Bullying...
 

Bullying is going to happen regardless of whether they are members of club or not. Do you not think that the band students are excluded from bulllying because the "club" status protects them? How about members of the chess club? Who's to say the gay students aren't bullying others?

I will say it. My friend's daughter went to that school. In 8th grade she was persuaded by a group of lesbian students to date another girl. My friend's daughter wasn't poplular, wasn't involved in any clubs, she was just an average student. When her mother found out she told her mom she really didn't want to date the other girl, but people thought she was "cool" for doing it and it made her feel "popular" for once in her life. Her daughter has since graduated high school, and she'll be the first to tell you that was the worst experience in her whole life and she regrets it 100%. She says she never had feelings for that girl, but she was too "weak" to say no. So tell me, will this "alliance" be there to promote and persuade? How may students will join this alliance thinking it will prevent them from being bullied?

Regarding bullying....Give the power back to the schools to discipline the students. This has been the biggest issue I have seen while raising two children in the Lake County School System.

I have been reading this thread because I really had no opinion on it.

I have always believed and still do that our sexual orientation was not a choice but rather a genetic situation at birth.

Everyone's contribution has added a lot to my thinking about whether a gay-straight club in a middle school would be good or bad for a person of that age.

Yesterday I was with friends, one who taught this age group for a long time and she presented her views to me and I could see this issue much clearer.

We do change each other's views on here.

I hope mine now is logical, caring, good for children and the world.

You all get an A for presenting your views so sincerely and mostly without malice.

I love Seniors.

Christian Based?
 

Maybe this is the problem. I find any time any religion enters into these roles, the intolerance increases. It's the "My God is Better Than Your God" syndrome. There is way too much involvement in public schools by religions. I also believe that innocence recognizes things as they are, not as we say they are. Kids see through a lot of the things happening in society today. They know bullying and intolerance exist and try to overcome them as best they can, and they deserve our support, not condemnation. I also believe intolerance and bullying are not natural traits, they are TAUGHT, and probably by members of our generation.

I respectfully disagree with this. Bullying comes naturally to some, depending on their personality type. I believe it is our generation, and the ones before us, who tolerated this bullying as "a right of passage," and did not TEACH the bullying types that this type of behavior is wrong.

And the schools are complicit in this ignorance. (And I mean "ignorance" in the sense of ignoring a big problem.) It's long been time for a change from the top down.

Thank You for private schools.Seems all of these problems stem from public schools.

Informative article in Miami Herald on Charter Schools.
Financial problems close three charter schools in Broward - Schools - MiamiHerald.com

"Nationally, about 12 percent of charter schools opened in the last 20 years have closed, but in Florida, that closure rate is double, according to state figures. Florida’s XXXXXXXXXX-controlled Legislature has strongly encouraged charter school growth — even allocating school construction dollars exclusively to charters. But critics of charter schools complain the state isn’t doing enough oversight"

I was there when the first Charter Schools were started. I said then this is a very very bad idea.It is no surprse to me.

Surprise

Private/Charter Schools
 

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

Bullying can go on everywhere, but the most important part of the bullying equation is not the bully or the victim. It is teaching the "bystanders" what to do. If a 5 or 6 of them call the bully out and calmly, without threatening, tell the bully that what he/she is doing is wrong, makes them look foolish, or humorously sort of gently laugh the bully out of the room, it can be very powerful. Sometimes these clubs can be advocates for any student who needs help in handling difficult situations, and teaches tolerance for all differences.
A LGBT club is not involved with promoting their situations, but rather it helps to teach them how to function in a world where they are in the minority. It is a club open to anyone, and sometimes who are not LGBT will join and become an advocate for students wh need help.
There is also a MS/HS organization call Natural Helpers that many schools have and this type of club can be a great benefit to students.
To say only curriculum clubs should be allowed doesn't recognize that we need to educate the whole child, and that includes the emotional, social, intellectual, and physical. All those areas are necessary to function in our society as young adults.

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

I see it totally opposite. I grew up being taught to love thy neighbor and do unto others regardless of their race, sexual orientation/ gender etc. I was never under the belief that everything is a conspiracy and only meant to harm me. After 65 years I now believe that is definitely TRUE. I am so thankful I see the glass half full rather than half empty.

:MOJE_whot:

Not sure if I agree with that first sentence.

:bigbow:

Thank you! I've been waiting all-thread long for someone to say this! Seems to me that many schools have their plates full just trying to teach the three R's today! And there is so much more to teach today! My granddaughter is in Kindergarten. Her classroom is all about computers and technology and learning. (She happens to be reading on a 3rd grade level!)

I believe that schools should be allowed to discipline students but the issue of bullying is a parenting problem!

Hold these "support" groups off campus!

[QUOTE=ilovetv;628349]When I read the first article linked (Daily Commercial), I couldn't help but think there was more to the story. Something is missing from what's being reported. I looked around and googled other articles on the topic. One sentence here, from this article, has a key point:



I think "curriculum-based" is at the heart of the matter. To stereotype the entire school board, administration and district parents as a bunch of redneck haters, homophobes, and bigots, just because the school administration cannot be all things to all people....is stereotyping and bigotry too.

One problem is that when a club forms at school, there has to be a faculty advisor(s) for the club. The school district also assumes liability for all its clubs, students, and faculty while they're there and involved in school activities.

So. Let's say that a good and willing faculty advisor for the gay-straight alliance club would be a teacher who is gay or lesbian, because they have walked in the shoes of these students. Now consider that for decades, as an example, the U.S. military had a policy of "Don't ask, don't tell", that worked reasonably well. A lot of us don't really care to know what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. Changing this policy in the military became congressional-level demonstrations, protests, lobbying, etc. for years.

Why should the public schools get involved in such an emotional, controversial, extra-curricular club, when really, I believe this problem is due to the schools having their hands tied in recent decades when it comes to seriously and effectively disciplining bullies that are so evil they'd slash a girl's face!!!!

When school behavior gets so far out of control that you have students openly, physically abused for being different, this tells me that either the principal and assistants are absolutely useless, and/or their hands are tied legally against their being able to strongly discipline and boot out these awful perpetrators who are also enabled by their boorish parents. I have taught under school principals that are absolutely useless and just play the P.R. game, and I've also seen some of the best principals you could ever find have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to disciplining abusive students.

Also....I'm pretty sure there are lots of teachers who are homosexual, and I'm certain that my kids have had gay teachers.......but why does anybody in a public school need to KNOW that???? Quite a few times, while my kids were in high school and after I'd met their teachers and got to know them better in parent-teacher conferences, I'd ask my kids, "Is Mr. or Ms. So and So gay? I sense that they are because of this or that." Routinely their answer was, "I dunno.....who cares?" And I was glad they didn't care about that because that person is there to be a teacher, not a sexual-identity role model, nor a counseling psychologist which, by the way requires masters' and PhD degrees, clinical hours, licensure and continuing education!!!!

I think the real problem this school board is trying to deal with is a) not having the legal authority nor standing to strongly, finally discipline and nip in the bud these bullies and get them out if they don't shape up; and b) the board and administrators know their limitations and that they cannot be all things to all people.

I think a club like this belongs in the private sector of the community, in for example a community center like Boys & Girls Club or church youth groups, etc. if it's in line with their beliefs and they are prone to address that problem.

Besides that, any parent of one of the abused students can form a club for the victims and friends to meet at their house or wherever. I think the schools already have enough problems of their own without getting into this.[/QUOTe

The suggestion that bullies can be "gotten out if they don't shape up" is very misleading. Our laws guarantee an education, even mandate an education, and until laws are broken, the bully will be in school There may be suspensions, etc., but you cannot expel a student for being a bully.

It is also not realistic to say that all parents must provide sex education for their children. Some parents are absent, have left their families, are drug addicts, pedophiles, in prison, or are crackheads.

I know for a FACT of two private schools located in Lake County, both are based out of churches, that have students enrolled in classes that have been "removed" from Lake County Schools due to severe behavioral problems. The almightly dollar can buy a misbehaving child a spot anywhere.

I also know a woman who works in a Christian preschool in Lake County. She has a student that has bitten her on the arms and hit her so hard it has bruised her. The student still remains in her class because the parents "are large contributors" to the church. Other students in that same preschool have been asked to leave for far less offenses.

This is what I call monetary bullying....the parent with the most money wins.

And I agree with someone's statement earlier that it begins at home...parents don't raise their children with any morals or values anymore. They just ship them off to school and expect others to do it for them.

I 100% agree. Just what is it that is in the teacher's training that qulifies them to teach children in their care about sex??? Absolutely nothing other than their own particular leaning which is totally and completely unacceptable. They, the teachers, are challenged enough as it is to teach the basic curriculum.

Sex education belongs at home....like it or not. School administrators at any level....ANY LEVEL.....are not qulified. And now the outlook of the 21st century that it is OK for anything goes has more than complicated the birds and the bees concept....eh??!!??

If I had a kid in school they would be opted out of sex education....thank GOD I am way past having kids in school anymore. Today's attitudes would not want me in their PTA meetings!!!!!

btk

yes of course, I retired from a private school. We would many many times take students expelled from public schools. We would have better discipline of that student from a public school.More of a family atmosphere in a private school. Remember one student expelled from inner-city school for carrying a gun. We took him in our small inner-city private and he did excellent. Something about those IHM nuns that will do it to you.

I agree with you.

When I had children in school, I opted out of sex ed for both of my children. I felt this was a subject I wanted to discuss with my children, not a teacher in a classroom with a whole class waiting to hear what questions someone might ask. I also did not agree that in elementary school they were wanting to discuss "self gratification" with children. The belief behind this was that if children could "learn" how to do this, they wouldn't try to have intercourse. Really???? I often wondered just how much detail they went into regarding this.

What I did find interesting was the note they sent home was to be signed ONLY if you did NOT want your child to participate. To me, this is backwards. What if the note never made it home? Did the school just assume that your child has permission?

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

Boy Howdy and oh my.

Lots needed Bill.

Then join in.

Amen and Amen! Thank you for those articulate responses. :bigbow:

I SO disagree with this. Most parents don't even know their kids are bullying, because it's taking place in school, or after school on the bus, or out of their viewing in the neighborhood playground. You can think you're doing the most wonderful job of raising your kids, but you absolutely don't know everything they're doing. I repeat my earlier statement: bullies evolve from a certain personality type. If you're not following your child around day, you may not know he or she is bullying. If the school doesn't step up to stop this problem, it's going to continue.

I have had personal experience with this when our younger son was new to his school way back when (fourth grade). The school refused to help. The parents of the bullier were the nicest people but had their heads in the sand toward this problem with their child. We had to take our own steps to avoid this kid and protect our child physically and emotionally.

This is a school matter and needs to be addressed by the school. Parents of bullyers will not step up unless the school steps in.

I agree...and I am in shock at all of the naïveté shown on some of these posts. Did not most of our children grow up in the 80's and 90's.....and were we not children of the 60's and 70's???? Does no one else remember the reality of all of this?????

I remember my childhood and teen years....and I know the stories my children now tell of theirs...something's I already knew....something's I did not want to know....regardless....nothing shocks me anymore. However I still want my grandchildren to know the real life.

I want them to know the bullies are wrong and that we should defend those that are being mistreated. I want them to LOVE all people no matter who they are....no matter what they look like or what religion they practice or who they are married to or what color they are!!!!

I want them to live a life of honor and love and acceptance.....but I want them to be knowledgeable about life and I want them to know what reality...how is it that no one else remembers that last 50 years???
:shocked:

From what I have seen, a pro-active, smart, capable school principal and assistants can stop bullies in their tracks and put them out of business fast....if they want to and don't bury their heads in the sand.

And strong disciplinarian principals and assistants also MUST back up the classroom teacher in stopping the bully in the classroom and playground, and the principals must actively respond to reports of bullies on the bus, too.

These are all situations in which the parents of the victim cannot do much for their child and they HAVE to rely on the principals and assistants for such help. The administrators need to have the authority restored to them to take strong disciplinary measures against bullying.

I think that strong administrators can do a whole lot more to nip bullying in the bud than kids empathizing with each other and learning tactics for standing up to the bullies, in a club. That's not to say they should have the empathy nor learn to defend themselves, but to say that the adults in charge of the school are both responsible for stopping it and are in a much better position to deal with the bully than parents and victims are.

I saw an article on this Gay Alliance Club in the Orlando Sentinel today. The girl who wants to start it was pictured with her mother and some other supporters. The girl was identified by picture and name - and the article said she is a 14 year old bisexual.

I know I am not alone when I say it is way too young for a 14 year old girl to be identified as a bisexual. I am assuming that the 14 year old girl has had sexual partners of both male and female so as to know she considers herself to be bisexual. They should not even know if they are at that young an age. Even in Florida, a 14 year old cannot give consent for sex. I know I will receive postings about this saying I do not know what I am talking about.

What is the girl's mother doing supporting her daughter's sexual activity at age 14? Ridiculous! :ohdear:

I also will get postings about what I am now going to say. I believe that a person's sexuality is a result of "nurture" and not of "nature". I do not believe that a gay or lesbian person is born that way. It is from the nurturing they receive one way or another or from an incident(s) that happened.

No where in this posting will you see anything from me that is homophobic so please do not get on me about that. I celebrate all diversity.

Perhaps not homophobic but you must not know any lgbt people....and if you know, you do not know them well. I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process.

And as for a 14 year old knowing she is attracted to both girls and boys.....why is that any different than a 14 yr old boy knowing he likes girls or a girl liking a boy....they clearly know they are attracted or that they like them....but does that mean they have had sex with them? Ridiculous!

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

Bullying and teaching tolerance should be a part of every school's curriculum. Our suicide rate is escalating every year, and some of it stems from bullying. Victims of bullies have become violent and found guns to do damage with. Some of this could be prevented!
Sometimes all that needs to happen is a teacher taking the time to explain to the whole class, with the victim and bully present, why some people bully. When you explain that bullies are very insecure people with emotoinal concerns, who don't quite feel that they measure up and therefore take their frustrations out on someone they think will not retaliate, without naming any names, it can free up the rest of the kids to discuss how to handle the situation. The bully will have to sit there and listen, but of course no names are used. You can even do role playing with certain age groups, and call on the bully to play the part of the victim. It is eye opening!
There are many ways to address this in earlier years, but if it isn't addressed until middle school, you have an angry preteen on your hands, and a more difficult job to do, but it still needs to be addressed.
As far as sex education, it is only information. There is always a prescribed curriculum, and information and knowledge does not cause harm; lack of information can cause much more harm. Understanding correct terms and basic biology is not going to hurt a child. If the information is over their heads, they filter it out and don't recall it very well. I always felt that if the child has the question, they deserve an answer.

To call yourself bi-sexual implies you ARE sexual with males and females. We are not talking attraction/friends/confidants etc. I'm not sure bragging about any "sexuality" is appropriate for a 14 year old boy or girl but what concern me more, is the picture of the girl. I think this is a travesty to have a child's picture plastered for everyone to see, gossip about etc. We have rules in this country to protect children - and thats even if they don't want protection. Do we publish pictures of children who have been abused, injured, famous parents? No, we always protect their identity. This is needless EXPOSURE of a child - yes a 14 year old child! An article OK - but pictures are criminal.

I applaud everyone who has shared their feelings about this topic. This is a good discourse about timely subjects.

I quite agree with Gracie! Tolerance has to be predicated on respect for those who think differently than you.
I have experienced the wonderful respect students can have for sensitive topics, if the correct tone and expectations are set beforehand. It really is possible to help young people to become responsible caring adults by helping them understand complex issues.
I have said quite enough and so I say Goodnight! :);)

You nailed it with that paragraph Gracie. Some of us not believing in Fact makes it hard to open our eyes to reality. Fact should not be based on what we like, but rather on what is TRUE.

" I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process. "

It would have been reasonable for the poster to disagree with me in a scholarly way (like GracieGirl and GolfingNut) but that poster lost all credibility with their rant of my viewpoint. This is supposed to be a forum where all can post their viewpoints.

Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I do thank Gracie for her kind comments about me. That is enough for me on this subject. Next subject, please.

So what do you think of the Tigers this season?

You said again....
Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I did not say just friends....I said they "liked" them or was attracted to them.

A person can know that they are attracted to someone....but it in no way means they have had any sexual relations...or even physical contact.

You can certainly post your opinion...but you may want to avoid putting false information. You did not state it was your opinion...you stated what seemed to be read as a fact....but it was not a fact at all.