[JimJohnson]

Hospital waiting times keep rising in Netherlands | NL Times

Please research before making false claims.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

In the Netherlands, even elective surgery like breast Enhancement is only 6 weeks. 4 months waiting for a required surgery is not true. We all must do fact checking before making untrue statements. This is about health and could have a negative affect on someone’s mental status.

That's what I was thinking. Breast reduction surgery is not a crucial surgery. It's elective.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I went to the link, but it looks like you have to pay to read the statistics?

Look at this one
Hospital waiting times keep rising in Netherlands | NL Times

[geofitz13]

When comparing health care systems of various countries, we need to look at what seems, at first, to be unrelated spending. That is, defense spending. Look at the tax rates in the countries that have been cited: Canada, Netherlands, Sweeden. Virtually no military spending, so their near-confiscatory tax rates can support universal health care. If the US were to eliminate military spending, or drastically cut such spending, and then adopt the same near-confiscatory tax rates, we could afford universal health care. I'm not at all convinced that going that route would be advisable. I can't imagine any other country coming to our defense.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by geofitz13

When comparing health care systems of various countries, we need to look at what seems, at first, to be unrelated spending. That is, defense spending. Look at the tax rates in the countries that have been cited: Canada, Netherlands, Sweeden. Virtually no military spending, so their near-confiscatory tax rates can support universal health care. If the US were to eliminate military spending, or drastically cut such spending, and then adopt the same near-confiscatory tax rates, we could afford universal health care. I'm not at all convinced that going that route would be advisable. I can't imagine any other country coming to our defense.

We have nuclear weapons, however, which do seem to put in question the need of the development of pre-WWI kind of navies, air forces and armies. This is no longer 1944 as we had the events of 1945 that should have changed drastically how we look at the military. It does though really highlight the need for human intelligence on the ground with respect to others' capabilities related to nuclear weapons. The cold war and all that.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

In the Netherlands, even elective surgery like breast Enhancement is only 6 weeks. 4 months waiting for a required surgery is not true. We all must do fact checking before making untrue statements. This is about health and could have a negative affect on someone’s mental status.

This was my friends sister and it happened about four years ago.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I agree, but there are 70 million people enrolled on Medicaid and 43 million on Medicare. So, there must be a lot of doctors accepting these programs.

Many of the 70million are children whose families live in poverty. Many of the 70million are adults who are usually healthy and have few medical needs at all. Some Medicaid recipients are homeless, some are drug addicted, some have chronic illness that requires long-term treatment.

But as I said - not all physicians accept Medicaid. Many do not. So if you have a bad knee that can be repaired (rather than replaced) they might force you to undergo months of excruciating physical therapy, multiple prescription drugs including steroids, a myriad of tests, and basically exhaust every POSSIBLE non-surgical method of treatment for a few years, until they finally cave and authorize the surgery. And then, the closest doctor who accepts Medicaid patients and does the out-patient surgery is a 3-hour drive from your house.

Good luck with that.

Medicaid is wonderful - if you have few medical needs. There are kids whose parents drive them every weekend to an entirely different state for chemo treatments, because their state's chemo center that accepts children - don't accept childrens' medicaid. Or there's a 2-year waiting list for those that do.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

It is interesting that the link provided doesn't say anything about a four month wait for a major, time sensitive surgery. Seems like that would be an important thing to include in the health care description.

Her post is also inaccurate with regards to public universities in Austria. They are tuition-free to ALL Austrian students, and only non-Austrians pay a modest tuition fee, and ALL students pay a student union fee.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aloha1

A couple brief points; First, what is ALWAYS overlooked in these discussions is the fact that Health Insurance IS NOT Health Care. We have a severe shortage of physicians in this country that is only getting worse. We need 10,000 more Physicians today and double that in 15 years. Why is this happening? Because older Physicians are retiring and not enough new ones are being trained. It takes a minimum of 12 years to turn out a newly minted Doc and these highly skilled life savers are not going to work for free. So, add another 50 million or so to an already understaffed system and what you get is not health care but triage which leads to substandard health care for all.

Another fact that is overlooked is that most of the other systems cited around the world as proof that government controlled health care works are generally countries with a fraction of the population of the U.S. Example New Zealand - great general care but population of 5 million. Same with any EU country. We have 325 million people in this country. You cannot compare us to countries with a fraction of that population.

Finally, the ACA was supposed to give INSURANCE to 30 million uninsured. Now all the Democrats are running from the program they supported lock, stock, and barrel. Why is that? Because the American people do not want to be told what to do, they want freedom of choice. And they have learned that health insurance is NOT health care.

More later

Note that the ACA has been gutted. Those are not my words but come directly from the Government.

We were told there would be an alternative, but still not forthcoming.

Adding that Bucco loudly and with great gusto opposed the ACA on this forum (see my past posts in that regard during that time frame), but certainly never expected it to be gutted without a replacement. I felt it would end up being modified, hopefully improvedon.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

Any service or benefit provided will not be free. Here is the problem I have placing government in charge. Our Government has paid $14,000 each for 3D printed toilet seat lids, $436 for hammers, $117 for soap dish covers, $999 for pliers, and on and on. Government has proven consistently that it cannot manage efficiently. For four decades Congress, that is mandated to pass a budget annually, has only done so 4 times, 1977~1989~1995~1997. With this in mind I cannot in good conscience support placing our Government in charge of Medicare for all, not withstanding all the other “FREE” services that are under discussion. The more we are taxed only increases the percentage/amount of wasted spending that will follow. Tax revenues will be paying for all of this. The concept of Medicare for all, healthcare for all, etc., etc., may or may not be bad concepts, except for the proposed manager of these plans, the US Government.

Then it is our responsibility as the people who decide who gets to be those plan managers, to decide wisely.

[Northwoods]

This is a quote from the Netherlands Healthcare link above:
"You must be referred by your local doctor in order to see a specialist. Most specialists work in a hospital setting, and unfortunately you may experience a long wait period. The basic health insurance package will cover a visit to a specialist, but an excess fee may apply, depending on the treatment."

[Northwoods]

I have one request for any universal healthcare system that is implemented in the U.S. All of Congress has to give up their current healthcare package and be put on the universal healthcare system. They have to pay any fees not paid by the universal healthcare system. I do think that will make them pay a little more attention to what they vote into law.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Northwoods

I have one request for any universal healthcare system that is implemented in the U.S. All of Congress has to give up their current healthcare package and be put on the universal healthcare system. They have to pay any fees not paid by the universal healthcare system. I do think that will make them pay a little more attention to what they vote into law.

All of Congress is provided the same packages that are available through the ACA Marketplace. They can get that, or they can pay out of pocket for whatever other plan they wish with no reimbursement.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Northwoods

I have one request for any universal healthcare system that is implemented in the U.S. All of Congress has to give up their current healthcare package and be put on the universal healthcare system. They have to pay any fees not paid by the universal healthcare system. I do think that will make them pay a little more attention to what they vote into law.

Well, you get your wish,. Sen Grassy (R) in 2009 wrote a law requiring Congress Critters to do just that. But, it is even more so for them, since other citizens only have to maintain employer based insurance to qualify to not purchase their's through ACA. Congress does not qualify for that exemption. So, in fact Congress has stricter rules applied to ensure they must "go through the hoops and red tape" that American's have to go through when using ACA.

So, a R (Grassy) wrote the law, and a D (Obama) signed it into law.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

What is Medicare for all with no premiums, no co pays, no Doctor limitations and the only premium for it is a $200 max cost for drugs/year. That does not sound like Medicare that I have. I have co pays, premiums and pay extra to have drug coverage and this after paying for years. Also certain coverages stop after awhile. My health care is not a right.

This campaign should not be calling this Medicare because it has no resemblance to Medicare which is not free by any measure.

It's basically Venezuelan-style health care.