Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1341612)

Social Security was never meant to be a livable wage either but time has changed that concept.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1341717)

Time cannot change a concept. People have changed the concept and this new concept is wrong. Everyone is not entitled to make a livable wage.

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe (Post 1341395)

May I suggest that the problem is that there are jobs which exist that were never meant to provide an income that would cover the cost of living, yet expectations for these jobs have changed? And why is that? Yes, people lost jobs and are still losing them, but they are turning the wrong way if they expect to flip burgers at McDonald's for a living and thinking that should pay their rent. We are also "carrying" people who made decisions and can't/won't face the consequences of their decisions. This is a much larger issue but relates IMO in some way to the current minimum wage discussions

I am not suggesting that businesses aren't part of the problem either. Many companies don't provide pensions anymore, there are businesses which don't hire full time employees so they don't have to worry about benefits, and that does provide a burden on people to hold down more than one job. If you need more than one part time job, then get a second job. Is it easy for me to say? Yes, but then again, I already lived through "my pains" so I can speak to my experience.

Part of the problem is that there are expenses which are truly optional-it might be ideal to have them, but you can live without them. Rent, food, utilities and some form of medical insurance are a must. Owning a car, having a cell phone (a landline is still an option with an answering machine), having cable TV can all be eliminated. If you live where there is bus service to a subway, you take those means of transportation (if either fit in your budget) or you walk/ride a bike (granted, this may be less of an option for an older person). You could also share the cost of a house or apartment rental and get a roommate.

Whatever the minimum wage is, there is still a lack of context in terms of the number of hours that someone works at that scale. A 40 hour work week at $15/hour is $31,200. If no employer will hire for more than 30 hours a week,you are down to $23,400.

Ultimately we all pay the price one way or another and I merely suggest that some "may choke when they get their bill".

Originally Posted by rubicon (Post 1341678)

Thomas Sowell defined the minimum wage as $0.

The market in each community and industry should determine the value of a worker and the market is based on among other things supply and demand . I read recently read where the Job guy who has a television show said that they cannot get people to do trade type jobs. Welders he said were paying up to $140,000.
So, either potential employees do not want trade jobs , don't desire to apprentice or they do not have the motivation or employable skills to perform them

Employers are also subjected to supply and demand and as such you cannot artificially alter this equation without consequences and certainly not without increases in productivity.

Making such demands as we deserve an increase in...is tantamount to giving every kid a trophy just because s/he showed up for the game

Too many people have been brained wash by this entitlement mentality and have such do not understand that value is based on successful and productive improvement.

when I was a kid I parked myself at the Personnel Office every morning for three months begging for a sweepers job in a factory because I was married and going to college nights. I recognized that all I had then was desire to offer an employer. I suspect many reading this post have similar stories.

Personal Best Regards: