[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

That mask between bites thing is rarely enforced on planes from what I've heard.

Airlines are going to wind up dropping the mask requirement altogether. And I do not see the airlines requiring passengers to be vaccinated.

People have had plenty of time to get the shot if that is what they wanted to do. Those that have gotten the shot are not at risk from Covid anymore, people who had the virus now have natural immunity so it really is time to move beyond all of the unnecessary precautions.

I will not travel for a vacation on an airplane while masking is still mandated. But, that is just me. I'll wait until that mandate is dropped.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No one is enraged about the governor not restricting the rights of people to choose not to vaccinate.

What people are angry about is the governor telling a private place of business that they aren't allowed to set their own safety policies for their own paying customers.

People don't have the "right" to go on a cruise ship. You don't have that right. You just don't. If a cruise line wants to ALLOW you to board its ship, it has the RIGHT to set restrictions if it wants to. As long as those restrictions don't violate your CIVIL rights, then they can make those restrictions.

They can't refuse to sell you a ticket because you're black, or white, or disabled, or a woman, or a man, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian, or Pagan. But they CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate. Being vaccinated is not listed as a protected class.

The governor doesn't care. That's what people are angry about.

This post is hereby LIKED a thousand times. Thank you, OBB.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by kathyspear

At this point in time I am not going to travel on a ship if proof of vax is not required.

I am vax'd and I am not worried about getting sick. I am worried that if a bunch of un-vax'd people are on the ship they might get sick, overwhelm the medical facilities, and cause the captain to decide to return to home port. I don't want to end up with another credit from the cruise line. I want to take a relaxing, stress-free vacation so I am currently researching options with cruise lines that require vaccination.

I am in agreement with the gov. on most things but not this.

kathy

NCL and Celebrity are offering fully vaxxed cruises. I'm staying far far away from Royal at this time. Maybe in the future we will venture on a Royal ship but certainly not now.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No one is enraged about the governor not restricting the rights of people to choose not to vaccinate.

What people are angry about is the governor telling a private place of business that they aren't allowed to set their own safety policies for their own paying customers.

People don't have the "right" to go on a cruise ship. You don't have that right. You just don't. If a cruise line wants to ALLOW you to board its ship, it has the RIGHT to set restrictions if it wants to. As long as those restrictions don't violate your CIVIL rights, then they can make those restrictions.

They can't refuse to sell you a ticket because you're black, or white, or disabled, or a woman, or a man, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian, or Pagan. But they CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate. Being vaccinated is not listed as a protected class.

The governor doesn't care. That's what people are angry about.

Another way of looking at it is the governor *does* care and is attempting to prevent discrimination and segregation based on vaccination status.

They CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate because it currently is not illegal to discriminate in that way. They CAN set up vaccinated-only sections of stadiums because it is currently not illegal to segregate in that way. Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't make it right. The governor is saying that it is wrong and shouldn't be done.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No one is enraged about the governor not restricting the rights of people to choose not to vaccinate.

What people are angry about is the governor telling a private place of business that they aren't allowed to set their own safety policies for their own paying customers.

People don't have the "right" to go on a cruise ship. You don't have that right. You just don't. If a cruise line wants to ALLOW you to board its ship, it has the RIGHT to set restrictions if it wants to. As long as those restrictions don't violate your CIVIL rights, then they can make those restrictions.

They can't refuse to sell you a ticket because you're black, or white, or disabled, or a woman, or a man, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian, or Pagan. But they CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate. Being vaccinated is not listed as a protected class.

The governor doesn't care. That's what people are angry about.

You do understand that the cruise lines are only implementing the mask and vaccine mandates because they are trying to appease government officials in order to stay in business.

The cruise lines aren't happy about restricting their passengers, they are only doing it to protect themselves from unnecessary governmental overreach - long quarantines, being turned away from ports, etc.

It's like putting a gun to someone's head and then marveling how they are so willing to do everything that you say even if it is to their own detriment. DeSantis is not having it and he is standing up for the cruise industry.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Another way of looking at it is the governor *does* care and is attempting to prevent discrimination and segregation based on vaccination status.

They CAN refuse to sell you a ticket if you refuse to vaccinate because it currently is not illegal to discriminate in that way. They CAN set up vaccinated-only sections of stadiums because it is currently not illegal to segregate in that way. Just because something CAN be done doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't make it right. The governor is saying that it is wrong and shouldn't be done.

The governor doesn't have the legal right or authority to mandate it. That is why he's being sued by NCL, it's why this is even an issue at all, it's why people are complaining about it. He cannot just say "this is discrimination and so it's illegal." Discrimination has an actual legal definition, it's outlined in the Civil Rights act, and "vaccinations" is not a protected class.

Now, if he wants, he can lobby Congress and/or the House and/or the President of the united states to make a change and add "vaccine status" to the list of protected classes. But he hasn't done that. And so he has no ground to stand on.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

You do understand that the cruise lines are only implementing the mask and vaccine mandates because they are trying to appease government officials in order to stay in business.

The cruise lines aren't happy about restricting their passengers, they are only doing it to protect themselves from unnecessary governmental overreach - long quarantines, being turned away from ports, etc.

It's like putting a gun to someone's head and then marveling how they are so willing to do everything that you say even if it is to their own detriment. DeSantis is not having it and he is standing up for the cruise industry.

It doesn't matter why they're doing it. What matters is they have the right to do it, and DeSantis does not have the authority to forbid it.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It doesn't matter why they're doing it. What matters is they have the right to do it, and DeSantis does not have the authority to forbid it.

Sure he does. It is well within his powers. RCCL agrees. Watch for more cruise lines following suit.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The governor doesn't have the legal right or authority to mandate it. That is why he's being sued by NCL, it's why this is even an issue at all, it's why people are complaining about it. He cannot just say "this is discrimination and so it's illegal." Discrimination has an actual legal definition, it's outlined in the Civil Rights act, and "vaccinations" is not a protected class.

Now, if he wants, he can lobby Congress and/or the House and/or the President of the united states to make a change and add "vaccine status" to the list of protected classes. But he hasn't done that. And so he has no ground to stand on.

Discrimination is discrimination, there is no "protected class" in the definition.

The Civil Rights Act created some protected classes and made discrimination against those protected classes illegal.

The State of Florida and the Governor of Florida has the right to make laws for Florida so long as they don't conflict with Federal laws (and in some cases, even if they do). If the State of Florida or the Governor wants to make a law that goes farther than the Federal Govt and says you can't discriminate against unvaccinated individuals either, they can do that. The States don't have to go to the Federal Government and say "mother may I."

Now, if the Federal Govt. or a business believes the State has overreached and created a law that is inconsistent with Federal law then the Federal Govt or the business can sue. That is why we have a Judiciary branch of Govt.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Here’s What We Know About the Fauci COVID Emails | Snopes.com

and before you dismiss snopes as "fake news" remember they just debunked the rumor that a certain former president's pants were on backward during that person's recent rally in a nearby state. Snopes said that rumor was false, that the guy's pants were not on backward afterall, it was photoshopped and a doctored video.

Either they're fake news and that guy's pants WERE on backward, or they're not fake news and there was no "gain of function." (and do you even know what that means, without doing a google search first? I didn't. I had to look it up.)

I certainly did know what it meant and I didn't need google to help me. And pants have nothing to do with Fauci's complicity.

[kathyspear]

Christine Duffy (Pres. of Carnival Cruises) gave an interview the other day and indicated that they might be requiring vax after all. They are finding that they won't be able to offer their passengers the experience they desire if they have to follow CDC rules for ships with un-vax'd folks. Sounds good to me. They have an 8-night Southern Carib itinerary scheduled for the second half of September visiting the ABC Islands. I'd love to be on that ship!

k.