[tedquick]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I went to the "Personal Liberty Digest" and couldn't find your facts. Could you point me in the right direction?

I have saved a 4-page copy of the report from that date in my Global Warming file. How might I get that to you? PM? email? I will PM you with my email address. If you'd like I will forward that particular file.

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by Rags123

I have no dog in this fight, but this story is over FIVE YEARS OLD and has been debunked...see Snopes, Wikipedia or your fact check of choice.

Sorry Rags - I've got so many of these hoax rebuttals saved. Try this more recent one:



>> (<----- internet quoting - not MY prose)


Opinion | Brainerd Dispatch...

By Rolf Westgaard
In 1988, the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations established the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to evaluate world climate research, and to forecast global temperatures to the end of the 21st Century.

The IPCC is now funded by 195 countries who also contribute scientific personnel to the effort. Since 1988, the IPCC has issued four major Assessment Reports, the last in 2007, which projected continued global warming at 0.2C degrees per decade. The 2007 report stated that this warming was “very likely” due to human release of green house gases, and that one result would be storms such as hurricanes of greater intensity. The report also forecast a decline in Antarctic sea ice.

The IPCC is expected to release a summary of its widely anticipated Fifth Assessment Report on Friday. There are several problems for the IPCC as that report appears.

The most important is that since 1997, there has been no statistically significant increase in global temperatures, despite a continued rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide, the most important human generated global warming gas.

September 10 marked the peak of the Atlantic hurricane season, and so far 2013 is one of the quietest hurricane seasons in memory. 2013 also marks the eighth consecutive year when no force 3 or stronger hurricane has made landfall on the U.S. mainland, the longest such period in a century.

A recent study in the journal Nature Climate Change by Francis Zwiers and colleagues at the University of Victoria, British Columbia, found that models such as those used by the IPCC have overestimated warming by 100 percent over the past 20 years.

A major calculation by the IPCC is the equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS), the amount of warming induced by a doubling of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The 2007 report gave a “likely” minimum figure of 2 degrees celsius (2C), with a probable value of 3C for the doubling of carbon dioxide. The preliminary 2013 Assessment lowers the “likely” minimum increase to 1.5C with no probable value forecast.

Finally, Antarctica sea ice extent set an all-time record of 19.51234 million sq km on Sept. 14, 2013. And at the other pole, as of Sept. 15, 2013, Arctic sea ice extent was approximately one million square miles greater than on the same date in 2012.

One of the new Assessment’s own authors, Professor Myles Allen, the director of Oxford University’s Climate Research Network, said recently that this should be the last IPCC assessment – accusing its cumbersome production process of ‘misrepresenting how science works.’ Dr Benny Peiser, of the Global Warming Policy Foundation, described leaked information from the new report as a ‘staggering concoction of confusion, speculation and sheer ignorance.’

Professor Judith Curry, head of climate science at Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said the Fifth Assessment is showing that ‘the science is clearly not settled, and is in a state of flux.’ She added that the IPCC projections are ‘overconfident.’ especially given the report’s admitted areas of doubt.

Many of the sponsoring nations have already submitted concerns about the new Fifth Assessment, leading with the IPCC’s failure to account for the current warming pause. A meeting in Stockholm is being held by 40 of the Fifth Assessment’s authors with nation representatives to discuss possible revisions.

The unwieldy and expensive IPCC assessment process may have run its course. There is a strong case that climate forecasting is more art than science. We don’t even know if carbon dioxide is a warming threat, or simply photo synthesis plant food which contributes to increased agricultural productivity.

Rolf E. Westgard is a professional member of the Geological Society of America and teaches classes on climate and energy for the University of Minnesota Lifelong Learning program. His current class is “3 Billion Years of Minnesota Climate and Geologic History; from Volcanoes to Metals.”

<<

[Challenger]

Worthwhile read
Alex Epstein
"The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels"

[blueash]

Originally Posted by tedquick

Global Warming made up of lies

Fact: when the volcano, Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.

Non Fact and scientifically wrong

Volcanic CO2 | Open Mind

Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

Global Warming Misinformation - Volcanoes Emit More CO2 Than Humans

Eruption Corruption

What's the carbon footprint of ... a volcano? | Environment | The Guardian

Do you want more?

Fact: the earth has 800-year temperature cycles of heating and cooling which have been recurring since long before there was gas, oil or coal to blame.

Partly true but completely misleading. The question is not have there always been fluctuations (although your choice of 800 years is unsupported there have been variations in climate. Once the poles were tropical, Once there were ice sheets to Ohio) The question today is are we seeing a period of rapid change which has serious implications for humans and how much of those changes are man made. And what if anything should be done to deal with those changes

Fact: the planet has actually cooled 0.7 degrees in the last century

.



Again wrong. See the graph at the bottom of this post. Please in the interest in not calling the other side liars, I have been posting real charts real data and the climate deniers have posted no data, just repeated claims that this is a hoax, and follow the money. All I know about money is that the oil and gas industry has spent a lot of money to obfuscate and has bought a lot of politicians.

But then facts must never stand in the way of an agenda. Since billions of dollars will be made if/when tax & trade becomes law it is shamefully naïve to expect an “honesty awakening” in Washington or in the press rooms of America. The climate-change problem is a truth problem. Lies repeated often enough mysteriously become “the truth”, so I understand Mr. Ryan’s belief. It’s just that what he believes is wrong.

The irony is that this paragraph is accurate but it is the deniers who have an agenda. The tobacco industry told all of us how great cigarettes were for our health and that the science was bogus. Same reason, protect their industry and their product. So my challenge, which I have issued previously on this forum is to produce the data for your 'facts'.

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

We do have control over what pollutants go into the sky in this country. Granted not a whole lot at an individual basis. The polar ice caps are melting and something can be done about that. Whether or not the cycles are 10,000, or 100,000 or whatever span of years. The human element has had a huge impact in the last 100 years or so.

Bingo! You are soooooo right. Yes, the icebergs ARE melting and that is threatening the existence of polar bears.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that all these nuclear tests, the wars and ongoing bombings, smoke from fires, automobile exhausts, even something as seemingly insignificent as a fireplace . . . all these things go into the atmosphere. All these things contribute to global warming, climate change or whatever else you want to call it.

It's real folks -- make no mistake about it!

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

...threatening the existence of polar bears...

[TNLAKEPANDA]

There is No such thing as GW.... It is all hype to gain control and make money!

[Bonanza]

Quote:


Originally Posted by Bonanza View Post

...threatening the existence of polar bears...

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Sorry. No personal intent meant!

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA

There is No such thing as GW.... It is all hype to gain control and make money!

Not so sure about that.......as our weather has been totally unpredictable seasonally, from one extreme to another.

We've actually seen our pattern of seasonal weather change.....

Since 1970 (when the seasons were quite predictable in Vermont), it was pretty easy to determine what type of weather each season would produce...........NOT SO ANYMORE. Big big changes, especially the last twenty years.......perhaps longer.

Winter, obviously, always had cold temps & snow.
But by January 15, the January winter thaw would arrive, like clockwork.

Not so anymore.

We've gone through many winters that were RAINY......an entire generation of little ones never got to use their sleds nor skiis.

Winters became even more WET rather than snowy.......with flooding because of the heavy rains on top of frozen ground.......everyone began putting in French drains.......then it would go to the other EXTREME & we all began getting ice dams or jams on our roofs, under the shingles.....so everyone began putting on ice glides.........we've definitely experienced a sea change in the way the weather used to be predictable to now being haphazard or just plain strange at times, out of season.

May was always the most beautiful spring month with the lilacs, apple blossoms, etc., etc..........now it is often rainy. Lots of rain.

In the earlier times, summers were also predictable with MAYBE ONE HEAT WAVE in the summer.........no one had air conditioning like we all have now. A brief summer thunderstorm would cool things down...........this past summer, it rained from morning till night........on many occasions. Summers are HOTTER & RAINIER.

Autumns were also another glorious month back when the weather was more predictable (as the seasonal norm) but lately, autumn has become more rainy.......knocking the beautifully colored leaves from the trees prematurely.........JUST LOTS MORE RAIN.

So many weather pattern changes up here.....over the years......

However, this winter, the snow has returned, with the sub zero temps.

My husband cannot tolerate the HEAT. All of a sudden, the past few years, he loves the Arctic blast of cold.......go figure.
It's become a battle of the thermostats........I raise them; he lowers them.

Four seasons are really nice......as each only last for three months.
Then we can all complain about the next season.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA

There is No such thing as GW.... It is all hype to gain control and make money!

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view, the people on this forum will not be around in fifty years to confirm our our own personal opinions. The next generation will either laugh at our non validated concerns or be coping with climate change and associated disruption in their lives.

Place your bets people.

[Cisco Kid]

The way the news is now a days.
We will likely kill our selves off before it becomes a problem.

[tedquick]

tomwed & blueash -- First off I thank both of you for your questions regarding my original post. Everything that I post, I do with the belief that it is accurate and that it is the truth. The information in my post was taken from a variety of articles that I had collected over time. Not in all cases did I verify the veracity of those pieces. Since reading your posts I have spent a fair amount of time reviewing, reading and investigating other sources to support my original post. I have found it fascinating (and actually very frustrating) that I find all the proof anyone would ever want that there is indeed global warming, only to find in other places that the data being used has been corrupted, or that those reports have been discredited. And then I find proof there is no global warming with those “facts” being questioned with the same level of believability as the others.

So what *is* the truth? I don’t really know, but I have attached 3 graphs (if I did it correctly) that show that at least in recent years there has actually been cooling, not warming, which is what I recall was the concern in the 70s (I think it was the 70s).

OK, I guess I'm an idiot since I have been unable to copy and paste my 3 graphs onto this site. (And it can't even be that difficult). Any help would be embarrassingly welcomed.

We will probably never positively know the whole truth (about global warming) until after it has either happened or it hasn't. We’ll all be dead and gone. Perhaps we’ll be discussing this in the great beyond; shaking hands, shaking our heads and just wishing that “those kids down there” would get it figured out.

So that all of you know, I want my posts to reflect the truth. Like tomwed and blueash, should you ever question what I post, feel free to query.

Make it a great rest of the week!!

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by tedquick

tomwed & blueash -- First off I thank both of you for your questions regarding my original post. Everything that I post, I do with the belief that it is accurate and that it is the truth. The information in my post was taken from a variety of articles that I had collected over time. Not in all cases did I verify the veracity of those pieces. Since reading your posts I have spent a fair amount of time reviewing, reading and investigating other sources to support my original post. I have found it fascinating (and actually very frustrating) that I find all the proof anyone would ever want that there is indeed global warming, only to find in other places that the data being used has been corrupted, or that those reports have been discredited. And then I find proof there is no global warming with those “facts” being questioned with the same level of believability as the others.

So what *is* the truth? I don’t really know, but I have attached 3 graphs (if I did it correctly) that show that at least in recent years there has actually been cooling, not warming, which is what I recall was the concern in the 70s (I think it was the 70s).

OK, I guess I'm an idiot since I have been unable to copy and paste my 3 graphs onto this site. (And it can't even be that difficult). Any help would be embarrassingly welcomed.

We will probably never positively know the whole truth (about global warming) until after it has either happened or it hasn't. We’ll all be dead and gone. Perhaps we’ll be discussing this in the great beyond; shaking hands, shaking our heads and just wishing that “those kids down there” would get it figured out.

So that all of you know, I want my posts to reflect the truth. Like tomwed and blueash, should you ever question what I post, feel free to query.

Make it a great rest of the week!!

Wish all posters were this intellectually honest- !!

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by tedquick

tomwed & blueash -- First off I thank both of you for your questions regarding my original post. Everything that I post, I do with the belief that it is accurate and that it is the truth. The information in my post was taken from a variety of articles that I had collected over time. Not in all cases did I verify the veracity of those pieces. Since reading your posts I have spent a fair amount of time reviewing, reading and investigating other sources to support my original post. I have found it fascinating (and actually very frustrating) that I find all the proof anyone would ever want that there is indeed global warming, only to find in other places that the data being used has been corrupted, or that those reports have been discredited. And then I find proof there is no global warming with those “facts” being questioned with the same level of believability as the others.

So what *is* the truth? I don’t really know, but I have attached 3 graphs (if I did it correctly) that show that at least in recent years there has actually been cooling, not warming, which is what I recall was the concern in the 70s (I think it was the 70s).

OK, I guess I'm an idiot since I have been unable to copy and paste my 3 graphs onto this site. (And it can't even be that difficult). Any help would be embarrassingly welcomed.

We will probably never positively know the whole truth (about global warming) until after it has either happened or it hasn't. We’ll all be dead and gone. Perhaps we’ll be discussing this in the great beyond; shaking hands, shaking our heads and just wishing that “those kids down there” would get it figured out.

So that all of you know, I want my posts to reflect the truth. Like tomwed and blueash, should you ever question what I post, feel free to query.

Make it a great rest of the week!!

I have a program named printscreen and it is free and comes from Gadwin. Whatever you see on your screen can be turned into a photo that is stored in a file. By default the files name is printscreen and stored in your documents folder or it might be you photo folder.
I have the same problem when it comes to research. If it's .edu,.gov,.org it moves up my list for credibility. The other day I read 97% of all scientists believe in global warning. I think that was quoted by Al Gore. He's a Harvard graduate and won the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in global warming. So I'm thinking if Gore said "97%" his research team must have verified it before he said it. But I kept getting information showing how that statistic is incorrect.
I'm fortunate that my oldest son has a PHD in mechanical engineering from Johns-Hopkins and his last 2 years were at Stanford. So I can just ask him to explain the science behind most things. Sometimes I even understand him [just kidding].

[quirky3]

Just yesterday, Pope Francis made this statement regarding global warming:

"I don't know if it (human activity) is the only cause, but mostly, in great part, it is man who has slapped nature in the face," he said. "We have in a sense taken over nature."

"I think we have exploited nature too much," Francis said, citing deforestation and monoculture. "Thanks be to God that today there are voices, so many people who are speaking out about it."