This is the first time in my life I have heard big business referred to in such a way. My husband worked for one of the ten largest corporations in the world at one time for 52 years and climbed the ranks. He worked hard for them and they rewarded him with good benefits and a decent salary and some mighty nice perks over time. He started in a lowly positon breaking down big shipping boxes in the union and climbed to a position that he enjoyed and that he did a great job in.

I never thought of them as greedy. I am astonished to move here and run into this attitude and generally it is from people who have not worked in a business for profit situation all of their life. They may have worked for the government or in academia.

It is just how business works and it isn't that some fat cats are making a killing. If the company is in a for profit situation and is making a good margin, they can and do hire more people, give them benefits and a chance at a good life like we have had.

There are unethical and underhanded people in all walks of life. I have never run into this bias before.

owner greed, corporate greed, whatever! greed is simply a rationale used by those who are capable but are too lazy to work harder, run faster, jump higher and achieve greater heights in career and/or life.

If you raise the minimum wage, the cost of everything you make, produce or deliver has to go up to pay for the increased cost of business due to the increased minimum wage and you are starting an inflationary cycle. The government needs to stay out of trying to control businesses. It never works.

lotsa 20 somethings are gonna stay on mommy/daddy's insurance until they turn 26! and that's gonna be a big blow to the $$ the AHCA is supposed to generate to offset expenses! so min wage won't hafta increase for those 20 somethings because of the cost of healthcare!

but i don't wanna hijack this thread.

By the schools, of course. Many schools allow or require internships, but some of those only allow the students to participate in internships if their grades are high enough. I believe that if students with lower grades were allowed to intern, they might become better students as they may come to realize why they are in school in the first place.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions as to why there is a disparity between the poor and the rich. Those that point to the greed of Wall Street types have forgotten that they are likely painted by the same brush.

If you have a pension, you are likely in cahoots with those Greedy Wall Street types for it is the shareholders (investors)(pension funds) in companies that push for ever greater and greater short term profits often at the expense of R&D, reinvestment into equipment and increased wages for employees.

Holy Molly! Ain't ya gettn' it. The idea is to bring in non-paying to help the non-doing.
That age 26 will be on the chopping block and soon!!

yeah i got it - it's in my post!

These 20 somethings could have insurance now, and quite cheaply, but most choose to spend their money on other things. You will soon find that most of these will choose to pay the penalty rather than the premium, especially when they see what the deductibles are going to be.

I only mind corporate greed when they find ways to skip out on taxes or even get refunds from IRS while somehow they convince us that our real problem is food stamps, welfare and social security.

Other than that greed away.

The real successful business find ways to satisfy their employees needs. Other take advantage in hard times.

NJBCHBUM......you are hearing the "talking points".

This new law, which even those who pushed it won't discuss,will bring severe financial stress to this country.

Not a new prediction for sure, but I sure wish the "ins" at the time had at least talked privately with the "outs" to prevent what is coming.

And you are not hi jacking....any discussion on min wage or anything having to do with jobs, etc. must go through this new law.

Quite cheaply? Are we still talking about those on minimum wage!

Gracie, I agree 150%. My husband started as an hourly employee and after 40 years and many, many hours of hard work ended his career as a director of a Fortune 500 company. This didn't happen by chance or luck or greed. He worked his A** off and was rewarded as such. Minimum wage is a "starting" salary. It is up to you what happens after that. The President of McDonalds started with that dreadful minimum wage. Oh, and btw when my husband needed experience on his résumé at the beginning of his career, he offered to work for free but the company paid him minimum wage and hired him only because he wanted it bad enough to work for the experience only.

I think the alternate plan is they get job that provides health insurance or bust their butt and make enough to pay for it.

There are companies that offer health insurance. My niece worked at Starbucks while in school, now that she has a "real job" she still works PT at Starbucks for the benefits. She gets health care for $30/month, stock options and a free pound of coffee a week. I think Publix gives benefits. Yet, people complain about the prices at these two places, DUH, you can't have it both ways.

The 20 somethings that are supposed to be buying insurance, now or later, are definitely not the ones earning minimum wage. That is just not going to ever happen unless the employer can find a way to afford it. But the point is that most 20 somethings, regardless of their incomes, have no interest in health insurance. They are invincible and their disposable income goes for fun.

Yup!

I think that most healthy 20 somethings might be better off buy inexpensive catastrophic insurance and paying for their rare doctor's visits and prescriptions out of pocket. I'd guess that most of them would save money.

You also know that a call placed to Mom and Dad will take care of those doctor visit and prescription costs, too.

You probably are right about buying the catastrophic insurance.

Greed?
 

Unless you have owned a business, you really have no idea. There are many business owners that don't make $15/hour themselves. Does that surprise you? Well, if you consider the hours that it takes that nobody sees (like the book keeping, cleaning, laundry, ordering, counting stock etc, etc) it is a huge amount of time. How about evenings and weekends - most small businesses are run by the true grit of the owner. When all else fails - its the owners job. Someone doesn't show up for work, now the owner does their work and the employees work....its got to get done somehow. After all, the other employees are depending on their job to survive. So the small business owner sucks it up and does what needs to be done. This once great nation was built on this premise.......greedy my foot!

Last summer we were fortunate to spend several weeks in Australia. What a beautiful, clean and safe country. We loved every minute.

We spoke to many locals who did not understand how our nation is in the shape it is financially. I must admit, it gave us pause.

They have national health care and have had for years. People our age are very happy with the system and did not understand why it is controversial here.

They have a living wage for all workers. The minimum wage is about $16-18/hr. There is no tipping. None expected.

They have a federal budget SURPLUS and when we were there, they were concerned that the surplus was a few billion less than expected. Banks pay 5%.....not 0.5% interest on CDs.

It was an amazing country to visit and we enjoyed the natural beauty of the great barrier reef, the fantastic contrast of historical and modern architecture of Sydney.

I must admit, it made us wonder how 2 countries so similar in so many ways could have such a financial contrast.

I don't have any answers. Just lots of questions........

I stopped writing last night and this morning, I have read all the responses, did some verification research. Now mainly because no one insulted my opinions, but rather, (TKS PATTI55) gave me other things to consider, I would like to amend my previous opinion to the following:

Minimum wage is not a living wage for a family, but maybe it was never intended to be so. If you find your self in a minimum wage job at that stage of your life, it may be time to rethink your path and change it. Self education, Work ethics and Honesty most likely will allow you to move up where you are or get a shinning recommendation from your minimum wage BOSS and help to find that better paying job. I am bullheaded and rarely change my opinion, but this thread has done just that when it comes to making minimum wage $15,00 per hour. I thank all for their calm considerate posts that made that happen.

Some "generally speaking" questions:

This is post #65 in a long thread about the minimum wage, and no one has given a moment of thought as to WHY there is a mandated minimum wage to begin with. Could it have something to do with an attempt to "legislate morality"?

Why is it that some of those who recognize themselves as "realistic" seem also to realize that they come across at the same time as "unfeeling," that somehow "realistic" sounds like a good thing whereas "unfeeling" does not?

I too owned an extraordinarily successful small business and was fortunate that when it disappeared virtually overnight to India (and let's leave "greed" out of the equation), I was of retirement age and so it was all right. Maybe that is a selfish thought on my part, but what of those younger hard-working American business owners and their hard-working American employees: Where does it leave them?

Golfingnut - I applaud your open mind and even more that you shared your change of heart with us.

You know it does not really matter what the minimum wage is. I am sure most of us remember when the minimum wage was $1.25 per hour and that is what we had our part time jobs on. Now, it is around $7.50 per hour.

A GS-18 in the Federal Government at that time made $36,000 per year and that is the highest civilian pay grade. Today, that employee (called SES) makes about $175,000. As the lower pay scales increase, so do all the levels above them.

If a hamburger flipper at McDonalds earned $15 per year or $31,300 per year, all the other salaries would double as well. We would see "paper inflation" where the salaries would look huge but then the cost of goods and services would also increase at the same rate.

Your $2.79 loaf of Italian 5 grain bread would cost around $5, gasoline would double to over $7 per gallon, houses would double to around $600,000 and cars might easily cost $45,000 for a basic model.

Conversly, if you took that back to the time when the minimum wage was $1.25 and other salaries were in line with that; prices seemed lower if we look back at them with today's prices - but all were in line with earnings. We all remember gasoline at .35 per gallon, McDonalds meal for 45 cents, houses at $25,000, and a new car at $2,500.

Golfingnut - Thanks for your honesty. Don't forget that your intended purpose is honorable and right. Kudo's to you!

I'm always puzzled by the point of view you express. If you support $15/hour .... why not $20? $30? etc? Economics does not work like that. It just doesn't.

How many customers would just stop going to fast food places if the prices doubled? Answer ... a lot. How many employees would then lose their job at the higher wage? Answer ... again, a lot. What's the net result of a good intentioned policy? Look at Detroit for an analogy.

Have you personally ever actually run a business? Do you have any experience at all in this regard? Would you double the wages of your employees overnight and then expect to rack up higher sales??

There is such a chasm between the good things people understandably "want" and what reality allows well intentioned people to actually do.

I agree. Most people that advocate these kind of things are genuinely trying to think of ways to improve the lives of the poorest among us. Unfortunately, you know what they say about good intentions. They often pave the road to ruin.

I think that is something that most of us have to realize. We all want the same things, It's just that we differ in opinion on what re the best methods of attaining them

It would be nice jet to see the MW keep up with its standing in previous years. If raising it 2 dollars per hour makes it equivalent with the MW in 1972 then let's do it and place it on a sliding scale to keep it equal with previous years.

If minimum wage doubled to $15, other salaries would go up in the same proportion and aso prices would go up in the same way to meet all those increased wages. It would just be hyperinflation and no one would benefit.

Do you think your Social Security retirement benefits would increase at the same rate to keep up with the hyperinflation?

Has anyone seen all the nauseating photos the employees of these fast food chains that have been put on the Internet, which the media has picked up?

A staggering $15.00 for that? No!

some where in the eqation there has to be a consideration for what some jobs are worth and especially not worth.

The driver cannot be the needs of the workforce. Used to be the single biggest advantage to meet the needs of the worker were hard work to get the next higher paying job. That seems to not even be a matter of fact or consideration in our "modern" era of expectations.

btk

This article has several crucial points to understand about this topic:

"Are national minimum wage protests at fast-food chains a spontaneous reaction to the slow-growing economy and sluggish labor market?

No, these protests are organized by a campaign called Fast Food Forward, led by the worker center New York Communities for Change, funded in part by unions, including the Services Employees International Union. Read about New York Communities for Change.

This was brought home to me when I was on National Public Radio’s show “On Point” with host Tom Ashbrook on Wednesday. Also on the show was Terrance Wise, 34, who has three daughters and has worked at fast-food restaurants for 18 years.

Terrance is not your typical minimum wage worker. Most minimum wage workers move on after a couple of years, because turnover in the fast-food industry is rapid. When I asked NPR how to get in touch with Terrance, I was given the name of his publicist. A minimum-wage worker with a publicist? That’s something.

Turns out Terrance’s publicist is strategic consulting firm BerlinRosen, which has an impressive list of union clients, including the SEIU. According to BerlinRosen’s web site: “We work with our union clients to develop hard-hitting campaigns that bring together eye-catching member-to-member mail, persuasive tv ads, phone programs, web campaigns and earned media to help deliver your message and win the day.”

No matter that raising the minimum wage to a “living wage” of $15 an hour, which is what protesters demand, would hurt young and unskilled workers, those employees whom protestors supposedly represent. Fewer people would be hired, and the young and low-skilled would lose job opportunities...."

Hiking minimum wage threatens U.S. jobs - Diana Furchtgott-Roth - MarketWatch

Minimum wage is a starting salary for untrained, unskilled people. They are expected to be promoted above minimum wage when they learn how to work and can get a better job, leaving the minimum wage job open to another person entering the workforce.

Somehow we have lost sight of this - probably because we keep hearing how stinking the economy is and there are no jobs so people think this is it for the rest of my life.:shrug:

Please expand a little on why you call them that.

I have seen photos on various newspapers of employees working in fast food restaurants doing unspeakable acts on food items. Surely you have seen these over the last couple of weeks!

We are about to set off on yet another long drive across America. We got tired of the fast food drive-thru, so we began going to a shop that sold foot long submarine sandwiches. Did you see the last picture of the man on the Internet??? Made my stomach turn over!

Yes, I know that every business maybe does something like this at one time or another, but the arrogance and stupidity of the people that proudly show it on the Internet tells me of the level of civility / decency / education these people have.

I'm not about to pay a staggering $15.00 for that.

All true and an excellent post! Yet somehow we have to figure out how to solve some inequities. Today's minimum wage adjusted for inflation and iis more than $2 an hour less than the $2.25 minimum wage in the 1960's. the average age of a minimum wage worker has climbed from teenager to 27 years old. Many minimum wage workers today are not given enough hours to qualify for benefits. So while I agree that doubling the minimum wage to $15 an hour will not solve anything and may force many mom and pop businesses out, there are other issues that need to be looked at too. While I cannot readily cite the sources of my statements, I can relate a personal story of a minimum wage worker. My brother in law graduated stoneybrook univ. in NY in the 1970's with a BS degree. He couldn't find a job and went to work for Burger King. He was soon promoted to night mgr, then day mgr, then store mgr, then area mgr, then district mgr. they sent him to business classes at Wharton and Harvard. When they wanted to open up Europe they chose him and he spent 3 years in London. Then they wanted to open up Asia and again chose him and he lived in Tokyo for 2 years. He's 60 years old and has been retired vey comfortably for 10 years. Not bad for a minimum wage worker!

BarryRX - that is the way it is supposed to work, but I'll say it again we have lost sight of these jobs being a stepping stone - people now see them as a career!

the social environment we have allowed to germinate within our society breeds an entitlement type mentallity. For example, no matter how unaffordable new technology and data plans and internet acces can be, "they" all have it....whether they can afford it or not. Then there is an expectation that some way or another, there must be a way to get more money to supplement/subsidize the lifestyle to an almost you owe me attitude.

Some of us remember and still live by the a style that dictates you don't get it until you can afford it. And if you can't....you simply don't. An extreme contrary to today's mentality and to my surprise even supported by those who should know better.

If you don't or didn't earn it....you simply do not get it.....and YOU ARE CERTAINLY NOT ENTITLED!!!!

btk

An excellent post and you make some very good points. But aren't some of the problems that you cite the fault of some (not all) of the workers themselves? And can't we place some of the blame on our society and educational system?
Many of the minimum wage workers are not worth the money that they are getting paid. Many have not educated themselves and as another poster pointed out are part of the "I am owed" society that we have become. I believe that the high school drop out rate is the highest that it's ever been so we have many more uneducated people entering the workplace and don't have the skills to advance like your brother-in-law did. Have we not lowered the standards in our educational system to make the drop out rate lower than it even might be had we maintained the standard that we once had? So now we have high school graduates that have what would once have been an eighth grade education.
We also have had many colleges lowering standards in order to admit more students. I taught part time at a college of over 15 years and was continually stunned by the lack of knowledge and intelligence of so many of my students. Many, simply did not belong in college and should have been counseled to go to a trade school. But, we have also developed an attitude in this country that every kid must go to college. You are seen as a failure as a parent if you child doesn't go to college.
Many college's today are more interested in their bottom line and expanding so that they can make more money than they are the education of our future work force. College has become too much of a business today. We have kids graduating colleges that should never have gotten out of high school. Because of this, a high school degree is worthless today and a bachelor's degree, in many cases, is equivalent to what a high diploma once was.
I'm not saying that this is the entire problem and certainly there are some good qualified people out there who are making less than what they should, but there are at least as many who do not do enough to even earn the minimum wage that they get. How is a business supposed to succeed when they need to hire two incompetent people to do the work of one competent employee? On top of that, the government keeps making them pay the incompetent people even more.
There might be some inequity as you say, but I think that most people get pretty much what they deserve.