Resorting to a straw man argument? Almost always a losing strategy.

Once the government, local or federal, allows an illegal person to come in and register for a license, they are condoning that person's presence here illegally (no legal action taken for violating the immigration laws of the land).....additionally allowing them a privilege heretofore reserved for US citizens and legal residents.

Once the fear of law enforcement, or the fear of being caught is removed or voided or selectively enforced there will be new problems for our society.

A grave error that threatens the safety of our country is being promoted for political gain!!

Colorado did it
 

A few years ago Colorado gave illegals drivers licenses, there was a belief that the illegal immigrants would be able to obtain insurance on their vehicles. They were supposed to be a special license but in error they sent out a regular license. If I remember correctly the program was pretty much a failure.

California is now electing an illegal to public office. Start small, drivers license, now public office. Sorry but laws have reasons.

Well sent my first email to Gov. DeSantis....

Link to this article?

Facts are nice. An illegal alien/dreamer was appointed to a California state committee, NOT running for office.

Lizbeth Mateo came to the US when she was 14 with her parents. She graduated from college and law school, now has her own law firm. She been appointed to an advisory committee for low-income students.

I’m not sure I agree with this appointment, but it sounds like she is certainly well-qualified for this appointment. It also sounds like this is a woman we would want as a U.S. citizen. Something truly needs to be done about the Dreamers. Most have more than paid their dues and deserve a legal, permanent place in America.

Actually, that's not the law. There are certain rights that are extended to all people within our borders, regardless of their immigration status. Those would be human rights, but I guess some people might think "hey they're illegals" so those rights don't apply.

In addition, undocumented immigrants have certain rights that don't apply to citizens: the right to seek asylum. Refugees have rights that citizens don't have, because those rights don't apply to people who are already citizens.

Illegal aliens are not undocumented as they almost have records of some sort where they came from: birth records, school records, many even criminal records. There is nothing "undocumented" about them. What is true is they entered our country illegally. i.e, criminally, as they broke the law. Thus these criminals are properly described and designated as illegal aliens.

100% totally in agreement with you. The process to become a LEGAL citizen can take decades. Our system is broken and has been for a very long time. There are constant complaints about the lack of qualified people in a host of categories. Obviously American citizens aren't interested in the jobs. If they were, there wouldn't be such a broad spectrum of vacancies. Dreamers WANT to fill some of these roles, they are pushing themselves to become educated, so they can contribute to the profits of the USA, become productive tax-paying members of society.

While in the meantime, we have lots of American citizens who accept handouts from the government and complain about the illegals.

I don't know what it looks like in Florida these days, but up where I live, the majority of people accepting handouts from our state and federal funds (Medicaid, Section 8 Housing, SNAP food vouchers, Welfare checks) are Americans. Most of the immigrants (I don't know their status) work in the public sector. They get paychecks and taxes are taken out and paid to the government. And the government turns around and GIVES it to Americans who don't work.

I feel you have to be pretty arrogant, and ignorant, to complain about unauthorized immigrants taking and taking from us, when the vast majority of people taking are citizens - and most of the immigrants are giving, not taking.

That is just flat out incorrect.

Most of them came here LEGALLY, with visitor visas and work visas. They came in legally, and stayed past the expiration of their visas. They are NOW "undocumented" meaning, they no longer have valid visas or any other documentation that shows they are allowed to still be here.

I would question the assertion high lighted above. There are hundreds/thousands streaming through the fields, across rivers, climbing walls, trespassing on private property to come across. None of them have any intention of doing anything legally except come across and hope to not get caught. That is what MOST of them do.

What is said and who we hear from in the news are among those as you describe. The ILLEGALS are not available for interview and would be as far as possible from the lime light.

Here is a current for instance on the volume of illegal entries:

Border at ‘Breaking Point’ as More Than 76,000 Unauthorized Migrants Cross in a Month - The New York Times

76,000 in one month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These illegal aliens cost the American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars that could be used for American citizens who actually pay the taxes.

Personal experience
 

I am an ex-New Yorker. My personal experience- In NY they will issue a picture ID. If you look at it and don't READ IT, you would mistake it for a drivers license. My car was hit. Actually very minor damage the license frame was hanging off. Did not even damage the bumper paint. We were in the middle of the street traffic was piling up. I blocked his exit and called the police. In the end. the police never came I expect he was an illegal alien. Clearly he did not have a license and without a license he could not have had insurance.

MORE IMPORTANT. My niece was rear ended by a car driven by an illegal alien with no license and no insurance. Rear ended is important because by law the person who hits you is always guilty. My nieces car rolled over onto her arm. My niece is PERMANENTLY INJURED. There was a good chance she would loose the arm in total. While she does still have the arm, it is mostly USELESS. By the time my niece got out of the hospital the father of the ILLEGAL ALIEN had bought her a new car and she was out driving.

On the issue of illegal aliens and many others we are sending out mixed CONFLICTING messages. Welfare, medical care, now drivers licenses. No wonder all INCLUDING these CRIMINALS are confused. It is like people training a pet to stay off the couch and then inviting the pet on to the couch. Simple, you can claim demeaning-NO WONDER THE ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE CONFUSED.

If it is true that illegals are paying taxes for benefits they can't use, then why don't they go back to their own country and use their skills to improve their own economy, instead of being cheated by the U.S. Government.

Your thought
 

What you are saying. A person gets a gets a liquor license-a license to sell liquor. I chose this one because it is politically correct and it is expensive. That same person allows the license to expire. Three years later they are caught. What you say is that they were once legal so there is no crime.

Law must apply to all. Today, perhaps always people THINK the only laws that need to be followed are those that they agree with. Being in the US on an EXPIRED VISA is a CRIME.

This from your link. Seems to dispute your first paragraph.

The main problem is not one of uncontrolled masses scaling the fences, but a humanitarian challenge created as thousands of migrant families surge into remote areas where the administration has so far failed to devote sufficient resources to care for them, as is required under the law.

The visa overstay issue would be so easy to solve. The employers and schools who sponsor people to get visas should put up a deposit that would be forfeited when the visa expires unless the visa holder has left the country. But, apparently, having visa holders leave is not the plan.

I rolled through a stop sign. Does that count?
:blahblahblah:

Where are your facts to back up this assertion?

Re: Licenses for illegals
 

We cannot post political stuff so this will likely be removed.

The question is obviously important. Typical required identification for many things is a drivers license. If, I recall to get a passport you need two forms of ID and one will be your drivers license-which you can get as an illegal. Hum, once you have a driver's license and a passport. It would be very unlikely you would be caught as an illegal alien. I WOULD EXPECT YOU WOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE VOTING. When we moved to Florida IF, we needed two forms of ID we had no trouble supplying that.
Now. it just keeps on renewing.

You can't get a passport without PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP. A drivers' license is not proof of citizenship.

Why do you insist on changing the goalposts?

Someone said that illegal aliens are illegal aliens because they came into this country illegally.

The above statement is factually incorrect. Any time you make an "absolute" statement, it's important to make sure you're actually correct about that statement, or someone like me will call you out on it.

SOME illegal aliens are illegal aliens because they came here illegally. However, MOST illegal aliens came here legally, and are now, currently, here illegally because they haven't renewed their visas.

There are over 12 MILLION of illegal immigrants living in the USA. Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands crossed illegally over the southern border. But MOST of them came here by car right through the gates, with permission of border patrol. Or by plane, with their passports and visitor visas. Or through our northern border, from Canada, without so much as a passport to show for it because it wasn't required when they came through.

Many of them came by boat. Take a cruise ship, come in with your passport, and just - forget to get back on the ship when it sails. Easy peasy.

And many of them were kidnapped and smuggled in, by American citizens, to be sold in an incredibly ugly sex trade.

Do you have any type of legitimate factual proof ...of this personal opinion? :oops:


Not to mention your amazing secret, regarding your dubious claim...that you can determine everyone's "intentions." :ohdear:


:popcorn:

Wrong, you take like you have experience breaking the law.

The snip is taken out of context. My remarks were intended for the hordes climbing the fence, running the fields and streams.
Just a wild a$$ guess on my part that the way they chose to cross the border, illegally, pretty much telegraphs the intention!

There still in country illegally, when caught deport. Many were law bidding visitors and when their visa’s ran out they when home. We have immigration laws, they don’t get special treatment for sneaking in Or overstaying their visa. They reapply or get in line like all the legal immigrants try to enter the country. And the ones snuck in they don’t get special treatment, they get their hearing and deported.

That sounds like a lovely fairy tale, Topspinmo. It doesn't work that way, immigration law isn't as clear cut as that, illegal entry, illegal status, refugee status, Dreamer status, and all other aspects of immigration - just don't work that way. Enforcing existing rules doesn't work that way. It might have worked that way once upon a time. But it doesn't now. You don't have to like it. I don't like it either. But I also don't pretend that it'd be easy to just follow the rules.

It doesn't even work that way for the government to ensure that LEGAL citizens aren't arrested and deported to countries they are no longer citizens of. And then there's the people who were NEVER citizens of any country other than the USA, who have been detained and/or deported.

:popcorn:

:clap2: :clap2: :agree:

The "Snip" is NOT out of context.

It IS the context, of your opinion...as stated in Post #52. :oops:

Glad to now hear you admitting it's simply your own WAG...instead of trying to pass it on as a fact. :ho:

You most certainly are entitled to your opinion....until you represent other than what was intended..... call it what ever you like....but is merely your opinion.

As for the "...trying to pass it on as fact...". Again be aware there was no intention to "pass" anything along.

I do believe this horse is now dead!!

Your entire quote in question...VERBATIM. :ho:

Please point out the part in your quote above, where you imply that you weren't really "intending" to pass off the underlined as fact & the truth...instead of just your own WAG. :popcorn:

Thank you. :ho:

I learned a long time ago when to get off the merry go round.
Pass!

I guess that's as close to an acknowledgement, that I'm correct, I'll be getting...so I'll take it. :thumbup:


http://smhttp-ssl-28253.nexcesscdn.n...y-go-round.jpg


:wave:

Let's try to keep the discussion to the issue of Illegal Aliens being able to get driver's licenses. A broader discussion of immigration policy will eventually become political and have to be closed.

Moderator