[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

On my previous post a reader asked about CARFAX, so we contacted them. We became aware that the CARFAX report on our former 2016 RAV4 said nothing about the intermittent electrical problems we had with the vehicle until we completely lost confidence in the car and took Phillips personnel at their word that they would replace the car with one that will have the same safety features as we had paid for the previous year. It was not the same as what we had. When we learned that the dealership had put this problematic vehicle into their used car division, it was then that we found out how limited the CARFAX report on that vehicle was. For those who rely on CARFAX reports, this is worth being aware of when buying a used vehicle.

We contacted CARFAX on May 9, 2018 and ‘chatted’ with Customer Service rep Karen L:

"Hi Karen. We had completely lost faith in this vehicle after a lifetime of driving Toyotas. We recognize they generally make a fine product, but this one turned out to be problematic, and it is a mechanical device that is not necessarily perfect.

"We were more than a little shocked when the dealership took our former vehicle and simply put it in their used car division. Apparently NONE of the electrical problems we were having was documented with CARFAX! This would seem to mean that a new owner will at some point have the same problem and have no idea that she/he bought the vehicle with this problem!!!

"Is it appropriate for things like this not to be reported to CARFAX? It strikes us that credibility becomes an issue after a point.... But as a matter of course, shouldn't info like this be made part of the vehicle's CARFAX report? Frankly we don't know if ANYTHING is documented in the CARFAX reports from this dealership. Is this possible?"

Response from CARFAX rep Karen L:

"CARFAX Reports are based on records reported to us by thousands of sources. However, not all sources report to us and if the source does not report to us we have no way of knowing or adding the information to the report. Typically if the dealer service shop does not report to us we have no way of getting the records. I am sorry. I understand your concern and we appreciate that you are letting us know. CARFAX database does not have the ability to add consumer provided data to the Reports. Also, to be clear about how we gather information, sources cannot make a decision to willingly omit information from a CARFAX Report [emphasis mine; yet this is exactly what Phillips Toyota service leadership acknowledged to us that they did follow through on such a decision by failing to file the report on the vehicle's intermittent electrical issues. "Basically we are interested in compiling the most complete Report possible, including maintenance history and problems because we know that keeps safer cars on the roadways.[/B]" (Evidently CARFAX is not consistent with requiring such reporting from their clients, as is shown by Phillips of Toyota.)

And in turn we responded:

"Well, we guess that's true about a used car; it just seemed to us in this instance there was a specific problem that they were not able to address, resulting in our having to give up the car. (We're two old people who aren't in a position to do 'first aid' on a car and at times find ourselves in rural places without cell service, not a good thing when the car battery dies for no reason.)

Okay, let's just let it go. Obviously the dealership knows about the intermittent electrical problem and chose not to include info about this in their report, and now we've told CARFAX about it since it's our understanding that there it NO info about it in the report."

Do you remember "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" TOTV readers cannot say that they were not made aware that the dealership evidently does not report all appropriate info to CARFAX!

[John_W]

You should go to yelp.com and put in your review. I just purchaed a car and at one time was considering the Toyota Camry SE, but after reading Phillips Toyota of Leesburg reviews, such as the ones below, I didn't go there. I had decided on the Hyundai Kona and I ended up buying from Hyundai of Central Florida in Clermont. I did check out Jenkins Hyundai simply because they were closest, but they were $3300 more for the same car and Hyundai of Central Florida had all good reviews.

Would give zero stars if able. I had comparable miserable experience with others that gave 1 star rating. I traveled 2 hours and couldn't get straight forward answers to anything. Was ready to make a deal & purchase the vehicle with my own financing and considerable $ down. They are not negotiable at all. When I requested explanation of their dealer fees, I couldn't get answers. The following is emails between myself and manager Tony Viero.

I was contacted by Olga from Phillips by email, after I requested an AARP buying certificate. Olga sent me a quote on the exact vehicle that I wanted. I went to the dealership to test drive the car and was surprised to learn that the car did not exist. There was no stock number in the email and the last 5 digits provided of the VIN number were bogus. Not only did they not have the car from the email, they did not have an car in the model I requested. The salesman, who seemed like he really just wanted to go back to his desk and his phone, immediately tried to sell me a car that I did not want. I walked out. Bait and switch is a TERRIBLE sales tactic!!

The short version of this review is that this dealer stopped at nothing to make me miserable for not choosing their financing. Our first salesman told us we were a waste of time. The second salesman was calling me while I was at my credit union, already signing papers, berating me for not financing through them, then proceeded to yell at me and argue with me for 15 minutes once I got back to the dealership with cash in hand. We were told we were "a time sink," and they tried their hardest to make us feel stupid for making smart investment choices. Dealers like this are why we have "No pressure" environment dealers.

[Nucky]

Vicar did a whole lot of good with his post. John W did a whole lot of good also. Vicar saved us from an error and John W. turned us on to a dealer that is different than others we are accustomed to. The time of life for flash is over, its time for solid reasonable transportation with a great warranty and a price that will spin your head. Don't need a car that slides a 1/4 mile on its roof for safety. We are the ones who drive slowly in the right lane, we couldn't slide that far. Thank's to both of you!

[NoMoSno]

I would guess few to no dealerships report negative info to Carfax.

[Toymeister]

I have bought over a dozen cars from the federal government. This is unique because those cars never get a title until sold to the public. Very easy carfax to spot BUT everyone came up clean. One was a ATF car and it was clean never used for law enforcement, according to carfax.

[BobnBev]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

I have bought over a dozen cars from the federal government. This is unique because those cars never get a title until sold to the public. Very easy carfax to spot BUT everyone came up clean. One was a ATF car and it was clean never used for law enforcement, according to carfax.

Same with cars from the state police. Cars assigned to Lt's and above that are unmarked, as a rule are not used in law enforcement. Major's cars can be ordered with all kinds of extras, right from the dealer.

[VICAR OF DIBLEY]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

I would guess few to no dealerships report negative info to Carfax.

I guess in my naive way I would like to hope that this isn't true....

Thank you.