Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Cliff,

I can appreciate the problem from the perspective of the residents of this street. I guess what got my goat was the radical nature of the solution, basically setting up a verbotten zone for all but residents and their invited guests. The enforceability of this solution is daunting.

I guess I would have preferred a public information campaign first...with articles in the paper, perhaps advisory signs at the entrance to neighborhoods, asking nicely for "cut through" traffic to consider other routes to their destination. People of the Villages are by and large kind, thoughtful people. If such a gentle voluntary campaign would cut down on the volume by 20-30%, you'd all be much better off, enforceability would not be a problem, and there would not be the backlash we are hearing now.

Maybe the horse is out of the barn...but, just throwing these prohibited signs up without any advance warning or considering other less strident solutions seems a little heavy handed.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

"The I, me, my, people who say that they will disregard a lawful sign and continue to make life miserable for the people living on the street, are loading this thread with their selfish remarks."

No, not gonna buy that. If there are any "I, me, my people" involved in this situation, it is those vocal residents of the Oak Forest Drive area who have complained about the activities on that street and coerced a questionable government action. Oak Forest is not the only street accessed via this route. There are also about a dozen side streets and scores of homes that are being inconvenienced by the actions of their neighbors.

It's possible that original residents of this area thought that their new homes, across a obviously major thoroughfare from the polo fields, softball diamonds, and Saddle Brook rec center and between two executive golf courses and a major country club were going to remain in an isolated paradise. But somehow, I'll bet these same people were clamoring for the construction of shopping facilities closer than way up on 27/441.

No one wants changes that will make their home less appealing to themselves. When you have a lovely view, you don't want a house built in the way. However, unless you own the land involved or have a legal commitment regarding its use, you've no guarantees. Life's a :edit: . It's the same with this traffic situation. You can do various things to ameliorate the situation, but only within the rules of the community.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I so agree! :agree: :agree: :agree:

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

By the way, I just read F.S. 316.074 and I don't see anything in that statute that allows the residents to make this a closed or private street.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Does anyone know the legalities of "No Thru Traffic" signs? I've been told that they apply to commercial traffic, only, not to vehicles such as cars and golf carts. If this is the case, I would have no objection to it.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I willl not be using Oak Forest any more until the legal situation is solved.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Just a bit of history...

When I purchased in Polo Ridge off Southern Trace in 2002, the gates at both ends of Southern Trace were locked. One needed a gate pass to enter either end of the road.

The only way one without a pass could enter any part of Polo Ridge was at the Glenview manned gate and then onto Oak Forest Drive (OFD) to Southern Trace. My guests and any deliveries or hired hands had to take this route of going thru the Glenview manned gate and onto OFD. EVERYONE WITHOUT A GATE PASS.

I don't know how long you have lived on OFD, Cliff, but at that time when I moved into Polo Ridge, the traffic was pretty heavy on your road until they opened both ends of Southern Trace a few years later.

I imagine that people living on Southern Trace can also feel the effects of heavy traffic since it's a shortcut from Buena Vista to Rte 466 in the Southern Trace Plaza, as well as Buffalo Ridge shopping area. Opening both ends of Southern Trace had to have lightened the traffic on OFD since the gates were accessable to all.

If you expect preferential treatment regarding traffic, there are many other streets that can claim the very same. With all due respect, I really feel that there is no way one street, owned by the County, can expect to be closed to the public. Along with the fact that there are many homes in that area who hire trades people, and such who are traveling that road to get to their destination within the OFD area.

Just a neighbor's point of view.....barb

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Well, I'm one of the idiots. After suffering through all the supposed justifications by the selfish residents of Oak Forest Drive and deciding that this sign was morally wrong and potentially illegal, I happened to be in Polo Ridge today and actually entered the forbidden zone. I was as excited and filled with trepidation as the first time I drove thru a red light area. Wasn't near as much fun. Granted, it has been quite a while since I'd been there, but I could detect no Sword of Damocles hanging over the place. Road looked kinda empty. While in the area, however, I spoke with some friends who live on Woodbridge Dr. They're keeping a close eye on Oak Forest and plan the same thing if this one holds.

And of course Belvedere will follow as this is without doubt the busiest gate and the street most packed with speeding nonresidents in existence. Man the barricades! The barbarians are at the gates, or, in this case, driving down my street!

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Barb1191, I had been in Glenbrook for a couple of years when you moved into Polo Ridge. Polo Ridge was still in stages of development when our traffic problems on Oak Forest began. I don't recall the gates being locked so that a press of the button would not get a response. But, besides the point, you are absolutely right that The Villages did nothing whatsoever to cut the traffic being routed through OF in order to get to your neighborhood. The traffic problems here are, indeed, deep rooted. The people who should be getting the blame for this problem are The Villages and Sumter traffic engineers. They really goofed.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Boy Howdy YES. and they are responsible for my hot flashes too.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

No matter whether 'outsiders' are pro or con, the people on Oak Forest believe they have a legitimate complaint about through traffic and managed to convince the powers-that-be to bar it. Who am I to judge; I didn't even know where the street was!

But I keep coming back to my concern--and maybe this thread should be on the Villages Forum, not Non Villages. How many residents of how many DOZENS of streets in TV have the same legitimate complaint and, with this precedent, be vocal and forthright in taking it down the same path (no pun intended...) as the Oak Forest residents.

What will happen to our traffic in general?

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Here is a map which shows the location of Oak Forest Drive which is just to the west (left) of Buena Vista on this map http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Th...:::::f:EN:M:/e

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Collection6. You claim to read but you don't seem to be able to comprehend very well.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I suggest that a reduced speed limit and a sign for "No Truck Traffic" should suffice to solve the problems.

As for me, I can't wait to move to The Villages. It's been a long time since I've gotten the thrill of breaking the law. I'm looking forward to it if your "no thru traffic" signs stay put. ;D

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

1rnfl 1rnfl Mickey, you may find some here that wish to assist in your quest for lawlessness!!

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I've been trying to find references on the internet applicable to the "no thru traffic" or "no thru street" sign issue, with limited success. I did find, however, a published opinion in 2004 by then Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist that seems to address a similar situation for the City of Cape Coral. I will post the link, following this message. The bottom line is that the opinion suggests that the right of the public to access public streets is the right that prevails.

Link:

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Op...256E620055999C

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Caveat about these opinions. They are only advisory. They do have weight though.

"What is an Attorney General's Opinion?
Attorney General Opinions answer legal questions of a public nature that relate to a public official's duties.

In other words, an Attoney General's Opinion helps to interpret laws and guide state and local officials in applying the laws. An opinion is similiar to a legal precedent and stands until a court or later opinion overrules it or new legislation is enacted to change the statute in question. Opinions are not binding on a court, but are usually given careful consideration and respect.

The most appropriate questions for opinions are questions about inconsistent statutes or legal principles, confusion in the law itself, the constitutionality of a statute or rule, or legal disputes between two government entities." http://www.iowa.gov/government/ag/is..._opinions.html

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Signs put up for the purpose of controlling or governing traffic must meet certain requirements. When met the ruling body does their job and authorizes the placing of the sign.

That ends their responsibility. They do not assign nor assure enforcement.

For example, the sign on 472 (Rainey Trail) was posted with a 59,000 pound weight limit restriction, to keep the noise down as well as the wear and tear on this road. Would anybody like to guess how much 18 wheelers weigh? Moving vans? Cement trucks/loaded? Gravel and dirt dump trucks?

Doesn't faze em' one single bit.

Mission accomplished: signs up!!! Problem solved...you jest...eh!!!

As long as you get the right group together with an explicit enough presentation to the powers that be....you can get a sign. And maybe....MAYBE....it will work for the timid and staunch law abiding majority. As for the others, they will continue to do what they have always done, sign or no sign with no fear of enforcement. And even if enforced or even go so far as to be ticketed, the precedent of other streets, no signs, no enforcement, no tickets...the judge will throw it out.

Once again please be reminded we, as usual, are talking about trying to "manage" the less than 1% who are going to do what ever they want whether we like it or not.

BTK

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

So that everyone is aware, these new regulations, with the exception of the speed limit apply only to commercial vehicles. Any village resident can drive on these streets. Please do not be fooled by scare tactics.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Could you please provide the basis or authority for this statement?

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Although just an "advisory opinion," the Florida State Attorney General's written opinion I mentioned a few messages above (click on the link that I cited) seems to support Collection6. Although it doesn't make a distinction between commercial or residential traffic, it supports the rights of the public to travel on public streets.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Again, I posted a blog :dontknow: Did not read this on going one on Oak Forest Dr.

I too sympathize with residents of this street, but we bought in TV not Oak Forest! So live with it. Get police involved in ticketing speeder, do not change the street to no though way.

Again I agree if this happens then this will open a BIG CAN OF WORMS. ::)

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I read the FAG Opinion and I agree that it supports the right of the "public" to travel on public streets. Since it does not distinguish between commercial and residential traffic, I would argue that the "public" includes both residential and commercial traffic, i.e., it is inclusive not exclusive; also, the signs posted do not distinguish between residential and commercial traffic.

FWIW, one of the concerns expressed by Commissioner Mast is how can the county issue a ticket merely for the offense of driving on a "public" street.

My. $.02...

John

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I moved this over from another thread.


It is interesting how this has evolved.

I am amazed that a public road that has been maintained by the County with funds received from gas tax can now be closed to the public and turned into a private road. Does this mean that residents of Oak Forest Drive will now be responsible for maintenance and repair of their private road?

I wonder why similar steps haven't been taken to restrict through traffic from travel on Morse Blvd between the gate at CR 466 and the gate at North Morse near the Circle?

Unlike the rest of Morse Blvd south of CR 466, this road was originally planned and built to just handle traffic into residential villages. Since development was started and completed south of CR 466, it has become a main north-south artery carrying far more traffic than it was built for, not to mention the problem residents have to deal with every year, when Winter residents return. Then folks must wait for extended periods to enter and exit residential streets. The "traffic problem" has been studied and restudied for years and last year the Board of County Commissioners had traffic lights installed at Morse-Rio Grande intersection replacing the three way stop signs that had been there for years. This "solution" has failed to solve the traffic problems during the peak winter months. Little by little, Morse Blvd in this area is breaking apart and with heavy rains resulting in more broken pavement and numerous pot holes.

The County Commissioners did another study and now they are looking at a range of possible solutions and the costs. One Commissioner's "solution" calls for dropping speed limit to 20 MPH and merging all traffic (autos, trucks, golf course mowers, bicycles and golf carts) into a single lane of traffic. The explanation given by this Commissioner, is that this reduced speed limit will discourage folks from driving on this route. Surprised me that this same Commissioner didn't think to allow the road to completely break apart, leave the pot holes unfilled and become a dirt road once again, that would really discourage folks.

Now it seems that all that is necessary, is to post a No Through Traffic Sign at each end of Morse with a smaller fine and points assessed supplemental sign, for violating the traffic device (sign) This would solve the problem in no time at all, at a very small cost.

The fines raised from violators would probably be enough to keep the Sheriff's Dept. funded without any need to reduce expenses.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Back to my now obviously very real concern about this issue opening a can of worms because of its effect on the rest of TV, even with the Oak Forest residents feeling they have a legitimate enough complaint that they were able to convince the powers-that-be to put up the signs....

I read yesterday about the BOCC meeting tonight. If enough residents show up there (unfortunately we're up north at the moment, which is why I asked if someone could post the outcomes of the meeting) with similar issues about their particular streets in TV, that might be enough incentive for the commissioners to revisit the issue.

Look at how many threads are on two forums about this issue, how many people have posted on these threads, and how much research people have been willing to do because it's perceived as important enough!

Thanks to all, and Tal, thanks for the map!

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Commissioners Mast and Gilpin have indicated an interest in revisiting the issue. I do not know how the other 3 feel, but only 1 more is needed for a majority...

John

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

From Commissioner Gilpin this morning:

" I will be making a motion to remove the signs at tonight’s BOCC meeting at 5:00pm Colony Cottage Rec. Center. Please attend if you have time "


FYI...

John

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Deputies do not have the authority to check and issue summons based on where you reside. These are public streets. They can, and should issue speeding tickets. Obviously, Cliff likes to try and rile up people. Villagers, use your commom sense, you may legally drive on any public street in the villages. You should drive safely and at the legal speed limit on all streets, not just on Cliffs street!

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I agree with you, but why risk a ticket and having to argue the point before a judge when the signs can come down eliminating the issue:

From Commissioner Gilpinthis morning:

"I will be making a motion to remove the signs at tonight’s BOCC meeting at 5:00pm Colony Cottage Rec. Center. Please attend if you have time..."


John

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Good to hear JohnM. :agree:

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Cliff, there's been a lot of concern about the implications of the residents (of which I can only assume you are one) of Oak Forest having been able to interest the county commissioners in making the street essentially private. There has been much research on the subject, and much information shared through the threads. I myself conceded that evidently the residents do feel they have a legitimate gripe and who are the rest of us to judge. My real concern has to do with the precedent of making one street out of HUNDREDS in TV into a more or less private road.

HOWEVER, I have read all the threads about this issue, and while I have seen lots of observations made and information shared, I have not seen an offensive and insulting comment until your last post. I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to your opinions on the issue, or that you should not be unhappy with those who disagree with you and with this decision. But you demean yourself and your position, and you lose credibility, by describing those who disagree as "1% with loud mouths and very little brains."

IMHO....

[tony removed that post.]

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

I agree with Mr. Lanier. Up until the most recent reply by Cliff, I felt that most of the posts here were well thought out and respectful. We can have vastly differing opinions without the need to descend to insults.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Two wrongs do not make a right but collection6 did accuse cliff of 'trying to rile things up". Unfortunately cliff rose to the bait and hit back.
Sidney Lanier is correct in his observation.
So, before this thread hits the slippery slope, lets all agree to disagree but respect others' opinions.
This is the most civil forum I have ever been a part of. (Isn't there a rule about ending a sentence with a preposition?) I sincerely hope it stays that way.

DC

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Up until today this has been a general discussion between opposing points of view but now the originator of this discussion has chosen to get vicious in both his language and insults. Perhaps the moderator should ask him to not post anything if he can't control his temper and language.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

downeaster: In really formal English it's considered incorrect to end a sentence a preposition with.

'-)

However, it is so common in everyday usage that it's reached the point that "This is the most civil forum I have ever been a part of" is not only considered correct, but it would certainly sound awkward to have said "This is the most civil forum of which I have ever been a part." Agreed?

(Sorry Topicop, just answering downeaster's question....)

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

According to today's Daily Sun, last evening's county commissioners' meeting was attended by more than 300 residents. Among other things, they unanimously decided to reverse their position on the signs on Oak Forest Drive. That is, they are coming down.

Wonder if the postings herein had any influence on their decision? ;)

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

What section is this in? I looked for it in today's Villages Daily Sun but did not see it?

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

Hi Taltarzac,

It's in section A page A6, under the heading "Fire billing triggers discussion." It is within that article at the part that says "in other matters." They make it sound like the signage issue was the impetus for the 300 plus attendees.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

It was buried as a seond bullet under the Fire billing issue.

Re: New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive
 

ed

With the situation now resolved, I will be using Oak Forest with my golf cart and Buena Vista with my auto.
Done deal, no more comments on the subject from me.