth, it falls seriously short.

On this forum, and in the real world it is quite simple to recognize lying or manipulation of truth. Can we discuss philosophy of truth ? Certainly but that has never, nor can I envision it ever being discussed.

You speak to people "ramming" things down your throat, while I consider it human courtesy that if you are giving your OPINION, based on an occurrence or a settlement, then as a reader I certainly deserve to know about the occurrence, etc. I hope I do not fall short when discussing REAL things, I supply from where I got my basis for an opinion.

You are over thinking the common practice of lying, or deceiving.

If you post on here that PERSON A did not say this or that, and I produce a video of that person saying it, then you lied to everyone in the forum. Of course, we find in today's age that those videos can and are manipulated and that is a caution. If you say something, and it is your opinion on something or somebody, in my world you should supply what generated your opinion. That is civil discourse, and disagreements are based on differing OPINIONS. There can be no civil discourse if based on lies.....flat out impossible

I would always avoid someone who lies, and that is always my premise. I have NEVER questioned an opinion based on truth, disagreed maybe, but never questioned or dismissed.

I may be misunderstanding you, and not sure why you, or anyone would be angry as you seem to be because someone asked you to back up comments.

I am not putting words in your mouth, but you seem to be giving carte blanc approval to misstate things, or lie to people simply because of some philosophical feeling about defining truth.

I can say, with almost 100% accuracy that a liar is a liar. Whether lying by omission or flat out telling things that are not true.

The discussion you are trying to begin is philosophical, and well beyond me. I am sorry for whatever sparked such anger, but I have found in my 80 years that lying is lying.....most know it, and you "appear" to be trying to legitimize someone lying to you.

If this is meant to be philosophical rather than simple human behavior, I apologize. I subscribe to the philosophy of KISS.....and still, perhaps naively that A lie is an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone.
  #19  
Old 07-02-2019, 06:22 AM
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dewilson58 dewilson58 is offline
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I have no facts.




I have no opinions.




Where is my cheeseburger.
  #20  
Old 07-02-2019, 06:28 AM
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fw102807 fw102807 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
Opinion: I love the color of the sky.
Fact: The sky is blue.

Opinion: This dress makes me look fat.
Fact: I am fat.

Opinion: green-eyed people are all lazy.
Fact: there is no biological difference in inherent motivational behavior between green-eyed people and people with any other color eyes.

Opinion: The guy who rammed his golf cart into the Walmart glass door should be in jail.
Fact: The guy who rammed his golf cart into the pickup truck had a defective gas pedal. He committed no crime but he will ultimately be held responsible for the cost to replace the door.

Opinion: I like bees.
Fact: Bees are insects.
Also fact: The person who likes bees in the opinion above is not allergic to bees.

Learn to distinguish between fact and opinion. One is not always necessary in conjunction with the other, but if one is opining about something that can be proven factually correct or incorrect, then one should make some minimal attempt to determine which is which, before expressing one's opinion.
The sky is not always blue, you do not need to stay fat, green eyed people can be lazy, etc. Facts can be based on things that are often fluid. Facts are not absolute truths. In some cases they are not true at all. I do not believe you can rigidly accept all facts as true just because you think the source is credible because that is then opinion. I am not against facts I am against those who belittle others for not believing THEIR facts.
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