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-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   My hope...... (not political, only polite dialog) (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/my-hope-not-political-only-polite-dialog-334406/)

Joe C. 08-15-2022 07:58 AM
To kill the beast, why not emulate our southern neighbors and take away the holy grail of presidential reelection campaigns
nuff said[/QUOTE]

And THAT is why Mexico is such a screwed up, violent, poverty stricken third world country.

The Chipster 08-15-2022 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 2125808)
TRUTH will survive lies, (Dragnet, Jack Webb quote, "Give me the facts, ONLY the facts)
Americans will meet in the middle and extremes will be a thing of the past.
I love our country and hope we will survive this bump in the road.
Tone down rhetoric, research all sources.
I think we all know who the main players are, spewing out hard-core misinformation, which becomes addictive to the ill-informed.. There is nothing stopping this, thus it will continue to spread like cancer.

This is how great empires fail, often suddenly and catastrophically.

Mikee1 08-15-2022 08:07 AM
Interesting Read
 
When you get a minute or three, google and read the five stages of a society. You may be surprised.

dsgreen3 08-15-2022 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammaiora (Post 2126078)
Not true! Right now it is only one side who is armed and a threat. I can sense what side you are on!
You are referring to Antifa right?

Villages Kahuna 08-15-2022 08:17 AM
I wish there was some evidence of your belief. I’ve concluded that I won’t see peaceful co-existence of Americans with differing political and social views. History shows that even the strongest societies have definite lifespans. I’m afraid the American democracy is moving towards the end of it’s life span.

Unfortunately America seems to be headed towards a system of governance that caused our forefathers to leave their homes and travel to the New World to form the democracy that has served us so well for going on 300 years. Where do Americans who wish to escape the current political conflict go? That’s a question with a very uncertain answer.

airstreamingypsy 08-15-2022 08:21 AM
I think we are doomed. Why? Because a TV "news" show is allowed to tell their listeners any lie that want to. The lies are stirring people up into a frenzy. If there is a civil war, which could happen, I think the root of it is all the lies coming from one place. They not only lie, but they give the crazies a platform.

ThirdOfFive 08-15-2022 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2126084)
I would not put too much faith in faith, or good.
Through history, the strong have always triumphed over the weak.
Only negotiations from a position of strength are worth a s**t!
Aye.

"Speak softly, but carry a big stick".

cegallup 08-15-2022 08:24 AM
Civil and polite ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2125907)
Absolutely agree with everything you said.
It's hard to be civil and polite towards a faction you perceive to be trying to destroy our country.That's the reason we have (had?) the 1st Amendment.

conman5652@aol.com 08-15-2022 08:25 AM
Take the massive money out of it. Limited every donation to 100.00 and only one time to any candidate.
No corporate donation to any candidates. Period

haysus7 08-15-2022 08:27 AM
I really wish candidates could pass a basic civics test before running for office.

ThirdOfFive 08-15-2022 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikee1 (Post 2126101)
When you get a minute or three, google and read the five stages of a society. You may be surprised.
Some years back I read something posited by an historian, to the effect that great nations do not die from forces from without, but from rot from within. The person divided the process into stages; something like 114 "stages" all told that mark the dying process of great nations. It reflected Rome almost to a "T". And America is much farther along that particular continuum than I think most Americans realize.

"Bread and circuses" don't necessarily have to occur in a colosseum.

Boomer 08-15-2022 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126053)
The short reply: yes.

Social media (the mother of all oxymorons, in my opinion) is a cancer in this country. Of course, many people use it properly: my wife for example can talk to her family and friends in Thailand via FaceTime whenever the urge strikes her, as well as both of us being able to communicate face-to-face with family in Minnesota. But in my opinion the minuses of the venue outweigh the pluses. No matter how bizarre or dangerous one's beliefs might be, it is no problem to find like-minded people on the internet and communicate with them. And if what you are looking for is not information but VALIDATION (which I think all too many people are), then there is no point of view that cannot be validated through social media.

But the danger does not stop there. I understand that nefarious things have been going on only forever but the existence of social media makes it far too easy for the evil-minded among us to do what they do. Recruiting underage girls for the sex trade, for example. Set up drug deals. Arrange smash-and-grabs (there were incidents in Minnesota before we left where groups of people would all of a sudden show up in various vehicles at a big-box store, effectively raid the place of all the appliances and electronics they could carry, then run out the door with them and be gone in a matter of a few minutes; easily evading the police no matter if the police were called the minute the group began looting. And so on. Probably dozens more examples.

And let's not forget spreading hate. Back in the day, if you wanted to write, say, a letter to the editor, you sat down at a keyboard, or grabbed a pen and paper and wrote your letter. Maybe it would be printed in a week or two, maybe longer. But you knew upfront that it would be screened, maybe edited for grammar, some content deemed objectionable possibly taken out, etc. But today? Any yokel with an ax to grind or the intent to stir up negative emotions can sit down at his or her keyboard and dash off letters, opinions, and observations to this--or-that discussion group or newspaper thread that before the advent of the internet, especially as it exists today, would never have seen the light of day. And more and more those sites aren't even monitored, or rely on customer monitoring, which is a joke. Anyone who reads the "discussions" following newspaper articles know exactly what I mean by this. Hatred reigns.

Sir Winston Churchill once observed that "a lie can make it halfway around the world before the truth can get it's pants on". I doubt Sir Winston would have had even the slightest idea of just how right the future would prove him to be.

ThirdOfFive,

Thank you for taking the time to write your insightful post.

We are living in a time when we are finding out who we really are……..

and finding out who others really are.

Your point about people looking for validation through screens goes straight to the core of human nature.

I could never have imagined that so many people — some of whom I know very well — would relinquish their brains to a screen.

Friendships and families — even marriages — are being damaged and sometimes destroyed by the hate, fear, and paranoia mongers who create chaos — with the goal of money and power.

Pogo was right.

Boomer

Caymus 08-15-2022 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammaiora (Post 2126078)
Not true! Right now it is only one side who is armed and a threat. I can sense what side you are on!
Which side controls the large high gun crime cities?

Tvflguy 08-15-2022 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 2126044)
One nine year term for senators and one six year term for representatives. Replace one third of each body every three years. Any person would be limited to one term in each body and two terms as president in their lifetime. Eliminate all congressional re-elect
campaigns.

Yes term limits. BUT in the federal gvt structure the ones impacted would need to bring this forward. Sure…. IMO never would see the light of day. Sad.

This would be like Union members saying oh we have enough salary or great benefits. Or if the company they are working for is close to serious financial trouble they say, eliminate my job based on highest tenure goes first.

ThirdOfFive 08-15-2022 08:37 AM
Several posts in this thread have the flavor of "we all know", or which side...". Things like that.

I have an instinctive mistrust of anything being presented that uses blanket statements. One has to wonder, just how many of those opinions are formed by thought and research, vs. kneejerk reactions to what we hear? Far too many, I think. The people trying to influence our opinions are experts.

fgaba1949 08-15-2022 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2126071)
I have for a long time been an advocate of mandatory voting. I have spent time in Ecuador and they require all citizens to vote by law, or they are fined. They also "require" visitors to Ecuador to vote.

With all that is going on today, and how people have become entrenched in their sides lines, I am changing my mind. A long time ago a different system was proposed and debated. It has been tried in various places and various times for a couple thousand years. We even use it here in some cases.

It is called sortition. It has been argued that voting system always end up with an oligarchy (what we have today, where the rich and powerful own the government). A sortition system picks citizens are "random" so that the representatives reflect the people. This completely eliminates the presence of money from the selection process. We use this today in many community councils, in jury selections, etc.
I seriously dont think of mandatory voting makes any sense .
One right the people should always have is to decide to vote or not .
Honestly by mandating people to vote is very counterproductive...if the person doesn't like either candidate then they should have the right to NOT VOTE ....
the problem isn't in the voting it's not having candidates that people want to vote for...

fgaba1949 08-15-2022 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126061)
I agree. Not all of the eligible voters, vote.

Many countries have compulsory voting. I think America would benefit if we had it also; every eligible voter in America must vote in every election or have a good reason why not. It would go a long way toward restoring confidence in our system.

Disagree .....the problem is not the voting but that the candidates running do not make the voter WANT to vote for EITHER ONE

fgaba1949 08-15-2022 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 2126044)
One nine year term for senators and one six year term for representatives. Replace one third of each body every three years. Any person would be limited to one term in each body and two terms as president in their lifetime. Eliminate all congressional re-election campaigns.
of course i agree and it makes total sense

but we have lost the members of congress to represent us to this most obvious need for reform

So does anyone on here actually believe that OUR congress will ever pass term limits ? No way

THEY control us we do not control THEM

bp243 08-15-2022 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2125840)
Don't let anyone over 65 run for, or remain in high office.
Nothing new ever comes from old people.
Too immersed in the past.
There is some truth to those comments, but seeing the news today concerning new legislation is very encouraging.

fgaba1949 08-15-2022 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna (Post 2126108)
I wish there was some evidence of your belief. I’ve concluded that I won’t see peaceful co-existence of Americans with differing political and social views. History shows that even the strongest societies have definite lifespans. I’m afraid the American democracy is moving towards the end of it’s life span.

Unfortunately America seems to be headed towards a system of governance that caused our forefathers to leave their homes and travel to the New World to form the democracy that has served us so well for going on 300 years. Where do Americans who wish to escape the current political conflict go? That’s a question with a very uncertain answer.
Sadly i agree with you..the problem is not so much with the one sided media..both republican and dem controlled but its with congress

I have been involved in the political world with the state department and became so disillusioned that i lasted but just 4 years

The only thing that will save the country in my mind is a total reform of Congress complete with term limits and the elimination of corporate donations to the politicians which they control to do their bidding .

Everything starts with our political leaders.....and that needs to be changed

Yes iam more republican then democrat but what i saw with the state department caused me to dislike both parties equally

Worldseries27 08-15-2022 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C. (Post 2126095)
To kill the beast, why not emulate our southern neighbors and take away the holy grail of presidential reelection campaigns
nuff said
And THAT is why Mexico is such a screwed up, violent, poverty stricken third world country.[/QUOTE]
SEE POST 25.
THANK YOU FOR MAKING MY POINT OF THOSE WHO EDIT AND SLANT THE INFORMATION TO ACHIEVE
THEIR AGENDAS.

MrFlorida 08-15-2022 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsgreen3 (Post 2126058)
We were never majority rules.
They why do they bother to count votes ?

Tvflguy 08-15-2022 09:15 AM
… interesting how the “no politics” can be interpreted by mods. Seems as though some P triggers a condemnation or bullpen or lifetime ban. But as in the case of this Thread…. Seems OK.

Not complaining as I do like the discussion and opinions as long as they are civil etc.

But I do tend to get confused regarding the “rules”. Just sayin’.

Worldseries27 08-15-2022 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrflorida (Post 2126143)
they why do they bother to count votes ?
he meant that we are a republic. In a democracy 7 jurors could out vote 5 and deprive you of your life and/ or liberty.
In a republic one juror can save you.

NewRealms 08-15-2022 09:38 AM
One thing is different this time - It's the availability of the Internet and alternative points of view. MSM is losing it's sway. The Internet and the indominable spirit of the American will pull us through. It may get darker before the light comes, but the light ALWAYS comes.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-15-2022 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2126061)
I agree. Not all of the eligible voters, vote.

Many countries have compulsory voting. I think America would benefit if we had it also; every eligible voter in America must vote in every election or have a good reason why not. It would go a long way toward restoring confidence in our system.
Every American citizen should -automatically- receive their voters' registration card on their 18th birthday. They would be registered as "unaffiliated" until they opt-in to change it to one party or another, if they so choose.

No one should have to jump through hoops to register to vote. It should be part of the process of this country's elections that you are, by virtue of being an American citizen, registered on the first day you are eligible (in the USA, your 18th birthday).

Bellavita 08-15-2022 09:50 AM
Buddha says
Three things not easily hidden
The sun
The moon
And the truth


Buddha wasn’t here when people don’t believe the truth


Quote:
Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 2125808)
TRUTH will survive lies, (Dragnet, Jack Webb quote, "Give me the facts, ONLY the facts)
Americans will meet in the middle and extremes will be a thing of the past.
I love our country and hope we will survive this bump in the road.
Tone down rhetoric, research all sources.

Taltarzac725 08-15-2022 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellavita (Post 2126155)
Buddha says
Three things not easily hidden
The sun
The moon
And the truth


Buddha wasn’t here when people don’t believe the truth

Probably because the spotlights on it now have prisms.

jimbomaybe 08-15-2022 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2126153)
Every American citizen should -automatically- receive their voters' registration card on their 18th birthday. They would be registered as "unaffiliated" until they opt-in to change it to one party or another, if they so choose.

No one should have to jump through hoops to register to vote. It should be part of the process of this country's elections that you are, by virtue of being an American citizen, registered on the first day you are eligible (in the USA, your 18th birthday).
And how do you insure that the person on the registration card is the person who wants to vote, that the person has only one "card" that they will not walk down the street and vote again? honor system?

chet2020 08-15-2022 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cafesalsa1@yahoo.com (Post 2126016)
We need to protect the republic which protects the minority as opposed to democracy which can become mob rule
I'm going to side with democracy, thank you.

jimbomaybe 08-15-2022 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 2126169)
I'm going to side with democracy, thank you.
Some would say a mob is your basic grass roots democracy

Stu from NYC 08-15-2022 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fgaba1949 (Post 2126139)
of course i agree and it makes total sense

but we have lost the members of congress to represent us to this most obvious need for reform

So does anyone on here actually believe that OUR congress will ever pass term limits ? No way

THEY control us we do not control THEM
Sad but for quite some time Congress stopped working for us but works for special interests who make them rich.

We do need term limits as well as public financing of elections limiting what they can spend and how long campaigns can run.

Idiotic to have two year presidential campaigns. Didnt have them 200 years ago when there was no mass communications.

Taltarzac725 08-15-2022 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2126170)
Some would say a mob is your basic grass roots democracy
Mobs are easily swayed by con men and women. That has been happening since Greece and Rome. Mob rule - Wikipedia

Love2Swim 08-15-2022 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 2125808)
TRUTH will survive lies, (Dragnet, Jack Webb quote, "Give me the facts, ONLY the facts)
Americans will meet in the middle and extremes will be a thing of the past.
I love our country and hope we will survive this bump in the road.
Tone down rhetoric, research all sources.
Good luck with that. People don't seem to have the skills to decide what is a good news source and what isn't. They choose the source and label it "believable" if it goes along with their thinking. That is why many people believe the fringe websites are spouting truth, when it is obvious that it is just one lie after another.

Love2Swim 08-15-2022 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2126153)
Every American citizen should -automatically- receive their voters' registration card on their 18th birthday. They would be registered as "unaffiliated" until they opt-in to change it to one party or another, if they so choose.

No one should have to jump through hoops to register to vote. It should be part of the process of this country's elections that you are, by virtue of being an American citizen, registered on the first day you are eligible (in the USA, your 18th birthday).
Agree. It is ridiculous that people have to jump through such incredible hoops to register to vote. And even more ridiculous that depending on what precinct you're in, and the political party in power, that they can make you wait in line for hours to vote. Anything to corrupt the voting process.

Love2Swim 08-15-2022 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2126165)
And how do you insure that the person on the registration card is the person who wants to vote, that the person has only one "card" that they will not walk down the street and vote again? honor system?
Voting would be computer monitored, and the voting cards would be updated every so often and feature a picture ID and fingerprint or some way of verifying it is the exact person. That way we'd hopefully avoid the situation that we had when a number of Villagers voted twice in the last election.

DonnaNi4os 08-15-2022 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2125817)
I agree with you, but I have little hope at this point. Many historians are pointing out how similar we are today to the 1930's and the pre-civilwar days. A lot of animosity and intentional attempts to destroy the US from within.

Any of the social media conspiracy spreaders (about a dozen or so) are simply in it for the money/clicks.
We cannot be naive enough to believe that all of this dissent comes from our fellow countrymen. I believe that there are outside influences that have directed much of the problems we see happening around us today. I pray that our eyes are open to the truths and that we can focus on our strengths and freedoms. Infiltration from foreign powers, I believe, have instigated some of our biggest problems that have us pitted against one another. United we must stand or surely we will fall. I love my country and believe that most Americans are proud to be from the USA. We can and will survive this time in our history. We must preserve our history and learn from our mistakes. If you are unhappy with your elected officials it is time to vote them out in fair elections. We cannot give up and we must not believe the propaganda that is being fed to us on a daily basis.

ThirdOfFive 08-15-2022 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2126165)
And how do you insure that the person on the registration card is the person who wants to vote, that the person has only one "card" that they will not walk down the street and vote again? honor system?
Take a lesson from Mexico.

Mexico's federal elections were a swamp. Totally untrustworthy. Then they implemented their current system. Every Mexican citizen legally eligible to vote MUST vote, or have a good reason why not. In federal elections when they go to the polls, they have a government-issued voter registration card that they must present, along with positive ID. The voter card is uniquely coded to the bearer and only the bearer. When he or she votes in a federal election the information on the card goes into the national system in real time, guaranteeing that the person to whom that card is registered has voted--once, and cannot vote again. It has turned Mexico's federal elections, once so riddled with corruption that no one trusted the results, into one of the most trusted around.

jimjamuser 08-15-2022 11:56 AM
The Presidency should be a 3 or 5 person committee instead of ONE person. That would prevent an IMPERIALISTIC Presidency in the future. The office of President in modern times has become too much like a KING.

jimjamuser 08-15-2022 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvflguy (Post 2125849)
IMO, no hope. THEY promote and desire the division. Even on issues where there may be compromise, they don’t in order to kept that divided issue alive.

Truly it’s sad. Sorry to be a Negative Commentary but I tend to be a Realist. And from my view, not very hopeful…. This is NOT a bump in the road. It’s pretty much a humongous hole.

We could be such a great country if it weren’t for the “Parties”. Oh, and definitely TERM LIMITS!!!
I am in TOTAL agreement about the term limits. As far as polarization goes, I am a LITTLE more optimistic. It seems that lately there has been a small trend toward compromise. The European countries often have multiple parties. Sweden, I believe has, or once had.......an "Eat the Rich" party. That seemed to show some merit !


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