[JimJohnson]

This article
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docser...E72CD370075AC2
Has easy to read charts the clearly show surgery wait times in the Netherlands has been one of the best in the world. I never trust friends and relatives when it comes to health issues.

[Vikingjunior]

Many doctors take Medicaid because it’s not really Medicaid anymore. All Medicaid recipients are now on a managed care. It’s true in the old days not many doctors accepted Medicaid but things have changed dramatically.

[bilcon]

Ask the Europeans how socialized medicine is working for them. Many of them have given up on it and are buying private insurance and going to doctors of their choice. Nothing is free in this world except for those who don't wish to work.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

It's basically Venezuelan-style health care.

Why did you used Venezuelan heath care as an example, because that is a failed, state?

How about these note that none of these are failed states, all are rated as the citizens being happier and healthier than the US - (Notice the US at the bottom of the list) by intonations studies.

Netherlands
Australia
Sweden
Japan
Austria
Germany
France
United Kingdom

United States

[Martian]

Originally Posted by bilcon

Ask the Europeans how socialized medicine is working for them. Many of them have given up on it and are buying private insurance and going to doctors of their choice. Nothing is free in this world except for those who don't wish to work.

Of a billion people, some are dissatisfied. Why now ask how many American's are happy with our health care system. EVERY independent study shows citizens of the following countries are happier and healthier than Americans.

Netherlands
Australia
Sweden
Japan
Austria
German
France
United Kingdom

Obviously when. dealing with BILLIONS of people one is not going to find perfection in this lifetime. So, what we are looking for is better. Better as rated by real costs (not just premiums), out come (how healthy is the population) and "customer satisfaction". Our system is almost universally disliked (90%) while other industrialized countries have much higher satisfaction and performance levels.

We can keep looking for perfection by throwing out individual anecdotal examples of problems and just keep paying more and more and getting less and less, or we can grow up, quit making name calling more important than discussion, and look for a way to improve our system.

It really is our choice, what do we want to leave our children? Higher bills and poor quality care, or lower bills and higher quality care. We choose, but they have to live with it.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by bilcon

Ask the Europeans how socialized medicine is working for them. .

The World Health Organization did just that, here is their results:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA

[Martian]

Originally Posted by bilcon

Nothing is free in this world except for those who don't wish to work.

This is just a dog whistles and by that I mean it is a cheering point at rallies, but has nothing to do with helping the situation.

No serious candidates are believe that some how they can wave a magic piece of legislation and magical fairies will show up and make everyone healthy.

Everything costs, what we are trying to do is to find a way to have healthy citizens that we can afford.

Universal health care proposals take into account cost/benefit analysis and show that by improving everyones health society (all of us) will on a average pay less.

Obviously no system is perfect, but constantly pointing out obvious failing of some systems doesn't help find a system that will work.

[Polar Bear]

Guess all those lists make it fact...American citizens are all miserable and unhealthy compared to the rest of the world.

Yeah, right.

[geofitz13]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

We have nuclear weapons, however, which do seem to put in question the need of the development of pre-WWI kind of navies, air forces and armies. This is no longer 1944 as we had the events of 1945 that should have changed drastically how we look at the military. It does though really highlight the need for human intelligence on the ground with respect to others' capabilities related to nuclear weapons. The cold war and all that.

Wow. If I am reading this correctly, you think our only defense should be nuclear? There are some really bad people out there who would do us harm. I do not want to rely on nuclear as our only defense.

[Taltarzac725]

Do find ObamaCare a bit of a huge mess.

I did not qualify for it because our household takes in too much money.

I am very worried though about what will happen with medical care in the future. Especially with pre-existing conditions on how the relate to medical insurance.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by bilcon

Ask the Europeans how socialized medicine is working for them. Many of them have given up on it and are buying private insurance and going to doctors of their choice. Nothing is free in this world except for those who don't wish to work.

Where are the facts to substantiate your claim? All the top-rated health care systems in the world are national health care systems.

We live in France for almost half the year, and qualify for France's health care. I hear NOBODY over here complaining about their health care. In fact, it is highly praised.

Here's another list to add to the WHO list. http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by bilcon

Ask the Europeans how socialized medicine is working for them. Many of them have given up on it and are buying private insurance and going to doctors of their choice. Nothing is free in this world except for those who don't wish to work.

Where are the facts to substantiate your claim? All the top-rated health care systems in the world are national health care systems.

We live in France for almost half the year, and qualify for France's health care. I hear NOBODY over here complaining about their health care. In fact, it is highly praised.

Here's another list to add to the one Martian gave. http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/

[JimJohnson]

Let’s get back to Medicare for all!!!

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Where are the facts to substantiate your claim? All the top-rated health care systems in the world are national health care systems.

We live in France for almost half the year, and qualify for France's health care. I hear NOBODY over here complaining about their health care. In fact, it is highly praised.

Here's another list to add to the one Martian gave. http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/

This is true of the majority of countries with socialized medicine. In the US, the wealthy can have cosmetic surgery while the poor cannot get life saving surgery. That’s wrong no matter how you say it. Another problem in the US, The vast majority of Americans DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOCIALISM AND COMMUNISM. In the Christian faith, a true Christian would sacrifice themselves to help others. Unfortunately in America, that’s not what we have.

[Boomer]

Like a lot of things, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

There is a huge need for access to decent health insurance for people to buy in to — at a reasonable cost — if they so CHOOSE. Not like the days before the ACA blocked insurance companies from refusing to cover pre-existing conditions. (It was not so long ago when people would pay good money for individual coverage and then not be covered like they were led to believe. Sometimes I think we are a nation of amnesiacs.)

If such a plan were to be available through the government, it could be standardized, like Medicare, and could change a lot of American lives — early retirees; those who have been downsized; entrepreneurs; those who are working at jobs with no benefits — and others I cannot think of right now because I am hurrying to try not to get caught up in this thread.

If anyone so opposed to Democrats actually gave a fair listening to the candidates the other night, they would have heard those who said what I just said — answers are in the middle. Choice is important.

Health insurance and Big Pharma are among the biggest lobbyists. Our American lives are now held in the hands of those with greasy palms.

I think the battle call of “Medicare for All” is drowning out those who understand the big picture best and want to solve the problem with fairness and common sense — middle ground.