Sure enough BUT......all passengers must wear masks, even in between bites of food and sips of a drink. I do not want to have to do that on a cruise ship. It is as simple as that.

There should be no reason to have a loophole. There should have been an exception for cruise lines from the get go. DeSantis blew it and he is paying the price now. If he loses all this revenue from the cruise lines for Florida, he will not be very popular with many people. That is a lot of jobs and a $9 Billion of lost revenue for Florida. Not a very good look, Governor.

Do you trust those two vaccine shots that you took (and insist on advertising) or not? If you do then what risk does an unvaccinated person pose to you?

The last numbers I saw implied that the chance of a vaccinated person contracting covid was about 0.008% (1 out of 13,000). Remember, these were early numbers collected when less than 1/3 of the country had been vaccinated and new infections among unvaccinated people were still very high.

If a cruise ship is bursting at the seams it will still have fewer than 6,000 passengers. At one infection for 13,000 vaccinated people, this means fewer than one-half of a person would be infected. But most cruise passengers would be vaccinated - even a random sample of Americans would have over 60% vaccination rate - and this would lower the chances of encountering an unvaccinated person even more. So less than one-half of one person on a cruise might be expected to contract covid.

So do you trust the vaccine that you took to protect you or don't you? If you do trust it then the unvaccinated passengers pose no risk to you. Take the precautions (your two vaccine shots) to protect yourself then stay out of everyone else's business.

Curiosity. "I'm protected from Covid due to the two vaccine shots that I took but I still want to know whether *you* have been vaccinated because ____" You don't need to know in order to be protected, you need to know because of some other personal reason. I used "curiosity" for a catch-all.

As safe an environment as possible. Be very careful what you wish for. There may be many other things that have better than a 1 in 13,000 chance of affecting you that you wouldn't want to do without. I imagine lowering the speed limit to 50mph and strictly enforcing it would save many lives if we wanted to have as safe an environment as possible. Strictly limiting alcohol on your cruise would help make a safer environment. Avoiding ports in countries with civil unrest or which are known for crime or which have less than first-rate medical facilities would lead to a safer environment.

95% for passengers and 98% for staff. Is there any science behind these numbers or were they chosen because they feel good? If 80% - 90% is a good guess to reach herd immunity then why is 95% the minimum for a safe cruise?

Heck, your grocery store and restaurant don't have a 95% vaccination requirement, do you avoid them because they are not safe enough? There is no study that shows Covid transmission only occurs on cruise ships or on the 2nd day of sailing. There are no cruises today so any new infections (20,000 per day recently?) are occurring at places that you might regularly visit. Are you masking up or requiring proof of vaccinations or are you confident that you are protected by the two vaccine shots you took?

Bottom line is this: I believe the numbers coming out of the vaccine trials and I trust the numbers coming out of the real-world observations. Those who have been vaccinated are protected from the unclean around them. Over 60% of Americans have been vaccinated with that number growing every day so the chance of a vaccinated person meeting one of the unclean is small and decreasing every day. The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others.

At some point, the requirement of masks for air travel will be lifted & cruise lines will be open to everyone. Most stores have already rescinded their mask requirements. The idea that people who opted not to get vaccinated will be punished, will just slowly fade away...

So is it the captain's decision or is it the federal government's decision? The two seem contradictory.

I agree and we're prety "serious cruisers"....probably 40+ times

"The vaccinated should feel good about themselves and go on with life and stop trying to force their will on others."

conversely, the unvaccinated people should accept the consequences of their decision and do the things that don't require a vaccination.

cruise ships were petrie dishes before Covid, so everything should be done for the safety of those who cruise. every unvaccinated person is a possible host for a resistant variant.

when covid hit, it was Asia and Europe most affected. you just happened to be in parts of the world where it hadn't hit yet.

You make a good point about cruise ships being prone to illnesses even before Covid-19. Legionnaire's disease was one. I can see why they would want to limit the possibility of Covid spreading to even a few passengers and then be stranded offshore.


DeSantis shot himself in the foot trying to enforce that ban on the cruise ships. They called his bluff and simply said We'll go elsewhere. That would have been a large economical blow to Florida.

I most certainly trust the Moderna vaccine I received and, I might add, extremely proud to claim that I have been vaccinated. Wanting to cruise on a ship with 100% vccinated people on board has nothing to do with feeling unsafe. It has everything to do with what the protocols may be if there were an outbreak on a ship that has un-vaccinated people on it.

I trust there will no such problem with an outbreak large enough to negatively impact a cruise on a completely vaccinated ship. Allow un-vaccinated people on board and that is asking for trouble. Trouble I want no part of. Missing ports, having to quarantine, closing down venues on board the ship, and worst of all, turning the ship around and cutting short the cruise. These are very real possibilities and the reasons I do not want to cruise with un-vaccinated people, not that my safety is compromised.

I want nothing more than for this to occur, believe me. I trust that all these damn restrictions and protocols will be a thing of the past but only when we reach a herd immunity that will protect everyone.....vaccinated and those who have chosen not to be vaccinated. I do trust that day will come. When is a crap shoot. I have confidence, however, It will occur sooner if more people get themselves vaccinated.

I wish I could like this post 1000 times. Thank you!

I just read that the CDC has approved sailing from US ports beginning in June. For vaccinated travelers no masks and the freedom to choose your own shore excursions. These were 2 concerns I had before I started cruising again.

I hope to be able to cruise from a Florida port and can not understand why DeSantis can't just say that after reconsideration he realizes it would be economically advantageous to go along with the CDC and open Florida ports. There is nothing wrong with saying you were wrong. Hindsight is 20/20 vision. It makes you human and willing to compromise.

That's exactly what I said a couple of pages back. What desantis did, is no different from if he told people at BlueFin that they are not ALLOWED to make their employees wash their hands, and are not ALLOWED to make sure that any pesticides or bait traps are kept away from the food.

The content is different, but the intention is the same. desantis is telling a company that they are not allowed to do whatever they think is necessary to provide a safe experience for their customers. Whether you (the generic you, not you personally) agree that it's safe or not, is not the point. The point is it's not your place to decide what someone else feels is safe for THEIR customers. Just like desantis can't tell your neighbor that he's not allowed to ask to see your vaccine card if you want to come over his house - he can't tell the cruise line that they're not allowed to see your vaccine card if you want to board their ship.

Cruise ships are not open to the public. You have to pay to board. You have to have their permission, and you have to comply with all kinds of rules and regulations in order to enjoy the privilege - not the right - to sail as a passenger on one of their ships. This is another regulation, and they have the right to make it. You have the right to not sail. The governor has the right to whine.

Amen!!! :MOJE_whot:

And I don't think it ever would have stood up in court, but their saying Okay, we'll go elsewhere did the trick with no lawyers involved.

The governor is is in a corner (of his choosing).

Now we wait for the exit strategy (or BS!).

Oops....delete the dupe!

That mask between bites thing is rarely enforced on planes from what I've heard.

Airlines are going to wind up dropping the mask requirement altogether. And I do not see the airlines requiring passengers to be vaccinated.

People have had plenty of time to get the shot if that is what they wanted to do. Those that have gotten the shot are not at risk from Covid anymore, people who had the virus now have natural immunity so it really is time to move beyond all of the unnecessary precautions.

RCCL:

"Royal Caribbean International will no longer require any of its cruise passengers to be vaccinated for COVID-19 as it had previously planned to."

In a press release Friday announcing cruises for sale on eight of its ships from U.S. ports this summer, starting with Freedom of the Seas from PortMiami on July 2, the company said it will recommend passengers get the COVID-19 vaccine, but not require it. The announcement is a reversal from previous statements andvaccine protocols the company submitted to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month that said it would require all passengers at least 18 years old and older to be vaccinated.

“Guests are strongly recommended to set sail fully vaccinated, if they are eligible,” the company said in a statement. “Those who are unvaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be required to undergo testing and follow other protocols, which will be announced at a later date.”

There seems to a tremendous amount of rage about our Governor's policy to prevent restricting the rights of citizens who choose not to take an experimental vaccine.

Just curious if those concerned are also infuriated that our nation was lied to by NIH about the true origin of the most deadly virus of our lifetime. And also tried to cover up that the NIH provided funds to the notorious lab and went along with the farce of a WHO investigation. And never held the Chinese Communists accountable for prohibiting domestic travel while encouraging its citizens to travel to earth's farthest reaches resulting in millions of deaths and a global economic disaster.

Dr. Anthony Fauci: Evidence says coronavirus '''could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated''' in lab - ABC7 San Francisco

Dr. Fauci discuses potential origins of COVID-19 | 9news.com
Dr. Fauci 'not convinced' coronavirus developed naturally

The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins | Vanity Fair

The testing is reasonable but the "other protocols" sounds dubious.

No one is enraged about the governor not restricting the rights of people to choose not to vaccinate.

What people are angry about is the governor telling a private place of business that they aren't allowed to set their own safety policies for their own paying customers.

People don't have the "right" to go on a cruise ship. You don't have that right. You just don't. If a cruise line wants to ALLOW you to board its ship, it has the RIGHT to set restrictions if it wants to. As long as those restrictions don't violate your CIVIL rights, then they can make those restrictions.

They can't refuse to sell you a ticket because you're black, or white, or disabled, or a woman, or a man, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian, or Pagan. But they CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate. Being vaccinated is not listed as a protected class.

The governor doesn't care. That's what people are angry about.

RCCL is doing the right thing here. I am vaccinated and would declare so. Although I have some doubts on testing accuracy. What tests will they be using?

At this point in time I am not going to travel on a ship if proof of vax is not required.

I am vax'd and I am not worried about getting sick. I am worried that if a bunch of un-vax'd people are on the ship they might get sick, overwhelm the medical facilities, and cause the captain to decide to return to home port. I don't want to end up with another credit from the cruise line. I want to take a relaxing, stress-free vacation so I am currently researching options with cruise lines that require vaccination.

I am in agreement with the gov. on most things but not this.

kathy

Could, that's for sure, I totally agree, but... then I also think, could happen in any hotel (Legionnaire's years ago killed many), could happen at any resort, could happen on any flight, could happen at any restaurant, could...... guess life's just a risky business hu / enjoy while we can. Love all kinds of travel but sure miss the kind of peace and relaxation of a long ocean voyage... don't crave the roller coasters and bumper cars.... LOL... but something so refreshing and relaxing about being out to sea we think... Go to school at Fayetteville campus ? Have son in law school there now ! Go Razorbacks :coolsmiley:

Interesting you quote Fauci when it has been revealed that he was culpable in the funding of the Wuhan Lab studies into gain of function of the bat virii. Fauci has lied to Congress and must be prosecuted for that.

Here’s What We Know About the Fauci COVID Emails | Snopes.com

and before you dismiss snopes as "fake news" remember they just debunked the rumor that a certain former president's pants were on backward during that person's recent rally in a nearby state. Snopes said that rumor was false, that the guy's pants were not on backward afterall, it was photoshopped and a doctored video.

Either they're fake news and that guy's pants WERE on backward, or they're not fake news and there was no "gain of function." (and do you even know what that means, without doing a google search first? I didn't. I had to look it up.)

Good luck to all those who choose to sail on a ship with an unlimited amount of un-vaccinated people. I won't be one of them. I'm not about to mask up and be mandated to distance from others and deal with limited capacities due to having un-vaccinated people on board a cruise ship. That is not the cruise vacation experience I'm willing to pay for.

I sincerely hope un-vaxxed ships can remain safe and healthy as I do not want to see the cruise industry suffer the repercussions if a ship comes limping in to home port with a Covid outbreak on board.

Very bad move on Royal's part, IMHO. I won't be on any of those ships having to mask up and follow the safety protocols just to have an unlimited amount of un-vaxxed people on board. I surely hope those unvaxxed ships remain safe and healthy as I do not want to see the cruise industry negatively impacted.

I will not travel for a vacation on an airplane while masking is still mandated. But, that is just me. I'll wait until that mandate is dropped.

This post is hereby LIKED a thousand times. Thank you, OBB.

NCL and Celebrity are offering fully vaxxed cruises. I'm staying far far away from Royal at this time. Maybe in the future we will venture on a Royal ship but certainly not now.

Another way of looking at it is the governor *does* care and is attempting to prevent discrimination and segregation based on vaccination status.

They CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate because it currently is not illegal to discriminate in that way. They CAN set up vaccinated-only sections of stadiums because it is currently not illegal to segregate in that way. Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't make it right. The governor is saying that it is wrong and shouldn't be done.

You do understand that the cruise lines are only implementing the mask and vaccine mandates because they are trying to appease government officials in order to stay in business.

The cruise lines aren't happy about restricting their passengers, they are only doing it to protect themselves from unnecessary governmental overreach - long quarantines, being turned away from ports, etc.

It's like putting a gun to someone's head and then marveling how they are so willing to do everything that you say even if it is to their own detriment. DeSantis is not having it and he is standing up for the cruise industry.

The governor doesn't have the legal right or authority to mandate it. That is why he's being sued by NCL, it's why this is even an issue at all, it's why people are complaining about it. He cannot just say "this is discrimination and so it's illegal." Discrimination has an actual legal definition, it's outlined in the Civil Rights act, and "vaccinations" is not a protected class.

Now, if he wants, he can lobby Congress and/or the House and/or the President of the united states to make a change and add "vaccine status" to the list of protected classes. But he hasn't done that. And so he has no ground to stand on.

It doesn't matter why they're doing it. What matters is they have the right to do it, and DeSantis does not have the authority to forbid it.

Sure he does. It is well within his powers. RCCL agrees. Watch for more cruise lines following suit.

Discrimination is discrimination, there is no "protected class" in the definition.

The Civil Rights Act created some protected classes and made discrimination against those protected classes illegal.

The State of Florida and the Governor of Florida has the right to make laws for Florida so long as they don't conflict with Federal laws (and in some cases, even if they do). If the State of Florida or the Governor wants to make a law that goes farther than the Federal Govt and says you can't discriminate against unvaccinated individuals either, they can do that. The States don't have to go to the Federal Government and say "mother may I."

Now, if the Federal Govt. or a business believes the State has overreached and created a law that is inconsistent with Federal law then the Federal Govt or the business can sue. That is why we have a Judiciary branch of Govt.

I certainly did know what it meant and I didn't need google to help me. And pants have nothing to do with Fauci's complicity.