[DeanFL]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

WE ALL STAND BESIDE THOSE KIDS. THAT IS THE POINT.

In my 69 years, I have never (or wanted to) taken part in a march, boycott, public demonstration, or anything like those. Sure I have been mad about civil rights, Vietnam, corruption, etc etc. But - I let others handle (or not...) those issues.

Now, might be old age or time on my hands - if our TV Charter School formed a march or such on this issue....I would join them. I'd make my own sign -unknown what I would actually say on it...) and proudly walk along to support those kids and their families. No idea what defensive/safety measures the TV school has taken, but I would bet it's above average to others. Of course from what I read the FL Douglas HS was pretty well prepped.

I have 6.5 g-kids across the USA and they will be/are facing this tough issue every school day. I can only imagine sitting in a classroom with this on your mind. I will not simply sit on my hands if I'm made aware of a march or such. And my intent to join would be simply to be part of the force for intelligent change. And, not focusing on our school or local gvt.

Originally Posted by cologal

Gracie, this movement is in response the Congressmen and Senators who take money from the NRA. Then when another one of these mass shooting all they say is "our thoughts and prayers". Its long past time for action in regard to the AR15.

They need to do something whether it is gun control or more help for mental illness or more power for the FBI to do something about potential risks or more security in the schools or something else but they are doing nothing but wringing their hands and offering platitudes. Yes I blame the politicians that is their job.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Making more laws is ineffective. Laws don't prevent crimes, they define crime and provide for punishment if the perpetrator is caught. This guy violated many laws including having a firearm on school property. Making the school a gun free zone did not stop this crime. More laws will not stop other crimes. Making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms that they want to have for personal protection won't stop criminals from obtaining firearms illegally.

Limiting magazine capacity won't do anything as mags can be changed in a second or less. Banning "assault weapons" was tried and was ineffective, especially since there is no real definition of an assault weapon. Should we ban all semi-automatic weapons? That would involve banning 95% of all the guns that are out there. Then criminals would find a way to get them illegally and law-abiding citizens would be at a disadvantage.

If these killers can't get a gun legally, they will get one illegally, If they can't get a gun, they will find a way to make homemade bombs.

My solution would be to make it mandatory that all teachers, be licensed, trained and armed while at work.

It's a requirement for the police who protect us elsewhere. Why not make it a requirement for those entrusted with protecting our children?

In the case of yesterday's shooting, there was an armed officer at the opposite end of the school. There is no way for one or two officers to be everywhere and it's not often not possible for them to get to a scene in time. In this case, the shooter was familiar with the school and might have selected the location because he knew that the officer would not be close by.

I spent a significant portion of my working life administering security at the White House. I also set up temporary security measures for the President when he traveled. One of my associates was selected to design security measures at the Capitol. My organization provided the first Sky Marshals. I have spent my life working on physical security issues.

With that background, I state confidently that there is no conceivable gun control law that will prevent mass shootings or shootings in schools.

Even in the Secret Service, with physical barriers, video cameras with motion detectors, metal detectors, smoke detectors, nuclear radiation detectors, and door and window alarms, the final defense against intruders and attackers was a trained, armed person.

Thus it must be with schools. They must be enclosed by physical barriers, with access limited to identified people, who go through metal detectors. The access point must be attended by armed security personnel. Other armed personnel must be distributed through the school; they would best be school administrators and teachers who have undergone firearms training and want to be armed. Doing these things is called "hardening the target."

Even this is no guarantee against attacks. Even the White House is periodically assaulted. I have been to the scene where White House Police Officers have had to kill armed intruders.

No gun ban can be fully effective. There are too many guns of all types already in circulation to think that they can all be retrieved and destroyed. Ban a gun and its price goes up on the Black Market.

Quit thinking that a ban on high capacity magazines would help. You can argue back and forth that fewer people would be killed if the shooter had to reload more often, but keep this in mind: Sgt. York killed 25 armed German soldiers in one encounter with a bolt action rifle. And the rifle had to be reloaded after every five rounds.

Forget Australia as a model. We have about three hundred million more people than Australia, and many of those people have multiple guns. You will never get all the guns confiscated.

Don't get hung up on the AR-15. The gun used in the worst mass murder in a school in America was a Glock handgun, with multiple ordinary magazines.

In summary: Harden the target.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by cologal

Gracie, this movement is in response the Congressmen and Senators who take money from the NRA. Then when another one of these mass shooting all they say is "our thoughts and prayers". Its long past time for action in regard to the AR15.

You aren't listening. I don't belong to the NRA or have a gun. But there are plenty decent citizens who do. It is too late to remove guns and probably even if there was legislation to not allow sales of weapons, the cartels would be here selling them to the thugs.

The NRA isn't to blame for these deaths. I would like the option open to buy a gun a learn how to use it if the country continues to encourage hatred. I can't run and I can't fight. I am old.

AGAIN. WHAT is realistic and what is just a lot of talk and movement is two different things. You believe that you are right. I believe that I am right. Neither of us have ever killed or thought to kill in our lives. Encouraging hatred is wrong.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I spent a significant portion of my working life administering security at the White House. I also set up temporary security measures for the President when he traveled. One of my associates was selected to design security measures at the Capitol. My organization provided the first Sky Marshals. I have spent my life working on physical security issues.

With that background, I state confidently that there is no conceivable gun control law that will prevent mass shootings or shootings in schools.

Even in the Secret Service, with physical barriers, video cameras with motion detectors, metal detectors, smoke detectors, nuclear radiation detectors, and door and window alarms, the final defense against intruders and attackers was a trained, armed person.

Thus it must be with schools. They must be enclosed by physical barriers, with access limited to identified people, who go through metal detectors. The access point must be attended by armed security personnel. Other armed personnel must be distributed through the school; they would best be school administrators and teachers who have undergone firearms training and want to be armed. Doing these things is called "hardening the target."

Even this is no guarantee against attacks. Even the White House is periodically assaulted. I have been to the scene where White House Police Officers have had to kill armed intruders.

No gun ban can be fully effective. There are too many guns of all types already in circulation to think that they can all be retrieved and destroyed. Ban a gun and its price goes up on the Black Market.

Quit thinking that a ban on high capacity magazines would help. You can argue back and forth that fewer people would be killed if the shooter had to reload more often, but keep this in mind: Sgt. York killed 25 armed German soldiers in one encounter with a bolt action rifle. And the rifle had to be reloaded after every five rounds.

Forget Australia as a model. We have about three hundred million more people than Australia, and many of those people have multiple guns. You will never get all the guns confiscated.

Don't get hung up on the AR-15. The gun used in the worst mass murder in a school in America was a Glock handgun, with multiple ordinary magazines.

In summary: Harden the target.

Amen!

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I spent a significant portion of my working life administering security at the White House. I also set up temporary security measures for the President when he traveled. One of my associates was selected to design security measures at the Capitol. My organization provided the first Sky Marshals. I have spent my life working on physical security issues.

With that background, I state confidently that there is no conceivable gun control law that will prevent mass shootings or shootings in schools.

Even in the Secret Service, with physical barriers, video cameras with motion detectors, metal detectors, smoke detectors, nuclear radiation detectors, and door and window alarms, the final defense against intruders and attackers was a trained, armed person.

Thus it must be with schools. They must be enclosed by physical barriers, with access limited to identified people, who go through metal detectors. The access point must be attended by armed security personnel. Other armed personnel must be distributed through the school; they would best be school administrators and teachers who have undergone firearms training and want to be armed. Doing these things is called "hardening the target."

Even this is no guarantee against attacks. Even the White House is periodically assaulted. I have been to the scene where White House Police Officers have had to kill armed intruders.

No gun ban can be fully effective. There are too many guns of all types already in circulation to think that they can all be retrieved and destroyed. Ban a gun and its price goes up on the Black Market.

Quit thinking that a ban on high capacity magazines would help. You can argue back and forth that fewer people would be killed if the shooter had to reload more often, but keep this in mind: Sgt. York killed 25 armed German soldiers in one encounter with a bolt action rifle. And the rifle had to be reloaded after every five rounds.

Forget Australia as a model. We have about three hundred million more people than Australia, and many of those people have multiple guns. You will never get all the guns confiscated.

Don't get hung up on the AR-15. The gun used in the worst mass murder in a school in America was a Glock handgun, with multiple ordinary magazines.

In summary: Harden the target.

I'm fine with that I just want to see them do something.

[Sandtrap328]

There is no need for citizens to own AR-15 rifles. They are not hunting guns.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

There is no need for citizens to own AR-15 rifles. They are not hunting guns.

You show your ignorance of the facts. Some states prohibit their use to hunt deer, thinking the projectile carries too little energy for a sure kill. Other states do not.

In addition, they are often equipped with telescopic sights and used as "varmint guns." (Coyotes are one of the frequently targeted varmints.)

And there is a whole class of people who use them to simply punch holes in paper. Target shooting has a long history.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

There is no need for citizens to own AR-15 rifles. They are not hunting guns.

Florida School Shooting: Why Civilians Started Buying AR-15s | Time

This semiautomatic version of the U.S. military’s M-16 infantry rifle and similar weapons have been used in most of the deadliest mass shootings in the last decade, including the one at Sandy Hook Elementary School. In some states like Florida, they’re easier to buy than a handgun.

[Abby10]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I spent a significant portion of my working life administering security at the White House. I also set up temporary security measures for the President when he traveled. One of my associates was selected to design security measures at the Capitol. My organization provided the first Sky Marshals. I have spent my life working on physical security issues.

With that background, I state confidently that there is no conceivable gun control law that will prevent mass shootings or shootings in schools.

Even in the Secret Service, with physical barriers, video cameras with motion detectors, metal detectors, smoke detectors, nuclear radiation detectors, and door and window alarms, the final defense against intruders and attackers was a trained, armed person.

Thus it must be with schools. They must be enclosed by physical barriers, with access limited to identified people, who go through metal detectors. The access point must be attended by armed security personnel. Other armed personnel must be distributed through the school; they would best be school administrators and teachers who have undergone firearms training and want to be armed. Doing these things is called "hardening the target."

Even this is no guarantee against attacks. Even the White House is periodically assaulted. I have been to the scene where White House Police Officers have had to kill armed intruders.

No gun ban can be fully effective. There are too many guns of all types already in circulation to think that they can all be retrieved and destroyed. Ban a gun and its price goes up on the Black Market.

Quit thinking that a ban on high capacity magazines would help. You can argue back and forth that fewer people would be killed if the shooter had to reload more often, but keep this in mind: Sgt. York killed 25 armed German soldiers in one encounter with a bolt action rifle. And the rifle had to be reloaded after every five rounds.

Forget Australia as a model. We have about three hundred million more people than Australia, and many of those people have multiple guns. You will never get all the guns confiscated.

Don't get hung up on the AR-15. The gun used in the worst mass murder in a school in America was a Glock handgun, with multiple ordinary magazines.

In summary: Harden the target.

Thank you, Carl. Your wisdom and experience are always appreciated by many of us on TOTV.

[schrdr]

I see all the TV media sticky their mics into the faces of kids to parrot the anti gun message. They are so outraged but were was their outrage when they bullied this kid in school. They helped create this monster. Bullying is a common thread to all these monsters. Spare me the indication.

You will never hear this point discussed in our media

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by DeanFL

here we go, yet again. We live in a large free country with many diverse people, and some have serious mental or social issues. As is the case in this latest one.

I am a true Independent and believe in different sides of all issues facing us in the USA. But the gun issue is one that I have steadily moved to the "Something has GOT to be done" side. Seems as if the Gun Control laws in many areas such as Chicago do not work. Perhaps it's enforcement matter or simply the Black Market or purchasing elsewhere and bringing them into the 'war zone'.

What truly saddens me is the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons and mass lethal ammo. How these weapons can be obtained at gun shows etc without checks or such is maddening. No idea where this perp got his weapons - or how he afforded them. But he did and apparently many knew he had them.

Then we come to the Social ills. Mental issues. Little family structure. The violent video games. And more..

Apparently this young man has had multiple run-ins, friends knew of his issues, social media postings and such.

We can protect our schools and buildings just so much. If they want to get in they will. And now - the fire alarm matter - what to do now...how to have students obey an alarm or not??? How can students concentrate on classes?

Sad for our country and the people that were impacted by this and other events. But one thing for sure this will be a big topic for weeks....then a memory....then another. repeat - UNTIL SOME PEOPLE CAN MAKE REAL CHANGES THAT HAVE SOME IMPACT.

You can not by semi-automatic rifles, or any guns at a gun show without a background check. That is a myth. The only time a background check is not needed is when a firearm is being transferred a member of the immediate family.

What could be done to all but eliminate school shootings is to require that every teacher and administrator be licensed, trained and armed while at school. That would stop 90% or more of the shootings. On the rare occasion that it might be tried this would minimize the damage by having several people who are able to take out the shooter before he could shoot more innocent victims.

The police protect the citizens by being armed, our politicians are protected by people with guns, we protect our money and sometimes out stores with armed guards. Are our children not important enough to protect with armed guards?

The reason that it should be teachers and administrators doing this is simply economics. No school, system, municipality or state would be able to pay enough armed guards to make a school safe.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

You can not by semi-automatic rifles, or any guns at a gun show without a background check. That is a myth. The only time a background check is not needed is when a firearm is being transferred a member of the immediate family.

What could be done to all but eliminate school shootings is to require that every teacher and administrator be licensed, trained and armed while at school. That would stop 90% or more of the shootings. On the rare occasion that it might be tried this would minimize the damage by having several people who are able to take out the shooter before he could shoot more innocent victims.

The police protect the citizens by being armed, our politicians are protected by people with guns, we protect our money and sometimes out stores with armed guards. Are our children not important enough to protect with armed guards?

The reason that it should be teachers and administrators doing this is simply economics. No school, system, municipality or state would be able to pay enough armed guards to make a school safe.

The underlined above...is totally incorrect.

Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

There is no need for citizens to own AR-15 rifles. They are not hunting guns.

Yes, they are used for hunting.

[Steve9930]

Some facts are nice to have: School shootings in the United States - Wikipedia