[Fredster]

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee

Unfortunately, so true. As a nation we have become immune to violence even when it comes to killing children! Sad commentary on our country!

There has been immunity to violence around for a long time.
Many years ago I used to drive into Chicago from the suburbs daily.
I would listen to the news on my car radio,
and one monday morning a newscaster said there
were seven shooting deaths
over the weekend.
The thought occurred to me that this happened so often,
that people just accepted it as a way of life.
And sadly it still goes on!

[mscocco]

Sadly these types of incidents have been on the rise and I fear it will only continue to get worse. I see two key reasons that back up my statement. First off, these sick individuals are attracted to the possibility and power of inflicting mass casualties. Doing so gives them a very powerful feeling, gets more media coverage, makes a bigger impact, and drives their own infamy. Secondly, our lax gun laws essentially make it very easy for them to purchase the very tools needed - semi-automatic, fast firing weapons with high capacity magazines. Firing 45 rounds a minute has the potential to inflict much more damage than 6 or 8 rounds a minutes or a small clip that requires reloading after a few shots.

I question the real need in a public realm for semi-automatics (rifle OR handgun) and don't consider sensible limitations any infringement on 2nd amendment rights. It just seems that if you take away the ease with which someone can carry out a mass shooting then it's reasonable to think the number of these will go down. Could an alternate arise, such a s homemade bombs? Sure but I think this is harder to carry out and also the damage potential is likely more limited and may even be more likely they'd be caught before carrying it out.

We must put politics aside and in some case make compromises for consideration of safety in this crazy world. There are many, many responsible gun owners out there but availability and accessibility to these mass casualty weapons, to me, are a simple place we can start in trying to reduce the number of children and innocent people that are getting slaughtered. How those guns are restricted or limited is open for discussion but more guns doe not equal a safer world. It just doesn't work that way and countries all around the world have already proven that.

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Very debatable.

What’s your point?

OK so how do you feel that this can be resolved without legislation?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Reports in the last few hours indicate the shooter was involved with a white supremicist group.

Alleged Gunman Nikolas Cruz Was in White Supremacist Group | Time

Florida school shooter belonged to white supremacist group, leader claims | TheHill

While I endorse making it more difficult to buy guns, I do agree that we should be looking more "inward" to address the hate that preoccupies our country, and certain of us that have a need to express our hate for groups, etc.

Social media is giving a platform to so many "haters" among us, who in a hateful manner simply reject other human beings. Many have, and will, take that hate to the next level.

Gun control..sure. Hate and visicious conversation is a refelection of what is happening in our country.

I have also read that he READ things from Militant Islamic groups too. I don't know if that means he was involved and I am not defending him.

I have never, ever, in my entire life met anyone who was a KKK supporter. The Southern Poverty Center says that there are less than 5000 of KKK people in the United States and that is 5000 too many.

When we exaggerate any fact, we add fuel to hatred and become part of the problems of the world.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I have also read that he READ things from Militant Islamic groups too. I don't know if that means he was involved and I am not defending him.

I have never, ever, in my entire life met anyone who was a KKK supporter. The Southern Poverty Center says that there are less than 5000 of KKK people in the United States and that is 5000 too many.

When we exaggerate any fact, we add fuel to hatred and become part of the problems of the world.

Obviously I was not clear with my post.

While I read nothing about any Muslim groups ever...my post has NOTHING to do with Muslims or the KKK at all, as you turned it.

I simply was pointing out that our country is so involved in hate, no it matters not who you hate, but the key is our society has become...let's say..."NOT TOLERANT" of anyone who might not have the same feelings as others

Social platforms allow an outpouring of this hate, and if anyone is "on the edge", the constant "hatespeak" will effect them and perhaps move them to this kind of action.

My mind NEVER went to any specific group as yours did, and whether you were "defending" anyone or anything means little.

We are a country that just have stopped understanding or even trying. We just verbally show hate, and some WILL take it to more than just words.

That was not my point. Heck, more kids have been killed in school shootings than by terrorists, BY FAR. I am sure I am not verbally qualified to get my meaning across, but let's understand...our country is filled with hate...we need to recognize those who show signs of turning the hate into action.

Again, my entire purpose was to agree with those who say that reducing guns alone will not solve the problem. These are children....we, as adults should show some qualities that they should aspire to. These children have no knowledge of politics BUT they sure can identify hate.

[GoodLife]

Firing 45 rounds a second

Uh no

[EPutnam1863]

Nothing will change anything. Mental illnesses and mental disorders will never ever be erased from this earth. We cannot arrest anyone unless a crime is actually committed so identifying predictors would be only useless.

Originally Posted by EPutnam1863

Nothing will change anything. Mental illnesses and mental disorders will never ever be erased from this earth. We cannot arrest anyone unless a crime is actually committed so identifying predictors would be only useless.

Other countries have had good success with addiction, mental health and gun violence. But people in our country are more interested in rights than responsibilities.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by stan the man

This thread should be closed..... to political and controversial

Obviously i disagree. Only one post even ventured near political talk.

Killing our children is NOT controversial, or at least I do not think so. If those who make the laws will not discuss it, and we are told it is "controversial" then where are we.

Some think is all about guns....others think it is all about mental health, and others, my self included, feel it is a combination of the two, but if where are going to ignore it and bury our heads, more children are destined to die.

Words will never solve this problem, but based on our history, once the words stop, it all stops.

Why even take a chance at having your grandchildren go through what those kids went through yesterday ?

Everyone gets all "bent out of shape" when americans take to the street to march for a cause yet they refuse to even entertain the idea of, in this case, a discussion of and modification of gun laws or mental health laws, BOTH OF WHICH by the way are overwhelmingly supported in all polls I have ever seen.

I still believe that our society has become blind and deaf to anything and any disagreements are not discussed but simply met with more "hate speech" defined as "speech expressing hatred of a particular group of people"

Our young kids deserve better. They look to adults to provide some kind of structure.

I, for one, am sick of seeing kids suffer like this. I think there should be a national conversation and if "gun control" is an offensive term to some, make it a conversation on "protecting our children from death AT school"

The frustration is building in this country. Lots of Americans are simply ignored and dismissed. This is an important issue in this country and to simply say, "lets not talk about it" is not something we want to pass on to our kids. The young kids will learn history in school. They look to the so called adults.

This can be discussed without poliltics and if it cannot then perhaps those who cannot should examine themselves just a bit.

Thus far this year, 18 school shootings and in this short century we have lost to bullets over 300 children simply because they went to school that day.

THAT is not political nor is it "controversial" in my opinion. Children, not at war....Children, not in a war zone....some how it seems we need to have this conversation.

I agree that perhaps TOTV is not the proper place, but it is NOT political and every forum in this country should be talking about it, not in a political way but with real feelings for our precious children.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by fw102807

Other countries have had good success with addiction, mental health and gun violence. But people in our country are more interested in rights than responsibilities.

Philip Mudd, last night had to leave the set because of his tears.

He is former national director of the National Security Branch, and the first ever, and that only means he has "been around the block" a few times.

He said..."“A child of god is dead. Can not we acknowledge in this country that we can’t, we cannot accept this?”

"“We refuse to accept that we can learn from other countries,” he added. “It’s not that complicated.”

This is NOT political, or at least should not be, and again....I am not speaking of GUNS ALONE....but....

Protecting our children in school and help in providing example.

[bob47]

Originally Posted by mscocco

Sadly these types of incidents have been on the rise and I fear it will only continue to get worse. I see two key reasons that back up my statement. First off, these sick individuals are attracted to the possibility and power of inflicting mass casualties. Doing so gives them a very powerful feeling, gets more media coverage, makes a bigger impact, and drives their own infamy. Secondly, our lax gun laws essentially make it very easy for them to purchase the very tools needed - semi-automatic, fast firing weapons with high capacity magazines. Firing 45 rounds a minute has the potential to inflict much more damage than 6 or 8 rounds a minutes or a small clip that requires reloading after a few shots.

I question the real need in a public realm for semi-automatics (rifle OR handgun) and don't consider sensible limitations any infringement on 2nd amendment rights. It just seems that if you take away the ease with which someone can carry out a mass shooting then it's reasonable to think the number of these will go down. Could an alternate arise, such a s homemade bombs? Sure but I think this is harder to carry out and also the damage potential is likely more limited and may even be more likely they'd be caught before carrying it out.

We must put politics aside and in some case make compromises for consideration of safety in this crazy world. There are many, many responsible gun owners out there but availability and accessibility to these mass casualty weapons, to me, are a simple place we can start in trying to reduce the number of children and innocent people that are getting slaughtered. How those guns are restricted or limited is open for discussion but more guns doe not equal a safer world. It just doesn't work that way and countries all around the world have already proven that.

This sounds eminently logical to me. But the NRA will tell you that more guns in more hands will make us all safer. You can't predict when somebody who is OK today may go off the deep end in the future. That's why you have to be reasonable in what tools are available to the citizens to do harm.

The poster that shows how weapons have evolved over 200 years makes a good point. Add to that there are many more citizens now and we've become an urban society, and the situation is totally different than when the bill of rights was written. But I suppose we'll just continue to send our thoughts and prayers because that's easier than having a mature, logical analysis and perhaps making some changes.

[Abby10]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Obviously I was not clear with my post.

While I read nothing about any Muslim groups ever...my post has NOTHING to do with Muslims or the KKK at all, as you turned it.

I simply was pointing out that our country is so involved in hate, no it matters not who you hate, but the key is our society has become...let's say..."NOT TOLERANT" of anyone who might not have the same feelings as others

Social platforms allow an outpouring of this hate, and if anyone is "on the edge", the constant "hatespeak" will effect them and perhaps move them to this kind of action.

My mind NEVER went to any specific group as yours did, and whether you were "defending" anyone or anything means little.

We are a country that just have stopped understanding or even trying. We just verbally show hate, and some WILL take it to more than just words.

That was not my point. Heck, more kids have been killed in school shootings than by terrorists, BY FAR. I am sure I am not verbally qualified to get my meaning across, but let's understand...our country is filled with hate...we need to recognize those who show signs of turning the hate into action.

Again, my entire purpose was to agree with those who say that reducing guns alone will not solve the problem. These are children....we, as adults should show some qualities that they should aspire to. These children have no knowledge of politics BUT they sure can identify hate.

Seriously? You need to re-read your first post. (post#15) You specifically brought up white supremacists. That is a group, right? Unless you are referring to something else, your statement in bold above makes no sense.

To Gracie's point, I also read where the gunman's social accounts showed a fascination with Isis/Islamic extremism, but to be honest I just glossed over it because I don't believe enough evidence is available yet to prove anything regarding any affiliation with any group.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Obviously I was not clear with my post.

While I read nothing about any Muslim groups ever...my post has NOTHING to do with Muslims or the KKK at all, as you turned it.

I simply was pointing out that our country is so involved in hate, no it matters not who you hate, but the key is our society has become...let's say..."NOT TOLERANT" of anyone who might not have the same feelings as others

Social platforms allow an outpouring of this hate, and if anyone is "on the edge", the constant "hatespeak" will effect them and perhaps move them to this kind of action.

My mind NEVER went to any specific group as yours did, and whether you were "defending" anyone or anything means little.

We are a country that just have stopped understanding or even trying. We just verbally show hate, and some WILL take it to more than just words.

That was not my point. Heck, more kids have been killed in school shootings than by terrorists, BY FAR. I am sure I am not verbally qualified to get my meaning across, but let's understand...our country is filled with hate...we need to recognize those who show signs of turning the hate into action.

Again, my entire purpose was to agree with those who say that reducing guns alone will not solve the problem. These are children....we, as adults should show some qualities that they should aspire to. These children have no knowledge of politics BUT they sure can identify hate.

Well stated.

The other important thing that some people have a problem grasping is that the KKK is only one....of many hate/white supremacist groups.

In fact, the SPLC has identified almost 1,000 different 'hate' groups.

And the focus of these groups hate, runs the gamut from religion to skin color to yes...even politics (regardless of which side of the aisle one stands).


Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center


In this latest atrocity, one has to ask how someone who is three years away from legally purchasing alcohol...can legally buy a weapon that is primarily meant for only one purpose?

[Bogie Shooter]

One big roadblock to an honest discussion....NRA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Firing 45 rounds a second

Uh no

Please point me to the post claiming..."45 rounds a second."

Thank you.