[katezbox]

Where would the funds come from to enlarge airports to allow passengers to be studied? to enlarge roadways to avoid tie ups outside the airports? to hire the additional screeners to make all this work? and how will you ever sell the traveling public on the need to get to the airport 4-5 hours before their flights? Also, many flights within the US have connections - many in Israel do not.. how do you handle the vast number of travelers going from one airport to another and then to a third...

Our system is far from perfect - but all this talk of naked scans and inappropriate search and seizure is political posturing. Fox never brought this up during the Bush presidency, why now?

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Rich--My figures come from research today on various internet sites and I welcome correction if someone can produce better info. I post them only because I hear so often that we should adopt the Israeli system without any reference to the costs. I believe that is what the past several national administrations have done with such devestating consequences for our children and grandchildren. I am concerned about the relinquishment of freedoms, but I also believe that freedom from violence is a worthy objective that may in some cases trump others. BTW my son is an international airline pilot; my daughter a retired flight attendant; my daughter in law , a retired flight attendant; my son in law, a retired marine pilot and I am a private pilot. They have described to me many times procedures and shortcomings in secutiry well beyond those that you have mentioned here.

Pilots and crew go through essentially the same security checks as passengers( as if it matters, remember the Egyptian Pilot sucicide crash off LI) and a wrong comment to a TSA inspector can result in severe disciplinary procedures against them.Clearly there are some procedures that need revisitation and I am hopeful that discussions and debates such as ours will result in a better process. Do you think that they are listening?

To start from the beginning; Lawmakers in New Hampshire have written a bill to outlaw the procedures, a bi-partisan group of 18 lawmakers from Texas, backed by the liberal ALCU, have written a bill to ban the procedures and N.J. also has or had a bill written by lawmakers to ban these procedures which many feel is contrary to the intent of the 4th Amendment.

So, yes, some are listening.

Having as much practical experience as you have you know that what I'm saying in this thread is not nonsense. There are ways to beat our reactionary system and if we know it, so do the terrorists. So the sense of security many on this forum feel is illusionary, and they gave up their rights and liberty for that false sense of security.

A good friend of mine who is related to an airline pilot told me this story. The pilot was going through security the morning of a flight. Because of stay-overs he carries silverware that the airline provides 1st class passengers with him for convenience. The TSA agent said he couldn't take the dull knife with a few ridges on board. The pilot explained that this is the knife that is already on the plane and given to passengers in 1st class. Needless to say it fell on deaf ears and the silverware in question was confiscated.

I feel so much safer now.

This is the same pilot that will be piloting this huge aircraft laden with fuel and who has a gun in the cockpit.

[EdV]

Richie, looking at your avatar/picture, if I were you I wouldn’t be pushing too hard for Israeli style racial profiling.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Richie, looking at your avatar/picture, if I were you I wouldn’t be pushing too hard for Israeli style racial profiling.

?????? Me, a nice boy of Italian descent with my big blue eyes, and my Buddy, Rusty?

I'll assume you're in a humorous mood and I'll remain in kind, but really, I don't get it.

[EdV]

Originally Posted by RichieLion

...Me, a nice boy of Italian descent with my big blue eyes.....

Well that would certainly help, but just to be on the safe side, don't get into the security line with a towel over your head.

[RichieLion]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Well that would certainly help, but just to be on the safe side, don't get into the security line with a towel over your head.

Still not funny, but OK. Also, you really don't understand the Israeli security procedures. Your take seems very shallow, but then, I'll assume you're still struggling for humor.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Our system is far from perfect - but all this talk of naked scans and inappropriate search and seizure is political posturing. Fox never brought this up during the Bush presidency, why now?

There is a good reason Fox as well as MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC never brought this up during the Bush presidency. It's because Bush was no longer president when the current contraversial security measures began. The full body scanners didn't begin being installed in airports until 2008 and the more aggressive attention getting body pat downs only began last year. I'm sure though that you just forgot all that and that the undeserved dig at Fox was unintentional!

[K9-Lovers]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

There is a good reason Fox as well as MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC never brought this up during the Bush presidency. It's because Bush was no longer president when the current contraversial security measures began. The full body scanners didn't begin being installed in airports until 2008 and the more aggressive attention getting body pat downs only began last year. I'm sure though that you just forgot all that and that the undeserved dig at Fox was unintentional!

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by K9-Lovers

Applaud all u want - but the first scanners went into service in 2007.

Even if they did begin in 2008, as you claim, do you think this was something that had no development time?

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Applaud all u want - but the first scanners went into service in 2007.

Even if they did begin in 2008, as you claim, do you think this was something that had no development time?

You are right about 2007 and I was wrong about 2008 regarding scanners.

The first scanner was installed on 5/15/07... in the NETHERLANDS. However, in the U.S. the scanners weren't installed in 2008... or 2007. According to the USA Today article at the following link, the U.S. installations began in 2010: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s-Boston_N.htm

Time sure flies when you're having fun!

K-9, resume your!

[K9-Lovers]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

K-9, resume your!

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

You are right about 2007 and I was wrong about 2008 regarding scanners.

The first scanner was installed on 5/15/07... in the NETHERLANDS. However, in the U.S. the scanners weren't installed in 2008... or 2007. According to the USA Today article at the following link, the U.S. installations began in 2010: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s-Boston_N.htm

Time sure flies when you're having fun!

K-9, resume your!

Sky Guy - thanks for the update. TSA's website says 2007. I should have checked an alternate source. However, read the last paragraph of your linked article. At the time the first 150 scanners purchased with the stimulus $, there were already 40 in place at 19 airports.

And the main opposers were the ACLU...I stand by politically motivated.

By the way - off to catch a flight in a couple of hours - I'll let you know if the pat down was good for me....

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Sky Guy - thanks for the update. TSA's website says 2007. I should have checked an alternate source. However, read the last paragraph of your linked article. At the time the first 150 scanners purchased with the stimulus $, there were already 40 in place at 19 airports.

And the main opposers were the ACLU...I stand by politically motivated.

By the way - off to catch a flight in a couple of hours - I'll let you know if the pat down was good for me....

You're welcome, and I can't disagree about "politically motivated" nor can I disagree with anything you stated prior to that statement! However, you did point out something that helps prove that my original point was correct, that being that Fox was wrongfully singled out. But that's not really a big deal since we should be used to that kind of thing happening to Fox by now.

The point that you made was the mentioning of the scanners being purchased with stimulus $. In addition, the middle of the USA Today article also supported my point by stating, "The new scanners have not been available since the Obama administration announced last February it would provide $1 billion for airport screening as part of its stimulus plan."

Perhaps the TSA information was correct but just presented in a manner that was a tad misleading. Gosh, as a government agency, the TSA wouldn't intentionally try and mislead us... would they? Would they? {silence}

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

You're welcome, and I can't disagree about "politically motivated" nor can I disagree with anything you stated prior to that statement! However, you did point out something that helps prove that my original point was correct, that being that Fox was wrongfully singled out. But that's not really a big deal since we should be used to that kind of thing happening to Fox by now.

The point that you made was the mentioning of the scanners being purchased with stimulus $. In addition, the middle of the USA Today article also supported my point by stating, "The new scanners have not been available since the Obama administration announced last February it would provide $1 billion for airport screening as part of its stimulus plan."

Perhaps the TSA information was correct but just presented in a manner that was a tad misleading. Gosh, as a government agency, the TSA wouldn't intentionally try and mislead us... would they? Would they? {silence}

You sure have gotten that right!

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by katezbox

You sure have gotten that right!

BTW, have a safe trip and a memorable pat down!