Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   Florida lawmakers working on bill to limit support of emotional support animals. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/florida-lawmakers-working-bill-limit-support-emotional-support-animals-300444/)

Velvet 12-03-2019 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1698868)
What law are you referring to when you say it is "illegal" to say your animal is a service dog? As I understand the Federal ADA law, anyone can self-train a dog to perform a task and then self-certify that the dog is a service animal. No other certification is required. Also, no documentation is required. There are only 2 questions that someone can ask about the dog. Is the dog a service animal? And, what task has it been trained to perform? That is the problem with the ADA law.
What a hock! imagine if that’s how we got our driver’s license. But, officer ... I’m self certified....

l2ridehd 12-03-2019 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1698868)
What law are you referring to when you say it is "illegal" to say your animal is a service dog? As I understand the Federal ADA law, anyone can self-train a dog to perform a task and then self-certify that the dog is a service animal. No other certification is required. Also, no documentation is required. There are only 2 questions that someone can ask about the dog. Is the dog a service animal? And, what task has it been trained to perform? That is the problem with the ADA law.
You need to go read the ADA because that statement is just not factual.

dadspet 12-03-2019 12:17 PM
Sorry if I sound like a scrouge but I have to voice my opinion which I think is also the opinion of many of the quite majority. More and more people are abusing emotional support and more of us should take issue with it. I don't like or want a dog next to me in a movie or clearly in a restaurant or airplane. I have no issue at all with real service dogs but this idea of emotional support is out of hand and being abused by pet owners who think everyone loves their pet. These people are rude, inconsiderate of others and tend to create unsanitary conditions. I have real trouble understanding why anyone would become a servant to their dog and wheel them around in a carriage or take them into a crowded situation like the square or store where they have to constantly keep them out of the way of people (although many of these owners seem to think the pet has the priority and you should stay out of their way). There was even one Villages restaurant that advertised they will serve your dog > WOW, my reply to them was we don't eat in any restaurant that serves dog food, they shortly stopped that advertisement. We have had our share of dogs and would never have considered putting them in some of the situations we see "Emotional pets" in today.

retiredguy123 12-03-2019 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd (Post 1698874)
You need to go read the ADA because that statement is just not factual.
I'm not sure what is inaccurate. Here is a link with frequently asked questions about the ADA law.

Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA

l2ridehd 12-03-2019 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1698880)
I'm not sure what is inaccurate. Here is a link with frequently asked questions about the ADA law.

Frequently Asked Questions about Service Animals and the ADA
And no where does it say a self trained and self certified animal is considered a legal service animal. In fact it states just the opposite.

Brynnie 12-03-2019 03:56 PM
I'm continually amazed at the lengths people will go to to bring their pets everywhere they go. Animals have their place--and it isn't in grocery stores and restaurants. I witnessed a woman trying to bring her dog into Carrabba's Restaurant. When the hostess asked her for her papers proving the dog is a service animal, the woman left in a huff. Emotional support animal? Come on! If businesses don't start cracking down on this trend, it's going to get out of hand. Some people are like children; they'll test the system until they suffer the consequences.

Bucco 12-03-2019 04:13 PM
1. This is confusing. The link in the OP refers to an article which references the law passed in 2006 to allow restaurants to permit dogs in outdoor seating, and the abuse of that law is permitting. It does address so called service dogs.

2. This thread is discussing a complete opposite bill that is introduced to satisfy the ongoing problem of folks calling their dogs "service animals" to keep from paying a fee for animals in condos apartment buildings.

You say you have an '''emotional support’ animal? This bill says, ‘Not so fast.’

They are very specific situations but all involve the law in Florida....which clearly states...

"The ADA defines a service animal as a dog that is individually trained to perform tasks or do work for the benefit of a person with a disability. (In some cases, a miniature horse may also qualify as a service animal under the ADA.) The tasks or work the animal does must be directly related to the person’s disability.

Neither law covers pets or what some call “emotional support animals”: animals that provide a sense of safety, companionship, and comfort to those with psychiatric or emotional disabilities or conditions. Although these animals often have therapeutic benefits, they are not individually trained to perform specific tasks for their handlers. Under the ADA and Florida law, owners of public accommodations are not required to allow emotional support animals, only service animals (including psychiatric service dogs).

Florida Laws on Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals | Nolo).

It appears on the surface we are speaking of business's that are not enforcing. The laws on the books seem clear to me on how to handle this, but it requires business owners to step up

All the laws I researched seem clear but be wary that these laws vary slightly from state to state.

It looks like the pressure should be brought to bear BY THE BUSINESS owners.

Discussion on what the law says or does not say is easily found, but it will do nothing is not enforced.

retiredguy123 12-03-2019 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd (Post 1698933)
And no where does it say a self trained and self certified animal is considered a legal service animal. In fact it states just the opposite.
"Q5. Does the ADA require service animals to be professionally trained?
A. No. People with disabilities have the right to train the dog themselves and are not required to use a professional service dog training program."

So, if someone trains his or her own dog to do a task, and they don't need to do anything but to say what task it can do, how is that "illegal"? In my opinion, that makes it a legal service animal.

Topspinmo 12-03-2019 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1698688)
Something needs to be done to change the Federal ADA law. My brother is legally blind and is on his third highly trained seeing eye dog. He could not get around without his dog, and his dogs have more than once saved his life by pulling him away from oncoming traffic (blind people can’t hear those dam electric vehicles approaching). Until the last couple of years no one has ever questioned his seeing eye dog and they have always been welcome at all public places. More recently he is frequently questioned and some places have tried to deny them access. This is because all the people with fake service dogs have managed to deledgitimentize acceptance of real service dogs. In my opinion people who try to pass fake service dogs as being ledgitiment should be punished as criminals.

I agree. If you need emotional support from animal 🦔 it’s mental problem. The blind IMO are the only true service dogs other than very few who medical condition may need animal to sense emergency which would be very low number like same odds as winning pick 5 lotto game. Which means if you see one other than with blind person it’s miracle.

Topspinmo 12-03-2019 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karostay (Post 1698766)
Same old story a few ruin it for all They have to pass legislation and hopes it curbs abuse
How many times has legislation curbs abuse? ??????? I can’t think of one.

Topspinmo 12-03-2019 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix (Post 1698691)
I think the only emotional support animal that should be allowed is a shmoo.

A shmoo is shaped like a plump bowling pin with stubby legs. It has smooth skin, eyebrows, and sparse whiskers—but no arms, nose, or ears. Its feet are short and round, but dexterous, as the shmoo's comic book adventures make clear. It has a rich gamut of facial expressions and often expresses love by exuding hearts over its head. Cartoonist Al Capp ascribed to the shmoo the following curious characteristics:

They reproduce asexually and are incredibly prolific, multiplying faster than rabbits. They require no sustenance other than air.
Shmoos are delicious to eat, and are eager to be eaten. If a human looks at one hungrily, it will happily immolate itself—either by jumping into a frying pan, after which they taste like chicken, or into a broiling pan, after which they taste like steak. When roasted they taste like pork, and when baked they taste like catfish. Raw, they taste like oysters on the half-shell.
They also produce eggs (neatly packaged), milk (bottled, grade-A), and butter—no churning required. Their pelts make perfect bootleather or house timbers, depending on how thick one slices them.
They have no bones, so there's absolutely no waste. Their eyes make the best suspender buttons, and their whiskers make perfect toothpicks. In short, they are simply the perfect ideal of a subsistence agricultural herd animal.
Naturally gentle, they require minimal care and are ideal playmates for young children. The frolicking of shmoos is so entertaining (such as their staged "shmoosical comedies") that people no longer feel the need to watch television or go to the movies.
Some of the more tasty varieties of shmoo are more difficult to catch, however. Usually shmoo hunters, now a sport in some parts of the country, use a paper bag, flashlight, and stick to capture their shmoos. At night the light stuns them, then they may be whacked in the head with the stick and put in the bag for frying up later on.
Sounds like the movie gremlin’s? And know how those lovable pets turned out. Also I think you been taking on snip hunting trip? :shocked::1rotfl:

rmd2 12-03-2019 05:42 PM
I was on a flight and fell asleep. I awakened to a feeling of wetness on my arm and saw the the dachsund on the lap of a man next to me was licking my arm. The man was apparently ok with this because he made a slight adjustment but left the dog essentially where he was initially. I consider this unsanitary. You never know where that dog had previously licked.

IUFAN 12-04-2019 07:33 AM
support dogs
 
In training ??????? What is up with that.

jacksonbrown 12-04-2019 07:50 AM
Robot Check

does not make a "service" dog.

brick010207 12-04-2019 10:43 AM
GET A LIFE! There are so many important issues that the legislature could be spending their time on than to respond to a FEW people with nothing better to do! There has to be a middle ground. Go to Europe (my experience is in Germany). You'll find dogs in all kinds of public places including restaurants and bars on a regular basis. I personally don't take my dog to those places on a regular basis but there have been times when I am out and need to make a quick stop at Publix and my 10# dog is with me in the care that it would be nice to take her in with me as a matter of convenience but I don't even though I've seen people in there with theirs. We don't need legislation to do the right thing. Our legislature needs to be spending time on fixing Education, Medical Care, Cost of living, Infrastructure, Global Warming, etc, etc, etc..

My 2 cents worth

graciegirl 12-04-2019 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick010207 (Post 1699122)
GET A LIFE! There are so many important issues that the legislature could be spending their time on than to respond to a FEW people with nothing better to do! There has to be a middle ground. Go to Europe (my experience is in Germany). You'll find dogs in all kinds of public places including restaurants and bars on a regular basis. I personally don't take my dog to those places on a regular basis but there have been times when I am out and need to make a quick stop at Publix and my 10# dog is with me in the care that it would be nice to take her in with me as a matter of convenience but I don't even though I've seen people in there with theirs. We don't need legislation to do the right thing. Our legislature needs to be spending time on fixing Education, Medical Care, Cost of living, Infrastructure, Global Warming, etc, etc, etc..

My 2 cents worth
I have a life and I think your reaction is also extreme.

The businesses who must balance this are afraid of being sued because of the ADA and before any thoughts enter your mind, believe me when I say I fully understand what having a handicap means.

It isn't fair for people to bring their emotional support animals anywhere that would be a bother to others. The dear animals do not have a vote and bear the brunt of their owners bad judgement.

golfing eagles 12-04-2019 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick010207 (Post 1699122)
GET A LIFE! There are so many important issues that the legislature could be spending their time on than to respond to a FEW people with nothing better to do! There has to be a middle ground. Go to Europe (my experience is in Germany). You'll find dogs in all kinds of public places including restaurants and bars on a regular basis. I personally don't take my dog to those places on a regular basis but there have been times when I am out and need to make a quick stop at Publix and my 10# dog is with me in the care that it would be nice to take her in with me as a matter of convenience but I don't even though I've seen people in there with theirs. We don't need legislation to do the right thing. Our legislature needs to be spending time on fixing Education, Medical Care, Cost of living, Infrastructure, Global Warming, etc, etc, etc..

My 2 cents worth
Yeah, right. Let's have a menagerie wherever we go and focus on global warming---what a joke:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Rapscallion St Croix 12-04-2019 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick010207 (Post 1699122)
GET A LIFE! There are so many important issues that the legislature could be spending their time on than to respond to a FEW people with nothing better to do! There has to be a middle ground. Go to Europe (my experience is in Germany). You'll find dogs in all kinds of public places including restaurants and bars on a regular basis. I personally don't take my dog to those places on a regular basis but there have been times when I am out and need to make a quick stop at Publix and my 10# dog is with me in the care that it would be nice to take her in with me as a matter of convenience but I don't even though I've seen people in there with theirs. We don't need legislation to do the right thing. Our legislature needs to be spending time on fixing Education, Medical Care, Cost of living, Infrastructure, Global Warming, etc, etc, etc..

My 2 cents worth
You have overvalued.

CFrance 12-04-2019 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick010207 (Post 1699122)
GET A LIFE! There are so many important issues that the legislature could be spending their time on than to respond to a FEW people with nothing better to do! There has to be a middle ground. Go to Europe (my experience is in Germany). You'll find dogs in all kinds of public places including restaurants and bars on a regular basis. I personally don't take my dog to those places on a regular basis but there have been times when I am out and need to make a quick stop at Publix and my 10# dog is with me in the care that it would be nice to take her in with me as a matter of convenience but I don't even though I've seen people in there with theirs. We don't need legislation to do the right thing. Our legislature needs to be spending time on fixing Education, Medical Care, Cost of living, Infrastructure, Global Warming, etc, etc, etc..

My 2 cents worth
Europe is Europe and here is here. (How's that for depth?) When in Rome...


The point is frauds are making it hard on the people who really need a service dog. And the law is making it easy on the frauds.

golfing eagles 12-04-2019 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1699200)
Europe is Europe and here is here. (How's that for depth?) When in Rome...


The point is frauds are making it hard on the people who really need a service dog. And the law is making it easy on the frauds.
And there is a tremendous amount of fraud. The problem is utilizing the family physician as the gatekeeper for a letter to allow ESAs. It is very hard to say no to these requests, and most physicians just give it to their patient. Personally, I never signed a letter for an ESA, instead I told the patient that if their mental health problem is so extensive that they cannot be separated from their furry friend even for a trip to the grocery store, then they need to see a psychiatrist who is more qualified to evaluate their request. Surprise, surprise---not one of the dozens of patients that I made this offer to ever made the appointment. I guess their need for a four legged furball wasn't as dire as they first described.

New Englander 12-04-2019 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1699200)
Europe is Europe and here is here. (How's that for depth?) When in Rome...


The point is frauds are making it hard on the people who really need a service dog. And the law is making it easy on the frauds.
:agree:

Jdmiata 12-04-2019 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckcapaul (Post 1698595)
I have no problem with a service dog going where it needs to. But too many are claiming "emotional support animal" just to take a pet with them.
I agree. Service dogs are a great thing. But some abuse the “support” thing.

OrangeBlossomBaby 12-04-2019 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdmiata (Post 1699236)
I agree. Service dogs are a great thing. But some abuse the “support” thing.
If they use the "support" term to explain why their pet is where it is, then by definition they are abusing the "support" thing. That's because a support animal is not a service animal. When a store says "service animals welcome" it is excluding emotional support animals. An "emotional support" animal is not trained to do anything in particular, at all. It's just a pet with a fancy name.

A service animal is trained to perform specific tasks on behalf of someone who is disabled.

fsusix 12-05-2019 07:43 PM
About TIME
 
It is such a disgrace - and abuse - I've seen dogs in the tag office - sitting on the seats - we have to sit on - I did write and they did say they talked to the guy and it was not a support dog. My husband has Parkinson - tripping over a leash is so dangerous - Dog owners THINK everyone is there to give (THEM) or attention to their dog. I am allergic to dogs - where do my rights come into play here?!? I've seen people bring dogs into the grocery store - in the basket that we all have to use - yes there are wipes - but can you wipe down the entire cart? This is being abused - and when we have asked the manager why they don't do something - their answer was - we are not ALLOWED to ASK them by law if they have papers and if it is a service dog. Please change and enforce this to protect and respect the rights of all. I have no problems with a 'real' service dog - they are well trained - behave and sit on the floor - helping their owner. I'd say it's about time a law is passed and hope it is enforced.
NO to 'emotional' support dogs - only SERVICE DOGS!

OrangeBlossomBaby 12-05-2019 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsusix (Post 1699597)
It is such a disgrace - and abuse - I've seen dogs in the tag office - sitting on the seats - we have to sit on - I did write and they did say they talked to the guy and it was not a support dog. My husband has Parkinson - tripping over a leash is so dangerous - Dog owners THINK everyone is there to give (THEM) or attention to their dog. I am allergic to dogs - where do my rights come into play here?!? I've seen people bring dogs into the grocery store - in the basket that we all have to use - yes there are wipes - but can you wipe down the entire cart? This is being abused - and when we have asked the manager why they don't do something - their answer was - we are not ALLOWED to ASK them by law if they have papers and if it is a service dog. Please change and enforce this to protect and respect the rights of all. I have no problems with a 'real' service dog - they are well trained - behave and sit on the floor - helping their owner. I'd say it's about time a law is passed and hope it is enforced.
NO to 'emotional' support dogs - only SERVICE DOGS!
No they don't have the right to ask for proof of their dog's training. But they DO have the right to require that the dog remain on the floor, leashed, and in close proximity to its owner at all times. Service dogs are trained to NOT jump up on the chairs, and "on duty" service dogs are not found in baskets or strollers or their owner's arms.

The term is "four on the floor." If this isn't happening, then the manager of the store has the RIGHT to kick the dog and its owner out.

CFrance 12-05-2019 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1699258)
If they use the "support" term to explain why their pet is where it is, then by definition they are abusing the "support" thing. That's because a support animal is not a service animal. When a store says "service animals welcome" it is excluding emotional support animals. An "emotional support" animal is not trained to do anything in particular, at all. It's just a pet with a fancy name.

A service animal is trained to perform specific tasks on behalf of someone who is disabled.
I agree, a support animal is not a service animal. Every pet I ever had was a support animal.

graciegirl 12-06-2019 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1699630)
I agree, a support animal is not a service animal. Every pet I ever had was a support animal.
Me too.

I think that you and Barefoot and Nonie and DBussone and Nucky and Dillywho (to name a few) love their animals as they should be loved but I have never seen any of you cross any lines of common sense and respect for others. I think it is because you want everyone to love them.

asianthree 12-06-2019 03:29 PM
On our 6th visit in a month at VA hospital, large sign at every entrance

SERVICE DOGS only. All others will be asked to leave.

Rapscallion St Croix 12-06-2019 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 1699789)
On our 6th visit in a month at VA hospital, large sign at every entrance

SERVICE DOGS only. All others will be asked to leave.
If a dog has the ability to understand a request to leave and can make a decision to comply or not, they should be allowed to stay.

Velvet 12-06-2019 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix (Post 1699791)
If a dog has the ability to understand a request to leave and can make a decision to comply or not, they should be allowed to stay.
Nope. Seriously what is so hard to understand about the definition of a “service” animal? It is not an obedient pet, it is not a therapy dog, it is not an emotional support dog, it is not a rescued dog, it is not a show dog with a pedigree. What can’t people understand about that? Please explain it to me.

graciegirl 12-07-2019 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1699815)
Nope. Seriously what is so hard to understand about the definition of a “service” animal? It is not an obedient pet, it is not a therapy dog, it is not an emotional support dog, it is not a rescued dog, it is not a show dog with a pedigree. What can’t people understand about that? Please explain it to me.
Velvet. You are new here so I must point out that Rapscallion is almost always tongue-in-cheek, poking fun, and pulling on our legs.

Except when he held an enormous job for years serving our country. (That is just a guess but I am a good guesser) He is also as old as I am, (and God) and he is clever and witty and the ornery boy in the back of the class. He made his mother turn gray early and diligently worked for years saving this world from awful people.

CFrance 12-07-2019 08:06 AM
Do a search for Rapscallion and you'll find some pretty funny stuff.

ckcapaul 12-07-2019 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1699872)
Do a search for Rapscallion and you'll find some pretty funny stuff.
We can all use some levity, from time to time.

Carry on :a040:

Velvet 12-07-2019 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1699869)
Velvet. You are new here so I must point out that Rapscallion is almost always tongue-in-cheek, poking fun, and pulling on our legs.

Except when he held an enormous job for years serving our country. (That is just a guess but I am a good guesser) He is also as old as I am, (and God) and he is clever and witty and the ornery boy in the back of the class. He made his mother turn gray early and diligently worked for years saving this world from awful people.
My bad, thank you Gracie for pointing out the wit, misread his post. He sounds like a fun person.

DonH57 12-07-2019 08:50 AM
I'm on the fence about this one. It would be hard to part with my emotional support squirrel.

golfing eagles 12-07-2019 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1699815)
Nope. Seriously what is so hard to understand about the definition of a “service” animal? It is not an obedient pet, it is not a therapy dog, it is not an emotional support dog, it is not a rescued dog, it is not a show dog with a pedigree. What can’t people understand about that? Please explain it to me.
"What can't people understand about that?" Two easy explanations:
1) Like Judge Judy says, "You can't fix stupid"
2) In the Villages, you can't fix "entitlement":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

daystogo 12-07-2019 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfnj (Post 1698649)
agreed and keep their smelly emotional support butts off the chairs and tables that people have to sit on and eat on too. So rude and unsanitary.
thank you

Pilodent 12-09-2019 07:58 PM
Isn't that in conflict with federal law?

OrangeBlossomBaby 12-09-2019 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilodent (Post 1700513)
Isn't that in conflict with federal law?
It would result in a conflict, yes. The only way to enforce a limit on support animals, is to require proof that the animal is a registered, certified, or licensed service animal. And it's not legal to require proof that it's a licensed service animal.

So they'd have to try and change the laws of the ADA. States are not allowed to legislate changes to those laws.

retiredguy123 12-09-2019 09:15 PM
Who issues a registration, certification, and/or license for a service animal? As I understand the ADA, you can train the animal yourself, and no one can ask you for any documentation.


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