[Miles42]

everything changes, not always for the good.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by blueash

I am a white cis gendered male over a certain age and there are lots of things I miss about the 50's. Strong labor unions, an America that was moving toward income equality, two sane major political parties, inexpensive higher education, but is was a culture of white male superiority. And we have moved the needle a little bit and have very far to go. I am very aware of how white privilege and male privilege benefitted me. It still does. So not all white males are blind to the truth or are wishing it were still the same.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I remember the fifties a lot differently -- it was a time of great fear because of the A-bomb. Women rarely worked outside of the home and, if they did, it was usually in a subservient role. Even professional women were pushed into the lesser roles (attorneys for estate planning, trusts, family law; physicians were ob-gyns) most of the time. It was okay for a male to have pre-marital sex and extra-curricular marital affairs were to be bragged about. A female was shamed. Minorities were kept in their place, separate but equal was the way of life, lynchings were common. It was acceptable to beat your wife so long as the stick was no bigger than the width of your thumb. Not only could parents spank their children, so could your neighbor or the principal and some of those spankings were flat out beatings. Sexual abuse was common and the girl was nearly always at fault, even if only ten. Miscegenation was a crime. So was homosexuality. And so on and so forth. The fifties were a time of violence, fear, cruelty and bigotry.

A lot of the values such as hard work, honesty, respect, trust are still prevalent today. Yes, the language is rougher today, chivalry towards females is gone, some of the niceties have disappeared. Even so, I'll take today's world. It's a lot more honest and, in many ways, kinder.

Spot on . . . great post.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Exactly!


If you are a white male and a particular demographic over a certain age, I'm sure that you look back to the 50's...and wish things were still the same.


If you're a female or minority...not so much.

Thank you.

My parents got married in 1957. When my mother married my father, the company she worked for had two shifts working in the office. My mother worked the day shift in the office before she married my father. The company rule in 1957 was that if a single female employee got married, she had to transfer to the night shift in the office within 90 days of marriage or leave the company. Most newlywed female employees did not want to work the night shift, so they quit. The underlying message was that the company was discouraging married women from being employees. When my mother told me this many years ago, I couldn't believe an employer could get away with this. But employers could in 1957.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Fraugoofy

Although I was not born until 1968, I find young people today much kinder in many ways than kids I grew up with.

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

??? Teen who punched principal in face gets sweet deal from judge | New York Post

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

??? Teen who punched principal in face gets sweet deal from judge | New York Post

I was dating a fellow employee from Information Access Company (Belmont, CA) who lived in Richmond, CA. She was African-American and a volunteer singer with the Oakland Chorus. She introduced me to her father a teacher at a Richmond, CA high school who had been on a long break because he was attacked by a student. This was around 1984. This has been happening for a long time that students get violent towards their teachers.

I do not believe that student got off lightly though.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I remember the fifties a lot differently -- it was a time of great fear because of the A-bomb. Women rarely worked outside of the home and, if they did, it was usually in a subservient role. Even professional women were pushed into the lesser roles (attorneys for estate planning, trusts, family law; physicians were ob-gyns) most of the time. It was okay for a male to have pre-marital sex and extra-curricular marital affairs were to be bragged about. A female was shamed. Minorities were kept in their place, separate but equal was the way of life, lynchings were common. It was acceptable to beat your wife so long as the stick was no bigger than the width of your thumb. Not only could parents spank their children, so could your neighbor or the principal and some of those spankings were flat out beatings. Sexual abuse was common and the girl was nearly always at fault, even if only ten. Miscegenation was a crime. So was homosexuality. And so on and so forth. The fifties were a time of violence, fear, cruelty and bigotry.

A lot of the values such as hard work, honesty, respect, trust are still prevalent today. Yes, the language is rougher today, chivalry towards females is gone, some of the niceties have disappeared. Even so, I'll take today's world. It's a lot more honest and, in many ways, kinder.

I would argue that there were millions of women who did not share your point of view during the 1950s.

Among them would be those women who had been forced out of their preferred feminine roles as housewives and homemakers to work in the various defense industries during the 1940s, building airplanes, tanks, arms and munitions for our military forces engaged in a world-wide armed struggle that we were by no means assured we would win.

During World War II, American women demonstrated their ability to perform in the mechanical crafts and trades which had previously been closed to them, and they developed a new pride and self-confidence in their abilities. But, most of them preferred to removed to the traditional "feminine" roles of the pre-war era; and most did, welcoming home their husbands, and expecting to again be the ruler of their households while their husbands brought home a paycheck.

One of the greatest aspirations of our military men returning to civilian life was to settle down with a wife and family in their own home, working at a good job, and enjoying life.

Technology which was developed in war time found civilian applications which blossomed quickly into "modern conveniences" such as tape recorders, AM/FM transistor radios, and television. The 1950s was also characterized by the introduction of a wide variety of automobiles, and the American romance with cars began a decades-long love affair.

You mention lynchings, but you fail to mention that the Civil Rights Movement took wing in the 1950s, with such events as Brown vs. Board of Education, Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and the rise of Martin Luther King, Jr., as leader of the Civil Rights Movement. By the 1950s the Armed Forces had been ordered integrated, and minorities were moving into the supervisory ranks.

I don't know where you lived in the 1950s, but in none of the places where I lived was wife beating legal or accepted.

You properly decry the disparity in moral values between sexual promiscuity of men and women in the 1950s, but seem to feel that lowering the standard for women was the proper solution, while there are those of us who argue that raising the standard for men would have been the proper solution.

In the 1950s, I was a white, male, heterosexual teenager with a beautiful high school sweetheart who I later married, and a nice late model car to ride around in for trips to church, parties, and the beach. I did well in high school, attended church regularly, grew up in a two-parent family, with a younger brother who also did well.

I was aware of alcohol and drugs, but did not use them. I had a part time job in which I worked with a Black male who I considered a friend. I lived in a city in which White, Black, Italian and Spanish influences were all in evidence. I read a weekly newspaper that had articles written in English, Italian and Spanish. I ate "soul food," Italian food, Cuban food, and lots of sea food.

And I was happy.

Clearly, we have very different memories of the 1950s.

[affald]

The 1950s were horrible. The Mob controlled chigago and the murder rate in 1958 was a crazy 5.4 per 100,000.


Much better now with a more advanced progressive society.


27.2 murders per 100,000 in 2016, can't wait to see the 2017 numbers.

27.2 ÷ 5.4 = murder rate 5 TIMES higher.

Does not get any better, life is great today, much better than the 50's.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by affald

The 1950s were horrible. The Mob controlled chigago and the murder rate was a crazy 5.4 per 100,000.


Much better now with a more advanced progressive society.


27.2 murders per 100,000 in 2016, can't wait to see the 2017 numbers.

27.2 ÷ 5.4 = murder rate 5 TIMES higher.

Does not get any better, life is great today, much better than the 50's.

DING, DING, DING. My Sarcasm Detector just went off.

[Schaumburger]

Acccording to the Washington Post and Marine Corps Times, a female officer (a lieutenant) will make history next week when she becomes the first woman to graduate from the Marine Corps’ 84 day Infantry Officer Course.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I would argue that there were millions of women who did not share your point of view during the 1950s.

Among them would be those women who had been forced out of their preferred feminine roles as housewives and homemakers to work in the various defense industries during the 1940s, building airplanes, tanks, arms and munitions for our military forces engaged in a world-wide armed struggle that we were by no means assured we would win.

During World War II, American women demonstrated their ability to perform in the mechanical crafts and trades which had previously been closed to them, and they developed a new pride and self-confidence in their abilities. But, most of them preferred to removed to the traditional "feminine" roles of the pre-war era; and most did, welcoming home their husbands, and expecting to again be the ruler of their households while their husbands brought home a paycheck.

One of the greatest aspirations of our military men returning to civilian life was to settle down with a wife and family in their own home, working at a good job, and enjoying life.

Technology which was developed in war time found civilian applications which blossomed quickly into "modern conveniences" such as tape recorders, AM/FM transistor radios, and television. The 1950s was also characterized by the introduction of a wide variety of automobiles, and the American romance with cars began a decades-long love affair.

You mention lynchings, but you fail to mention that the Civil Rights Movement took wing in the 1950s, with such events as Brown vs. Board of Education, Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and the rise of Martin Luther King, Jr., as leader of the Civil Rights Movement. By the 1950s the Armed Forces had been ordered integrated, and minorities were moving into the supervisory ranks.

I don't know where you lived in the 1950s, but in none of the places where I lived was wife beating legal or accepted.

You properly decry the disparity in moral values between sexual promiscuity of men and women in the 1950s, but seem to feel that lowering the standard for women was the proper solution, while there are those of us who argue that raising the standard for men would have been the proper solution.

In the 1950s, I was a white, male, heterosexual teenager with a beautiful high school sweetheart who I later married, and a nice late model car to ride around in for trips to church, parties, and the beach. I did well in high school, attended church regularly, grew up in a two-parent family, with a younger brother who also did well.

I was aware of alcohol and drugs, but did not use them. I had a part time job in which I worked with a Black male who I considered a friend. I lived in a city in which White, Black, Italian and Spanish influences were all in evidence. I read a weekly newspaper that had articles written in English, Italian and Spanish. I ate "soul food," Italian food, Cuban food, and lots of sea food.

And I was happy.

Clearly, we have very different memories of the 1950s.

Women's Rights in the 1950s | Our Everyday Life

In many states women's property rights were still restricted.

In some states women could not make contracts, including wills. They also could not sell property and in many cases they could not control their own earnings. All of these were the legal right of the woman's husband or father.

In almost every state, men had the right to have sex with their wife any time they wanted to, with or without her consent.

There was, in other words, no such thing as rape if a couple was married

, and any form of birth control was still illegal in many places. The combination of these two meant that a woman was almost legally obligated to have children if her husband wanted them.

And this is considered 'the good old days?'

[Schaumburger]

Set just after the 1950's (the early 1960's), watch the movie "Hidden Figures" and see what these women went through and how they were treated on the job with NASA. So glad I didn't start working full-time until the early 1980's, and I still saw and heard things 34 years ago that are not tolerated in today's workplace.

[CowBubba]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I would argue that there were millions of women who did not share your point of view during the 1950s.

Among them would be those women who had been forced out of their preferred feminine roles as housewives and homemakers to work in the various defense industries during the 1940s, building airplanes, tanks, arms and munitions for our military forces engaged in a world-wide armed struggle that we were by no means assured we would win.

During World War II, American women demonstrated their ability to perform in the mechanical crafts and trades which had previously been closed to them, and they developed a new pride and self-confidence in their abilities. But, most of them preferred to removed to the traditional "feminine" roles of the pre-war era; and most did, welcoming home their husbands, and expecting to again be the ruler of their households while their husbands brought home a paycheck.

One of the greatest aspirations of our military men returning to civilian life was to settle down with a wife and family in their own home, working at a good job, and enjoying life.

Technology which was developed in war time found civilian applications which blossomed quickly into "modern conveniences" such as tape recorders, AM/FM transistor radios, and television. The 1950s was also characterized by the introduction of a wide variety of automobiles, and the American romance with cars began a decades-long love affair.

You mention lynchings, but you fail to mention that the Civil Rights Movement took wing in the 1950s, with such events as Brown vs. Board of Education, Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and the rise of Martin Luther King, Jr., as leader of the Civil Rights Movement. By the 1950s the Armed Forces had been ordered integrated, and minorities were moving into the supervisory ranks.

I don't know where you lived in the 1950s, but in none of the places where I lived was wife beating legal or accepted.

You properly decry the disparity in moral values between sexual promiscuity of men and women in the 1950s, but seem to feel that lowering the standard for women was the proper solution, while there are those of us who argue that raising the standard for men would have been the proper solution.

In the 1950s, I was a white, male, heterosexual teenager with a beautiful high school sweetheart who I later married, and a nice late model car to ride around in for trips to church, parties, and the beach. I did well in high school, attended church regularly, grew up in a two-parent family, with a younger brother who also did well.

I was aware of alcohol and drugs, but did not use them. I had a part time job in which I worked with a Black male who I considered a friend. I lived in a city in which White, Black, Italian and Spanish influences were all in evidence. I read a weekly newspaper that had articles written in English, Italian and Spanish. I ate "soul food," Italian food, Cuban food, and lots of sea food.

And I was happy.

Clearly, we have very different memories of the 1950s.

your wrong carl, but you sound just like my father so I defer further comment.

[CowBubba]

Originally Posted by CowBubba

You for sure are an example of what is produced by white privilege. I don't doubt that you are a decent American, but I am positive that you would make a determination in a criminal investigation by using race, religion and faith to help you with your final determination.

I edited.

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I would argue that there were millions of women who did not share your point of view during the 1950s.

Among them would be those women who had been forced out of their preferred feminine roles as housewives and homemakers to work in the various defense industries during the 1940s, building airplanes, tanks, arms and munitions for our military forces engaged in a world-wide armed struggle that we were by no means assured we would win.

During World War II, American women demonstrated their ability to perform in the mechanical crafts and trades which had previously been closed to them, and they developed a new pride and self-confidence in their abilities. But, most of them preferred to removed to the traditional "feminine" roles of the pre-war era; and most did, welcoming home their husbands, and expecting to again be the ruler of their households while their husbands brought home a paycheck.

Many women that I talked to of that era were proud that they had been to work, become skilled. Some were thrilled to go back to being a housewife, some were not. Today, women have a choice. Not only can they work, but they can work in the profession of their choice. The only limitations are physical abilities. Personally, I believe that if a family can afford it, there should be no stigma to a man or woman staying home and running the household.

One of the greatest aspirations of our military men returning to civilian life was to settle down with a wife and family in their own home, working at a good job, and enjoying life.

This aspiration forced many women back into a role they did not cherish.

Technology which was developed in war time found civilian applications which blossomed quickly into "modern conveniences" such as tape recorders, AM/FM transistor radios, and television. The 1950s was also characterized by the introduction of a wide variety of automobiles, and the American romance with cars began a decades-long love affair.

You mention lynchings, but you fail to mention that the Civil Rights Movement took wing in the 1950s, with such events as Brown vs. Board of Education, Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, and the rise of Martin Luther King, Jr., as leader of the Civil Rights Movement. By the 1950s the Armed Forces had been ordered integrated, and minorities were moving into the supervisory ranks.

Yes, Brown was made law in 1954. Even so, schools were still segregated. I saw that in Kentucky, Georgia, Mississippi and Kansas in the late 50's and early 60's. Let's remember that it was 1964 when George Wallace stood on stairs of the University of Alabama to block black students from attending the school..

I don't know where you lived in the 1950s, but in none of the places where I lived was wife beating legal or accepted.

Legal, no. Frowned upon, generally, yes. Accepted, sadly, yes. Even today women are afraid to admit they have been beaten. A slap or a light punch was very much tolerated back then. Full out beatings, no.

And, as someone else mentioned, it was not rape if the woman was your wife, regardless of how much your wife objected.

You properly decry the disparity in moral values between sexual promiscuity of men and women in the 1950s, but seem to feel that lowering the standard for women was the proper solution, while there are those of us who argue that raising the standard for men would have been the proper solution.

Actually, I'm with you on this one. I would much prefer that sexual standards be raised for both sexes. But, if that's not going to happen, then let's make both sexes equally responsible.

In the 1950s, I was a white, male, heterosexual teenager with a beautiful high school sweetheart who I later married, and a nice late model car to ride around in for trips to church, parties, and the beach. I did well in high school, attended church regularly, grew up in a two-parent family, with a younger brother who also did well.

I was aware of alcohol and drugs, but did not use them. I had a part time job in which I worked with a Black male who I considered a friend. I lived in a city in which White, Black, Italian and Spanish influences were all in evidence. I read a weekly newspaper that had articles written in English, Italian and Spanish. I ate "soul food," Italian food, Cuban food, and lots of sea food.

And I was happy.

Clearly, we have very different memories of the 1950s.

I was an Army/embassy brat. English was my fifth language. As a child I hated all the moving around. As an adult, I wouldn't trade my childhood for all the money in the world.

I was loved, cherished, cosseted. I saw some ugly things in my travels and had parents who didn't gloss over these events but did try to help me understand why people did the things they did.

The 50's I remember aren't the 50's I write about here. How could they be? I was ten when they ended. I had little knowledge of how women were considered chattels, how different schools in the same town meant different levels of education, etc. I was pretty happy barring all the moving. Even so, I refuse to romanticize the 50's, the 60's or any other era. Just because you weren't aware of the issues, doesn't make them any less real.

My comments in bold.