[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

When the pilgrims first came to this land, there was no country here. There were simply tribal peoples. The land wasn't considered to be "owned" by anyone or considered to be part of any country.
So making a comparison to the first European people to come here and illegal immigrants is ludicrous.

Which of course, was the 'ludicrous reasoning' behind what amounted to the attempted genocide...of the native Americans already living here.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

A country has since been formed and as a country, we have laws that determine who may enter. This is not different from any other sovereign country on earth.

Conveniently ignoring that this is by far, the most significant country in history...to have been made almost entirely by immigrants.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

No one is against any people of any religion immigrating here.

That is an outright lie, that even the most naive person...realizes as such.

One only has to read the plethora of posts...proving you wrong.

In fact, there are about 32% (depending on the weekly poll), of people who would prefer not to have any of a certain religion immigrate here.

A recent election was won, by preying on the fear of being killed by something/someone that is thousands of times less likely to kill you...than heart disease, obesity, driving vehicles, etc.

Those facts, in and of themselves...shows how wrong your statement is.

Besides a massive prejudice toward a certain religion, what do you suppose could be the reason people are so afraid of dying from someone of that religion even when their odds are so much less...than the other causes I've listed?

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Most of the terrorists that have attacked us, (it's probably a good idea to remember that we were attacked and continue to be attacked) came from Muslim majority countries. If they had come and continued to come from Ireland, it would be prudent to look more closely at people trying to immigrate from Ireland.

Since I've already eviscerated the premise of your argument, let's move on to my previous question, of which you dodged, on why the predominately Muslim country that supplied most of the 9/11 perpetrators...was not on the list?

A person would have to be a fool, not to think that economic ties of certain people...wasn't the driving reason behind the choices of the predominately Muslim countries that didn't make the list.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

There is absolutely no rational argument that can be made against looking closely at who immigrates to this country and knowing who and where non-U.S. citizens are in this county.

I agreed above with this.

What I want to know, is how the accuracy of these background checks can be trusted?

Politics, power and those in the upper echelons of our government/private citizenry will have an outsize say in these choices...just as it has always been.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

No one is implying that all Muslims are terrorists. But no one can deny that the vast majority of terrorists who have been attacking us over the past 16 years have been Muslims.

You do mean except for Oklahoma, Columbine, Charleston, Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc.....right?

What did all of those have in common?

Most Of America’s Terrorists Are White, And Not Muslim | HuffPost

There were almost twice as many terrorist incidents by right-wing extremists as by Islamist extremists in the U.S. from 2008 to 2016, according to a new report from The Nation Institute’s Investigative Fund and The Center for Investigative Reporting’s Reveal.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

These people believe in an extremist form of Islam with which most Muslims disagree. Those Muslims want to kill as many U.S. citizens that they can and want to destroy our country and turn the entire world into a theocracy based on their religious belief. According to some on the left, we should ignore this threat and pretend that it does not exist because it might appear that we are discriminating on the basis of race or religion. That's utter nonsense.

Speaking of being ludicrous.

We shouldn't ignore ANY threat, but some people only choose to acknowledge the ones...that fit their own bias'.

[Moderator]

The topic is today's incident in New York. Discussion on immigration policy should be taken to the political forum. If posts continue to veer off topic, the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[Nucky]

Moderator Sir or Madam. Why isn't this thread closed now or those posts removed. To be even handed many other threads have been closed for much less and posts removed for a fraction of what I just read. Just wondering where the Red Line is? Or who the Red Line is enforced against! Not being a wise guy just asking a valid question.

[manaboutown]

Well if a country lets terrorists in this is the sort of thing that happens.

[collie1228]

How about this. Everyone who wants admission to our country gets a fair hearing but nobody gets the benefit of the doubt. We cannot let these evil people in, and it can't be that difficult for our government to effectively screen them all. Right now I believe one political party does not believe in borders or border control. The other party lies about its values and intentions (see tax bills being considered by Congress). We are in big trouble in this country folks.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Moderator

The topic is today's incident in New York. Discussion on immigration policy should be taken to the political forum. If posts continue to veer off topic, the thread will be closed.

Moderator

For those that may have missed the moderator's post...I believe it bears repeating.

[Nucky]

It is not easy living under the guideline of see something say something in the N.Y. Tristate area. Imagine beautiful little children living within range of a clown who pulls a stunt like this. The stress of living in the City atmosphere is not worth the excitement or extra money it brings I say when I look thru my lifes rear view mirror. All in all the bubble is better by far. Posting amongst people who appear to be in a position of power on this forum is not thrilling.

[Carl in Tampa]

For a few years I led Secret Service bomb search and disposal teams which were comprised of military (primarily Army) Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) personnel.

Seeing the photo of the bomber lying on the ground with blast burns on his torso and hands reminded me of a photo that was prominently displayed in the Army EOD unit at Ft. McNair.

It showed a bomber sitting on the ground with his chest and face blackened by a bomb blast, and his hands gone. The caption on the photo was "a good bomber." Of course the bomb had detonated prematurely, severely injuring the criminal bomber.

I may save the photo of today's NYC subway bomber to make into a similar poster.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

You mean since your distant relatives already immigrated here and you're only primarily against one religion immigrating...correct?


I'm pretty sure after the Native Americans saw what happened to them...they would now feel the same way about 'Christian immigrants.'


The positive side (if there is one from dying), is that the overwhelming vast majority of Americans will die of heart problems, obesity, car crashes, firearm accidents, etc....instead of from religious extremist terrorism.


That's why facts, not emotions manifested from fear tactics....matter.

Speaking of facts, maybe you should try that out?

The first immigrants to America were not in fact the Native Americans but rather the Solutreans ... ie Europeans from the Iberian area.

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

Speaking of facts, maybe you should try that out?

The first immigrants to America were not in fact the Native Americans but rather the Solutreans ... ie Europeans from the Iberian area.

Solutreans hypothesis. Hmmm.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[graciegirl]

The Bomber is injured and our granddaughter and our daughter who is there this week to help get her settled in her new apartment are fine. Our granddaughter moved to Manhattan just last week from Brooklyn and the bomber took the train from Brooklyn. (I know there are a lot of different scenarios, but this one could have been catastrophic) I heard an ex Federal Security person call the bomber a "bonehead" on television because he wasn't smart enough to make the bomb right or smart enough to blow himself and many others to Kingdom Come.

Thank God.

My grandfather who came from Germany as a very young man was indentured until he could live independently. Three of his American born sons served in the military against Hitler. I am proud of him and I am proud of our descendants. Working hard and saving their money and staying within the law have worked for them. It is my opinion that we should use common sense to continue to protect the United States and our grandchildren.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Which of course, was the 'ludicrous reasoning' behind what amounted to the attempted genocide...of the native Americans already living here.





Conveniently ignoring that this is by far, the most significant country in history...to have been made almost entirely by immigrants.



That is an outright lie, that even the most naive person...realizes as such.

One only has to read the plethora of posts...proving you wrong.

In fact, there are about 32% (depending on the weekly poll), of people who would prefer not to have any of a certain religion immigrate here.

A recent election was won, by preying on the fear of being killed by something/someone that is thousands of times less likely to kill you...than heart disease, obesity, driving vehicles, etc.

Those facts, in and of themselves...shows how wrong your statement is.

Besides a massive prejudice toward a certain religion, what do you suppose could be the reason people are so afraid of dying from someone of that religion even when their odds are so much less...than the other causes I've listed?


Since I've already eviscerated the premise of your argument, let's move on to my previous question, of which you dodged, on why the predominately Muslim country that supplied most of the 9/11 perpetrators...was not on the list?

A person would have to be a fool, not to think that economic ties of certain people...wasn't the driving reason behind the choices of the predominately Muslim countries that didn't make the list.


I agreed above with this.

What I want to know, is how the accuracy of these background checks can be trusted?

Politics, power and those in the upper echelons of our government/private citizenry will have an outsize say in these choices...just as it has always been.


You do mean except for Oklahoma, Columbine, Charleston, Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc.....right?

What did all of those have in common?

Most Of America’s Terrorists Are White, And Not Muslim | HuffPost




Speaking of being ludicrous.

We shouldn't ignore ANY threat, but some people only choose to acknowledge the ones...that fit their own bias'.

Which of course, was the 'ludicrous reasoning' behind what amounted to the attempted genocide...of the native Americans already living here.

The genocide of the native American people is a separate discussion from illegal immigration. The point is that the first Europeans that came here did not break any immigration laws because there were no immigration laws. If you want to have a discussion, please try to stay on topic and don't introduce extraneous information.

Conveniently ignoring that this is by far, the most significant country in history...to have been made almost entirely by immigrants.

No one is ignoring anything. Again, you've taken the subject from ILLEGAL immigration to legal immigration which has made this country great and hopefully will continue to do so. We have 11 million people in this country illegally. Do you not think that this is a problem?

That is an outright lie, that even the most naive person...realizes as such.

One only has to read the plethora of posts...proving you wrong.

In fact, there are about 32% (depending on the weekly poll), of people who would prefer not to have any of a certain religion immigrate here.

A recent election was won, by preying on the fear of being killed by something/someone that is thousands of times less likely to kill you...than heart disease, obesity, driving vehicles, etc.

Those facts, in and of themselves...shows how wrong your statement is.

Besides a massive prejudice toward a certain religion, what do you suppose could be the reason people are so afraid of dying from someone of that religion even when their odds are so much less...than the other causes I've listed?

Well, it's not a lie, but you make a good point. I should never use terms like no one or everyone or always or never. Most people realize that these terms are usually not meant literally.

The vast majority of people are not against legal immigration. The election of President Trump had very little to do with preying on fear and a desire to turn our country around and get rid of career politicians.
Are you saying that the fact that we can be killed by things other than terrorism, means that we should ignore the threat of terrorism? Should we not enforce laws against drunk driving because we are more likely to die of heart disease?
Of course, there is prejudice against Muslims. There is also prejudice against African Americans and Italian Americans, Jews and Irish Americans. There is prejudice against every group. However, most institutional discrimination based on race, religion, gender or sexual preference has been deemed to be illegal by our laws. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. it means that people break the law. But I disagree with your characterization that there is massive prejudice against Muslims.

Since I've already eviscerated the premise of your argument, let's move on to my previous question, of which you dodged, on why the predominately Muslim country that supplied most of the 9/11 perpetrators...was not on the list?

A person would have to be a fool, not to think that economic ties of certain people...wasn't the driving reason behind the choices of the predominately Muslim countries that didn't make the list.

As I've pointed out, you haven't eviscerated any of the points that I've made. As to why Saudi Arabia is not on the list, you'd have to ask the members of the Obama administration that came up with the list. Maybe it's because 9/11 was only one attack, albeit a huge one, there have not been any attackers from that country since.

I agreed above with this.

What I want to know, is how the accuracy of these background checks can be trusted?

Politics, power and those in the upper echelons of our government/private citizenry will have an outsize say in these choices...just as it has always been.

I agree politics and power play way to big of a role in our government. That is why it is so important to elect leaders that are not prefessional politicians. It's time to sweep out Congress, institute term limits and return us to a citiozen government. The longer people are in office, the more powerful they become.

You do mean except for Oklahoma, Columbine, Charleston, Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc.....right?

What did all of those have in common?

What they all had in common with the exception of possibly Oklahoma, is they were not attacks against our country for the purposes of influencing politics. I've heard this argument many times and I think that the people who make it need to look up the definition of terrorism.

Speaking of being ludicrous.

We shouldn't ignore ANY threat, but some people only choose to acknowledge the ones...that fit their own bias'.

So what threats are we ignoring? What threats to our nation exist?