[bob47]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

And your solution would be................?

Let's invent a time machine so we can let our founding fathers see what 21st. century weapons are like. And then we'll be able to ask them, without having to speculate, what they intended the 2nd. amendment to do.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by bob47

Let's invent a time machine so we can let our founding fathers see what 21st. century weapons are like. And then we'll be able to ask them, without having to speculate, what they intended the 2nd. amendment to do.

It seemed to be about well regulated militias which would have been state or smaller entity created forces that had arms to defend against other countries or maybe even states' well regulated militias. You would not find a cannon in homesteaders hands though.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It seemed to be about well regulated militias which would have been state or smaller entity created forces that had arms to defend against other countries or maybe even states' well regulated militias. You would not find a cannon in homesteaders hands though.

So the Supreme Court got it wrong?

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Fraugoofy

I think if we were trying to keep "the bad guys out" this is a start.

However, every shooter has been an inside job, in other words the shooters have been students. Typically students have more free access than visitors, who are required to enter through the front door and sign in and get a badge.

Each of the shooter students were already inside the building, ready and armed. This mean logically each and every day all incoming people would have to pass through one metal dector entrance. This will add time to a normal student day. Time well spent I might add.

I currently work in a juvenile detention center where I have students in my classroom that commit violent crimes...they truly think differently than we do.

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Well, you might think so, but you would be wrong. Let's look at some examples.

Columbine (Colorado) - The shooters were students, but they didn't show up at school until lunch time. A single point of entry with metal detectors and armed guards should have stopped them.

Sandy Hook (Connecticut) - Former student. The shooter had attended the school six years prior, but had since attended other schools, and was being home schooled when he did this shooting. At the school he was confronted by a locked door, but shot his way through an adjacent glass pane. No armed guards to stop him.

Parkland (Florida) - Former student, showed up at end of school day. Went in as others were about to come out. Armed police officer on scene failed to do his duty.

Access control means everyone from the Principal to the janitor, and all of the students. With access control and metal detectors there wouldn't be students "already inside the building, ready and armed."

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

It seemed to be about well regulated militias which would have been state or smaller entity created forces that had arms to defend against other countries or maybe even states' well regulated militias. You would not find a cannon in homesteaders hands though.

I have been a member of both the Organized Militia and the Unorganized Militia of Florida.

The 2017 Florida Statutes

Title XVII
MILITARY AFFAIRS AND RELATED MATTERS
Chapter 250
MILITARY AFFAIRS

250.02 Militia.—
(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

Incidentally, it is argued that at the time the Second Amendment was written, "well regulated" meant "well equipped."

[Fraugoofy]

I agree. All but Sandy Hook could pass as students... whether or not they were in school or came late or left early and returned, they were still age appropriate as students...

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, you might think so, but you would be wrong. Let's look at some examples.

Columbine (Colorado) - The shooters were students, but they didn't show up at school until lunch time. A single point of entry with metal detectors and armed guards should have stopped them.

Sandy Hook (Connecticut) - Former student. The shooter had attended the school six years prior, but had since attended other schools, and was being home schooled when he did this shooting. At the school he was confronted by a locked door, but shot his way through an adjacent glass pane. No armed guards to stop him.

Parkland (Florida) - Former student, showed up at end of school day. Went in as others were about to come out. Armed police officer on scene failed to do his duty.

Access control means everyone from the Principal to the janitor, and all of the students. With access control and metal detectors there wouldn't be students "already inside the building, ready and armed."

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[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

And your solution would be................?

Originally Posted by bob47

Let's invent a time machine so we can let our founding fathers see what 21st. century weapons are like. And then we'll be able to ask them, without having to speculate, what they intended the 2nd. amendment to do.

A flippant answer when you have nothing practical to suggest.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by bob47

Let's invent a time machine so we can let our founding fathers see what 21st. century weapons are like. And then we'll be able to ask them, without having to speculate, what they intended the 2nd. amendment to do.

You are absolutely correct, if only the FF's could see us now I have faith in their intelligence that they would have worded it such...so that we don't have the all but uncontrolled gun society that now exists.

Especially given that the FF's had no clue as to the size our STANDING military would become (we no longer depend on 'militia's')...and the weapons now available.

The problem started back in 1886 (and subsequent decisions)...when the Supreme Court got it wrong.

Presser v. Illinois - Wikipedia

However, the high court stated that there is a limit upon state restriction of firearms ownership, in that they may not disarm the people to such an extent that there is no remaining armed militia force for the general government to call upon:

They ignored the "well regulated militia" part and solely concentrated on the "shall not be infringed."

Sadly, a number of other decisions have done the exact same thing.

I don't believe there is a single answer, and admittedly it is a complex decision, but I feel strongly that the answer isn't...MORE guns.

And to even start a discussion, will take the NRA to quit trying to support firearm manufacturers by constantly screeching and trying to scare everyone by falsely stating...'THEY'RE trying to take all of your guns away.'

[Spikearoni]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

Well, you must admit that designating schools as "gun free zones" has not gotten the job done.

Your solution would be..........?

Simple hardening would not be as expensive as you contemplate. It could be simply locking all exterior doors of the school building, with alarm devices on the doors and closed circuit television on the doors. CCTV is commonplace in schools now. The doors already have locks on them.

The responsibility for hardening each school lies with the local school district. In Hillsborough County (Tampa) our high schools have had on duty law enforcement officers (School Resource Deputies) for decades. The Sheriff's Office is in the process of expanding this program to include middle and elementary schools with contracted security officers who have Florida certification as Law Enforcement Officers.

Like it or not, this is the future of school security. We will get accustomed to it, just as we got accustomed to long lines and taking off our shoes at airport security checkpoints.

The high school where I served as vice principal had three buildings on one campus to which students would traverse for various classes throughout the day. Each multi-floored building had several entry/exit points with eight class periods daily. During lunch breaks, students were allowed to leave the cafeteria and go out to the central courtyard which eased the crowding in the lunchroom and decreased the occurrence of problematic behavioral issues. I'm pretty sure that other schools have a similar setup making your proposal quite difficult to enact.

[Nucky]

Someone in a position of power up the food chain please take the bull by the horns and do something different. Just make progress. Don't talk about it too long do something. The entire population wants something to be done. These poor families.

[Fraugoofy]

Originally Posted by Nucky

Someone in a position of power up the food chain please take the bull by the horns and do something different. Just make progress. Don't talk about it too long do something. The entire population wants something to be done. These poor families.

Amen. Peace out...

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[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

I have been a member of both the Organized Militia and the Unorganized Militia of Florida.

The 2017 Florida Statutes

Title XVII
MILITARY AFFAIRS AND RELATED MATTERS
Chapter 250
MILITARY AFFAIRS

250.02 Militia.—
(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

Incidentally, it is argued that at the time the Second Amendment was written, "well regulated" meant "well equipped."

Well equipped with cannon probably as the use of cannon was a real equalizer for many of the battles at this time. Cavalry too. And then along came the repeating rifle. Benjamin Tyler Henry - Wikipedia

It looks like pretty much anyone is a member of the unorganized militia but probably very few Villagers.

[manaboutown]

As I understand it the student-shooter was 17, too young to purchase a gun in Texas.

Apparently, he stole the guns, I believe from his father. His prior behavior shows him to be a psycho.

I have not followed this closely as it is so appalling and disheartening... again.

These school shootings gotta be stopped somehow!

[ColdNoMore]

A little bit of good news...on such a tragic situation.


J.J. Watt to pay for funerals for Santa Fe shooting victims

Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt has reached out to Santa Fe High School — which sits just 36 miles southeast of Houston — and offered to pay for the funerals for the victims of Friday’s mass shooting that left at least 10 dead and another 10 injured, according to John McClain of the Houston Chronicle.

[ColdNoMore]

Big surprise.


NOT that it is an excuse for his horrendous actions...but it does need to be acknowledged.


Santa Fe High School student claims students and coaches '''emotionally bullied''' suspected shooter

A student who survived the Texas school shooting on Friday has spoken out about the accused gunman, saying that he was 'emotionally bullied' by his classmates and coaches.

And sadly...some never outgrow it.