“We are all immigrants” … that’s a nice truism. That’s really inspirational. Let’s see if we can follow the logic this seems to imply:

1. We are all immigrants, therefore

2. We must welcome all immigrants, even if they break our laws to get here. No big deal.

3. In fact, we welcome anyone and everyone from around the world … that’s billions of people … ya’ll come on in! We are the most generous people on earth and have unlimited funds to help you do this … heck, money is no object.

4. In fact, why even bother to have borders or a country at some point? After all, we are guilty of land theft ourselves and therefore must absolve our sins by destroying our country.

5. And, by the way, if you illegal aliens can get here, we’ll put you up in some really nice facilities on the taxpayer dime while millions of our existing taxpaying citizens (who are suckers apparetnly) pay for it even though they need help.

6. Come to think of it, how about if we fly our commercial airliners to Honduras, interview you guys there, save you the trip and we’ll fly you to your resort suite in the US until we can legalize you. Yes, that’s another great idea.

7. By the way, all you illegal aliens … don’t forget to vote (which is really what this whole thing is all about anyway)

The level of guilt exhibited is quite amazing and insightful.

When you use the word "we" are you also saying you, your family and your kids all did it as well? ie I'm asking you to please clarify that just so it's clear.

My question was NOT answered by this post. I asked if it was better to have the women and children stay in a refurbished detention center in rooms or in cells with bars on the doors and windows. The answer was that they should stay in unairconditoned tents in Texas instead of modern facilities. Wow, real compassion in the Christian mode!

Next it was said that armed soldiers be used to turn back immigrants and possibly use military force to go into Mexico to force their government to turn back immigrants. More Christian compassion here!

I stated that probably no reader of this forum would like to stay in a refurbished detention center (that is called a resort suite in a later post) for 23 days. The reply was to fly MINORITY kids from Chicago into Texas to stay at these detention centers. What? A refurbished detention center room is now a "resort suite"? Minority kids from Chicago being transported to Texas to stay in detention centers? What is next?

The only true natives are Indians
We stole everything they had..The rest is history
WERE ALL IMMIGRANTS like it or not

Actually the Indians fought each other like crazy ... the ethic of conquest goes back for eons. The real natives were Aleuts but let's not digress.

instead of shouting, I invite you to reply to my various points about your logical chain. You are advocating open borders, but I'm not sure if you realize that or not.

We all need to realize that this country is slowly running out of resources, especially when it comes to any kind of public assistance programs-we are stretched very thin. Healthcare is becoming stretched very thin. I could go on. While I have no doubt that every single person on here would love to help, including me, everything has a limit. An example: If you have 1 meal a day , and 20 people to feed, what would you do? Feed 1 or 2 people who will probably be at least able to survive for a while, or try to share it between the 20 people, and no one would survive. We cannot afford to feed, clothe, educate, and care for the millions of children who live in the same situation the immigrants live in. I agree with whoever said that you could find children living in filth, very little food and clothes, fearing every day of their lives because of guns and drugs and killers living in their neighborhoods or even buildings. Current American children/ citizens living in EQUALLY horrific situations as those that these children came from. This has been going on for years and years in this United States. We have not been able to help these kids. If we cannot fix the horrific situations that are currently here, why would anyone suppose we are accomplishing anything by bringing any more children here. We may be changing their location, but not their problems. We are just bringing their problems here. we are only taking away resources from current American citizens. If these kids stay here, they will either be in the same or worse situations------or, they will be placed on all sorts of public assistance, and live much better than millions of current American citizens/children-not to mention better than our military families, many of whom are living below the poverty level now. As much as we all would love to be everything to everybody, and to cure all ills----we can't. We can't feed our own children, we can't pay our own debts, we are a country so divided. We have got to fix ourselves before we try to fix everyone, or we will not be helping anyone.

Since one solution is to have an immigrant be sponsored how about allowing some of the unfortunate families that want children but for whatever reason cannot have their own be allowed to sponsor a child?

For all the bleeding hearts I wonder how benevolent you'll be feeling when your social security checks go into providing for illegals?

You know I've been very curious about one thing in particular and I haven't seen it discussed anywhere. We are told that these "coyotes" charge thousands of dollars to smuggle these poor children into the US! WHERE DOES THAT KIND OF MONEY COME FROM? Wouldn't you think if the parents had that kind of money surely they could manage to migrate to safer havens to take their children to and keep their families together!

The money comes from parents and relatives ALREADY HERE, working for cash or for payroll checks with phony social security numbers and green cards they bought. Many parents sneak in to work in the USA, leaving the kids with grandma in Mexico or Guatemala, to work and send the money back there to bring them later.

Meanwhile, the parents working here illegally make sure to have a couple of automatic US citizen anchor babies born in the USA, to cement their rights to stay here together for the anchor babies' birthright to be fully used. And our veterans, active military, and elderly citizens live on peanuts.

[quote=sunnyatlast;917208]The money comes from parents and relatives ALREADY HERE, working for cash or for payroll checks with phony social security numbers and green cards they bought. Many parents sneak in to work in the USA, leaving the kids with grandma in Mexico or Guatemala, to work and send the money back there to bring them later.

Meanwhile, the parents working here illegally make sure to have a couple of automatic US citizen anchor babies born in the USA, to cement their rights to stay here together for the anchor babies' birthright to be fully used. And our veterans, active military, and elderly citizens live on peanuts.[/quote

Sad, all the way around!

We are a nation of laws
 

............................

What was your source for the "historical" information?

First of all, yes my heart bleeds.
Next, to answer your inquiry, one of the theories surrounding this influx is that the "coyotes" are accepting partial payments with the "travelers" promising to make it up. The coyotes are "employed" by the drug cartels. Well.....how do you think these children and families are going to repay the drug cartel?
Now, this is just a theory for all I know but it does make sense.

Mans inhumanity to man is so evident here. I can't even bring myself to read all the mean spirited posts. :doh:

Americans for legal immigration
 

...................

Such piety.....

BS.....I was born here and so were my parents.

Some posts here are filled with compassion others not so much. And of course factual errors. There were no quotas, none, zero zip for the wave of European immigrants in the late 1800's into the early 1920's. We did set quotas limiting Asian immigration beginning in 1875. The first limits on Europeans was enacted in 1921 as per Wikipedia

"In 1921, the Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. The 1924 Act was aimed at further restricting the Southern and Eastern Europeans, especially Jews, Italians, and Slavs, who had begun to enter the country in large numbers beginning in the 1890s. Most of the European refugees fleeing the Nazis and World War II were barred from coming to the United States"

So stop spouting lies to support your "send them back and make them wait just like my grandpappy had to" opinion. You are wrong, both factually and IMO morally. These are children escaping the worst social environments imaginable. If we have enough emergency money to send billions to the middle east we can certainly find the money and the compassion for a few tens of thousands of children.

[Good post.

Actually, your question was in fact answered quite clearly.. .you just didn’t like the content. In the meantime, you have not yet identified in any of your posts that I’ve seen a solution to stop the influx of illegal immigration.

So, to be fair, it’s my turn now. I have some questions for you.

1. I noticed you made two comments about (lack of) Christian compassion. I’m guessing you’re not a Christian yourself but rather more secular in your tastes hence your particular turn of phrase. Am I correct?

2. Why do you think it’s compassionate to put illegals in suites at $140 per day while leaving minority kids in bullet ridden neighborhoods where the governance model and family structure has clearly broken down after 50 plus years of misguided social policy … all done ironically enough in the name of compassion? That seems pretty logical as well as compassionate to me. The kids in Chicago and other urban areas live in hellholes every bit as bad as some of the places the illegal kids come from. What about homeless vets, poor people of other backgrounds etc? Why would charity not start at home?

3. More importantly, what would you actually do to STOP the flow? In other words, after you vent about compassion and let us know how much you care etc, along with some other posters, what are you going to actually do to SOLVE the problem?

4. Alternatively, do you even want to stop the influx of illegal immigrants?

Just be honest in your answers is all I’m asking, and don’t mask your intentions and preferences on this important topic.

1. No, you are wrong.

2. Ask those minority kids in Chicago if they want to go to a detention center in Texas and see what answer you get.

3. Let them come to the USA.

4. No.

Well, given what’s going on I don’t think it’s sufficient for you to simply say you don’t know what to do. You need to help figure this out, as well as all of us do, so please think about it some more and see if you can offer some solutions. I invite you to post them here.

Also, it’s very presumptuous IMHO to impugn or categorize practical solutions to stem the flow as ‘hatred.” I think that’s misinformed, and more importantly, too easy of an exit for you. We could all take the easy way out and say … oh yes, we can’t do enough for these poor kids!! Like you and others. I could say what the heck, money is no object. But guess what, this is a HUGE problem and we need to solve it. It’s not hatred to point out the obvious that this cannot go on with totally transforming this Country (which is why some are trying to do just that … but it’s a separate topic)

There are BILLIONS of poor people in the world. We can NOT take everyone on board adults, kids or whoever. That is reality so we all need to deal with it including you.

As far as tossing them back across the border as you put it, would you like for all of them to stay here? Really?? Would you like to maybe invite a few million more to come in? 20 million? 100 million? What’s your limit? Would you like to take a few onboard to live with you and your husband? How about putting some up with your kids and grandkids? Maybe convert all Villages Rec Centers into refugee centers. I’m just curious to know where your definition of compassion ends.? Please enlighten us.

But in the meantime, putting illegal aliens into "suites" while we have plenty of people here who could use the help is not very compassionate at all. Think about the guys from Wildwood or Fruitland Park that cut your yard for crying out loud. It's almost like you have a bias against American citizens who are poor but have a special soft spot if they come across the border illegally.

Some on this thread are hung up on the word " suite". The facility is a refurbished detention center. There are rooms. Do they have private showers or toilets? I doubt it. I would bet the shower room and bathroom is down the hall and serves several rooms. The average stay is supposed to be 23 days. It is for women and children. Yes, there is supposed to be a telephone and television. No big deal on that. What else are they supposed to do for 23 days?

This is not a Marriott timeshare on Palm Beach but a detention center in Texas.

Being you get to direct questions I will direct some. NO you are wrong and don't really have clue. That's the problem Load them up and take them back. THEY ARE ILLEGALLY in this COUntry AND stealing benifits from poor legal citzens that deserve it while it lasts.

No reward for illegal activities, no matter the age.

"that's what Jesus would do? " Really! GOD has nothing to do with it. If he did he would of done something already all over the world. I like how we use trigger words. Like God, undocumented, Climate change, ect. The Fact is they are illegal NOT UNDOCUMENTED and the Gov. that got voted in doing nothing but making it worse. But, that's the future Freeloader's with voting power's spending someone else's money till it runs out. IMO till this country OUT OF red like 18 trillion and climbing, No foreign aid to any country.

Amazing here illegally you get lawyer? for what it's proven fact you are breaking the law. But, lawyer's have to eat and buy basic needs like luxury cars, summer homes, condo, mistresses, and that's IMO what's it about Lawyers making the law so they get paid regardless! O I forgot the vote also.

:rant-rave::rant-rave::loco::loco::a20:

rhttp://publicreligion.org/research/2014/07/july-2014-unaccompanied-minors/


Nearly seven in ten Americans say these children should be treated as refugees, according to this poll by the public religion research institute.

Members of congress need to take a trip to Honduras, Guatemala, and I can't remember the third country, before voting again to send them back.


http://publicreligion.org/research/2...panied-minors/

We can't house our own impoverished families but we can house immigrants?

Buggy, first of all, I genuinely appreciate your honesty. Seems like most people on this board who have (what I would term) extreme Leftist positions often try to mask them or not make it too obvious lest it upset the majority who are often not paying attention. I’ll give you credit -- you have come out directly for Open Borders, loud and clear, so thanks for letting us all know where you truly stand.

I think you are wrong about the minority kids etc. Young males might balk at it I agree, but what would happen if you offered Southside Chicago Moms and their familites a chance to leave, even if only for 23 days, to live in these very nice residential facilities? These Moms worry about their children, including infants and young toddlers, and have to dodge bullets and drug dealers pretty much every day. Don’t fool yourself … a LOT of folks would jump at the chance to get out, even if only for a brief respite. I just cite Chicago as one of many examples.

But, let's get to the main topic ...

Just so people know, and for those who may not have read the earlier posts, I asked you what you would do to actually STOP the flow and you said “Let them come to the USA.” I take that to mean no limits. If that’s not true, please correct me.

When I further asked if you even want to stop the influx of illegal immigrants, you simply said “no.” I think this position is not only morally wrong, but incredibly damaging to our country. The reasons are obvious to most. Suffice it to say it boils down to a math problem. The number of impoverished people who would love to come to the USA, is INFINITE for all practical purposes. We simply cannot do it and it will not work.

If someone wants to literally destroy America over time, Open Borders is about the best way to do it short of some type of military event. Once people understand what is at stake, most will resist and fight back to prevent it. The current challenge in responding is, given that “children” are involved, many Americans are immobilized from doing anything. Then the arguments about “hate” and “lack of compassion” emerge … with none of the “compassionate” ever telling us how they would actually solve the problem of unrestricted illegal immigration.

Actually, you need to provide a full picture of what “we the taxpayers” are now providing to illegal aliens who break our laws to come here. It is much more than being “hung up” on the word “suite.”

• First of all, it is no longer referred to as a detention center but rather as a “resident center.”
• The illegal aliens, instead of being referred to as detainees, are referred to as “residents”
• Illegals will be given a free health examination upon arrival
• Illegals also get six sets of free clothing
• Doctors attention will be available at all times … free of course (which always means the taxpayer pasy)
• “Residents” will have free access to a dentist
• Other amenities include recreational fields, a library, internet access, and a cafeteria which will serve three all-you-can-eat meals a day. “Free” of course.
• Recreation activities include exercise equipment, a soccer field, basketball court, and volleyball court.
• Certified teachers will also be on site to provide year-round education .Free!
• Small jobs will also be available paying $3 a day for four hours of work.
• Free immigration attorney services … the purpose of which in all practicality is to find a way to enable the illegals to stay in the US
• Families will be able to move throughout the center freely from 6am to 10pm.
• Visitors will be allowed from 8am to 8pm.
• Cable television is available in each 8-person suite.
• A computer lab allows some internet access and email services but restricts social media.

Now, while I know you have no problem with giving illegals all this “free stuff” and in fact seemingly dismiss it as no big deal, I think most people find this to be a big deal indeed. Let’s see if I can pick the correct term .. outrageous? Idiotic? Unbelievable? Incredible? I could go on, and I’m sure others could add to my list of words.

Some people on this board also think that to say this is “mean” or “hateful”. I disagree. While they may think they are being compassionate, I say they are disconnected from reality and common sense. Sure, everyone feels sorry for the little kids but guess what, we can NOT fix the world, and the time has come to draw a line.

Do you think that when “residents” telephone home to Central America that they say “stay away, this place is horrible?” No, of course not, it’s “get on the first death train you can find … these crazy Americans are giving away all kinds of stuff away. You won’t believe it!!” I still don’t believe it. It results in even more illegals, including children, making the trek to get to the US.

How do you think the local guys who cut your grass here in The Villages, and who live on the financial edge, many of whom can’t afford a doctor, and most of whom have never even seen a dentist feel about putting illegal aliens in “suites”? These guys all WORK their butts off, and pay taxes, even if not much, but don’t get any of this “free” stuff. Is that really enlightened? What about the hundreds of homeless who live in the Ocala Forest? You get the picture. It goes way beyond the word “suite.”

Most Americans, once they really understand what is going on, will have one common reaction … fury. When they realize that many of those who support the “suites” actually support Open Borders, they will feel duped and their level of anger will justifiably increase further.

The guys who cut our grass are all citizens of the US? Do you really think that? Anyhow, if they cannot afford a doctor, that is the purpose of the Affordable Care Act. It is provided to those who cannot pay. They are eligible for food stamps and various types of social welfare - which is only right.

As for those living in the Ocala forest, most are mentally ill and do not work or want to live elsewhere. Many still receive their VA disability checks even though they are homeless.

As for the services provided to the immigrants at the detention center - it sounds perfectly right to me.

I have never called your posts mean or hateful. It is your opinion and the free exchange of opinions is what this forum is about. I respect that just as you do.

I'm not very good at math once it gets into the billions but I think 2.7 billion divided by 90,000 possible illegal immigrant children equals $30,000 per child. What about the 6,000 homeless children here in our Tri county area? What are we doing for them? Would 2.7 billion be better spent to solve problems in the Va? Where does it all stop? When do we quit printing money that we don't actually have? 90,000 illegal immigrant children this year, how many will come next year?

• First of all, it is no longer referred to as a detention center but rather as a “resident center.” Who cares
• The illegal aliens, instead of being referred to as detainees, are referred to as “residents” Don't care
• Illegals will be given a free health examination upon arrival Hope so
• Illegals also get six sets of free clothing Um...six pair of underwear and such, probably about $20
• Doctors attention will be available at all times … free of course (which always means the taxpayer pasy) 21 days of healthcare....
• “Residents” will have free access to a dentist 21 days....
• Other amenities include recreational fields, a library, internet access, and a cafeteria which will serve three all-you-can-eat meals a day. “Free” of course. Ouch... bet that is expensive....open field.... um.... wifi is actually pretty cheap
• Recreation activities include exercise equipment, a soccer field, basketball court, and volleyball court. see above
• Certified teachers will also be on site to provide year-round education .Free! Good, I'm all for employing more teachers. Maybe some of the boomerang kids here in The Villages could get a job
• Small jobs will also be available paying $3 a day for four hours of work. I would think you would like this.
• Free immigration attorney services … the purpose of which in all practicality is to find a way to enable the illegals to stay in the US Isn't that the point-legal immigration
• Families will be able to move throughout the center freely from 6am to 10pm. Crazy
• Visitors will be allowed from 8am to 8pm.
• Cable television is available in each 8-person suite. Only 8 people in a "suite"? I'm sure we could get 20 or 30 in there.
• A computer lab allows some internet access and email services but restricts social media.

I know this post will probably anger some people, but that truly is not my intent. No matter which side you are on , stop to think about some of the other potential problems with taking in as many illegal immigrants as wants to come here. Most of these kids are not infants or toddlers. They are school aged and above. I don't honestly know if they are problem makers or not, but according to a couple of articles I read, a lot of them were problem makers which is why they were sent here. No, I don't know if that is true any more than anyone knows if it isn't. But suppose it is not true---at the very least, all of these kids as well as all the others that will follow will need to be educated. Our schools are over-flowing now, and as much as the teachers may try, they can only be stretched so thin. You try to add 3,4,5,100 times as many kids and teachers will quit just like doctors and nurses did when the ACA started. You may have the most dedicated perople at their job, but there are limits to what they can stand. Not to mention that the only way many teachers now can teach is to provide so many of the needed supplies themselves out of their own money. They certainly would not be able to afford to teach with so many extra kids. Classrooms-so crowded that in some places, kids are having to sit on the floor in the classrooms now-and yes, I read that in our local paper about 4 years ago, I won't even talk about the cost, but I hope everyone saved a lot of money when they were working, or are willing to go back to work. And this is a very small part of the problems. You may as well forget about anything except the bare basics in school-no money for any arts programs, or fitness. No money for the sports programs which often help underpriviledged kids have a chance to go to college, etc, etc. I could name so much more. And that is the good part--if these are problem kids, it could happen that bullies and gangs will make it so that not only the kids will be afraid to go to school, but the teachers as well. When you take problem people and change their location, you also take the problems with them. And yes, kids can be just as mean and violent as some adults. Public schools could actually cease to be because kids and teachers might be afraid to go to school. One last thing to think about is your grandchildren, or your great grandchildren. If you let all the illegals come into this country that want to , and right now the majority of them seem to be Hispanic, (and I have nothing against Hispanics), then you can bet that your grandkids or great grand kids will be speaking Spanish. The whole concept of school as we knew it would be gone. Think your grandkids will thank you?

"Laughingstock" is a more appropriate word for everyone in America as we all sit on the sideline and watch this happen to our Country. We do absolutely nothing to hold our elected officials responsible while the rest of the world watches our sheepish response to situations like this, Bengazi, the IRS, etc. It is as though we have lost our will to even uphold common sense laws and values that WERE the foundation of his great nation. It's no wonder we now seeing Putin expanding relationships with Cuba and other central American countries. He (and the terriorist) now know that America will do absolutely nothing to defend itself or it's people from any aggressors. So we will most likely go to the poles this fall and the majority of voters will re-elect the same idiots that are there in DC today. Wake up America!!

The whole point of listing the various services “residents” who enter the country illegally but then receive at the “resident center” is that they are getting some very nice stuff for “free.” People who were born in America don’t get that. Legal immigrants don’t either, and for that matter wait in line and then pay to become citizens. These discrepancies don’t seem to bother you at all.

People who are not bothered in the least by illegal immigration make various arguments to support their position, some of which I paraphrase briefly below(I’m not saying you necessarily believe any or all of what follows btw):

-America stole the land from Mexico… it’s only right we give some of it back!

- We are all immigrants … the Indians were here first and we did a job on them … America is rotten and now it’s our turn to suffer

- It’s compassionate … these immigrants have lousy lives and we have to help. Beside, they’re “children” after all!!

- What’s the big deal with a border anyway?

You however, have made a unique argument and first I’ve ever heard it … it will help employ more teachers. (!!!) This board never ceases to amaze …

Since you’re a teacher, let me ask you some questions please.

1. Do you favor ANY limits on illegal immigration at all? If so, what?

2. Do you support Open Borders? If so, why?

The crews that cut the grass in our neighborhood are largely Anglo, along with a black crew. The Hispanics seem to work more with the landscaping. But you’re splitting hairs IHMO with the question about citizenship. My point is there is obvious poverty all around The Villages (Wildwood, Oxford etc) and I think it’s wrong to reward illegal aliens, who break the law by definition, with free stuff. It’s the principle of the thing as much as anything else. My objection is amplified when US citizens are in need, food stamps and the promise of free medical care etc notwithstanding.

On your last point, if you go back and read my post again you’ll see I did not say that you (ie Buggy) have called my posts mean or hateful etc. I appreciate that. But, others on this board have said things along those lines during this thread and that’s what I was referring to. No big deal to me, because it’s actually instructive. Some people (again, not you), when they can’t argue their position for unrestricted immigration including illegal immigration, revert to name calling, playing the “compassion” card, or the “children” card etc.

I appreciate and respect the opportunity to have an exchange of views with you and others on this board, and as you note. While I will never understand how you come to some of your views, much less agree with them (and vice versa no doubt), nonetheless these types of exchanges are what makes TOTV so valuable.
.

You however, have made a unique argument and first I’ve ever heard it … it will help employ more teachers. (!!!) This board never ceases to amaze …That was tongue in cheek.

Since you’re a teacher, let me ask you some questions please.

1. Do you favor ANY limits on illegal immigration at all? If so, what?

Absolutely I believe in limits to illegal immigration. But until you secure the border, it will not be enforced. But..... these children are here and in many cases, should be granted refugee status. I see this latest influx as a unique situation. These are not Mexican children, these children are mostly form Central and South America. If, and I say if......we can educate these children and turn them into productive, contributing members of our society, we all win. These kids WANT to be here. Look what they have gone through to get here. I'll take a highly motivated kid like that any day. As a teacher, I have had these students in my class. I had a young lady three years ago that could not speak one word of English when she walked into my class. She is now an Honors student in high school. She believes this country is an opportunity for her. Most of these kids feel that way. Why not engage that motivation?????

2. Do you support Open Borders? If so, why?[/QUOTE]

No

Ok, this is progress. At least you’re not an open borders advocate. :)

Your comment about helping highly motivated kids is appealing … no problem with that. However, do you think the one student you knew is the exception or the rule? Is she 1 out a 100, or 1 out of 10 or what? How many of the kids who are here illegally are in the lower portion of the bell and will not turn out so well … ie drugs, crime, drain on the system etc? It sounds like you have experience to talk to that so please do.

But, more importantly since this is key as you say, what do you recommend be done to secure the borders?? I totally agree with that, and I think most here do as well. Please share your thoughts on what actions you think should be taken? Much appreciated.