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-   -   New Variable Speed A/C units. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/new-variable-speed-c-units-359085/)

ithos 06-01-2025 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happydaz (Post 2435228)
Upgraded 2 years ago to a Carrier variable speed heat pump. I went from a one speed (100% or off. They call this a two speed unit, but one of the speeds is OFF!) to a 75 speed heat pump. (25% to 100% in 1% increments) The new unit qualified for a $2000 tax credit. We are saving between $30-$35 a month in electricity. On a purely monetary method it would be many years to pay off the difference in the purchase cost between the two units, but it is much, much quieter. The prior unit was outside our bedroom and we would hear it bang and boom all night. The new one we can’t hear most of the time. Since it can operate at lower speeds it is not just quieter but is also much more efficient in dehumidifying the house. The fact that it can operate at such low speeds means it also is quietly running for longer time intervals. This doesn’t add to the electricity cost as I’ve already said it saves us money each month. Since it runs longer the air temperature is more even throughout the house whether it is cooling or heating. No more hot or cold spots. My wife’s sewing room is no longer hot and our glassed in lanai stays near the house temperature. (Sliders open) We rarely turn the mini split on anymore. As you can tell, we love our new unit. I did get a 15 year warranty with it. Let’s see I’ll be 91 when that runs out!

Soft starts significantly reduce the startup up noise and increases the lifespan of the compressor and adds another layer of protection to power surges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp1g8r8IVs&t=70s

retiredguy123 06-01-2025 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhoward (Post 2435878)
As I am sure you know, a heat pump runs most efficiently when it is running continuously. So a system would use step 20 on a cooler day and 60 on a warmer one. In both cases running the unit continuously.

It is amazing that your whole home never deviates more than 1 degree (F) from the thermostat set temperature. That is such a tiny number. You have only one thermostat so you must keep a thermometer in every room in order to know that. and you must really fine tune the dampers as the heat load differs from room to room. But I am just speculating. Regardless, congrats on having an incredible home. In my house the temperature in the corners of the house differs by more then 1 deg F from the temperature at the thermostat.

Personally, I am not sure how a variable speed heat pump is programmed. Apparently, you are saying that the run speed is based on the outside air temperature? If so, there must be other factors involved. Summers in The Villages seem to have consistently high temperatures in the 90's, so there is not that much deviation in outside temperature when you need cooling. I would also point out that, if you have temperature deviations throughout the house, a variable speed heat pump will not solve that problem. The heat pump can only try to satisfy one thermostat regardless of at which speed it is running. So, if your thermostat is set to 75 degrees, that is what you will get at the thermostat, regardless of whether you have a single speed or a variable speed heat pump. Also, regarding efficiency, I don't agree that running a heat pump continuously is the most efficient method in terms of electricity usage. It takes very little electricity to start a heat pump.

ithos 06-01-2025 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2435229)
My new carrier unit full of Chinese parts… probably like all rest of brands? So we just have to suffer for while…

Plenty of YT videos of how to replace a capacitor. Make sure it is American Made.

jrref 06-01-2025 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2435865)
People should understand that only about 5 percent of new units being sold today are variable speed, they are very expensive, more difficult to repair, and you will never recover the cost. If a variable speed unit would make my house more comfortable, I might buy one, but I don't think it would. Personally, I think that many people who buy these expensive units do so because a salesperson exaggerates the benefits. Do your own research.

Well that used to be the case. From my recent experience the other day the cost of the newer variable speed units such as the Carrier Infinity is only a couple thousand more than the basic single speed units after the instant rebates that carrier is currently offering and the $2,000 federal tax credit. So, a typical single stage 16 SEER system is costing approximately $9,000 and the 22 SEER Variable speed is costing me $13.5K in the 4 ton system. Smaller units will be cheaper. This includes 10 year parts and full labor and if the compressor fails in the 10 year period, Carrier gives you a whole new condensor unit vs repair. All in writing. Apparently Carrier is fairly confident in the longevity and failure of the system to offer the 10 year parts and labor so inexpensively. In addition, you are looking at a 15 or 16 SEER system and moving to a 21 or 22 SEER system with a significanty more efficient heat rating down to -13 meaning at 30-40 degree weather we have here the system will be still running at high efficiency compared to the heat pumps we have now that struggle at 30-40 degrees. So, you will be saving a significant amount on electricity. Not enough to pay for the whole system but if you can save at least $50/month over 10 years thats $6,000 so if you add the $6,000 to the basic unit and its the same or close enouth to the Variable speed system you will save enough in electricity to cover the increase in cost. Some people say they were saving $100/month but I'll have to see what I actually save. It doesn't matter how expensive these units may be to repair if you have the 10 year parts and labor. After 10 -15 years you will be planning on replacement anyway so you are covered. As far as getting more comfort? That's what they say should happen and some here have reported a more comfortable home environment with the variable speed vs the single stage units. I'll let you know how I feel about this but given the technology it should be better, for sure in humidity and air purification. What is happening right now, and I don't know how long it will continue is with the new freon, many are scared to change so they are repairing instead of replacing. Manufacturers want you to purchase the newer more efficient units so they are offering steeper rebates to bring the cost down closer to traditional systems in an effort to get you to purchase the more expensive system. From recent research on the new freon, systems did increase in cost about 5% from last year but the newer systems are slightly more efficient so you may make up some of most of that increase in energy savings. In addition, HVAC systems are planned to go up an additional 5% for the next couple of years for all kinds of reasons so if you are planning on replacing your system, now may be a good time given all the rebates and credits.

jrref 06-01-2025 01:36 PM

I also found if you are a Duke energy customer, not Seco, you get an additional $1,000 rebate when installing one of the Carrier Infinity systems. Seco doesn't seem to be offering rebates.

retiredguy123 06-01-2025 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrref (Post 2435903)
I also found if you are a Duke energy customer, not Seco, you get an additional $1,000 rebate when installing one of the Carrier Infinity systems. Seco doesn't seem to be offering rebates.

Are you saying that buying a variable speed HVAC system is the cheapest way to go over time? If so, I have to disagree.

jrref 06-01-2025 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2435906)
Are you saying that buying a variable speed HVAC system is the cheapest way to go over time? If so, I have to disagree.

What I'm saying is right now, with all the rebates and tax credits, if you take into account the energy savings even on the low end of $50/month over 10 years, the cost for a variable speed unit will be the same or close to the basic single stage units, enough to pay for the additional cost of a better unit meaning, better air purification, better humidity and temperature control and quiteness. When you go to the Carrier web site and look under tax credits, they are only for the Infinity and most of the high efficiency mini-split systems meaning there are some conditions on which units qualify for the federal tax credit. There may be other conditions for other manufacturers.

jimhoward 06-01-2025 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2435887)
Personally, I am not sure how a variable speed heat pump is programmed. Apparently, you are saying that the run speed is based on the outside air temperature? If so, there must be other factors involved. Summers in The Villages seem to have consistently high temperatures in the 90's, so there is not that much deviation in outside temperature when you need cooling. I would also point out that, if you have temperature deviations throughout the house, a variable speed heat pump will not solve that problem. The heat pump can only try to satisfy one thermostat regardless of at which speed it is running. So, if your thermostat is set to 75 degrees, that is what you will get at the thermostat, regardless of whether you have a single speed or a variable speed heat pump. Also, regarding efficiency, I don't agree that running a heat pump continuously is the most efficient method in terms of electricity usage. It takes very little electricity to start a heat pump.

You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

ithos 06-01-2025 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrref (Post 2435909)
What I'm saying is right now, with all the rebates and tax credits, if you take into account the energy savings even on the low end of $50/month over 10 years, the cost for a variable speed unit will be the same or close to the basic single stage units, enough to pay for the additional cost of a better unit meaning, better air purification, better humidity and temperature control and quiteness. When you go to the Carrier web site and look under tax credits, they are only for the Infinity and most of the high efficiency mini-split systems meaning there are some conditions on which units qualify for the federal tax credit. There may be other conditions for other manufacturers.

I agree that speed control is preferable for energy efficient humidity control. Fan speed slows for increase in dehumidification. Hopefully the new controllers are sophisticated enough so that reheat is rarely required. That being said, a very well insulated home will do ok on humidity with a single stage compressor.

Another advantage of a variable speed is that the motor will last much longer since it will no longer experience the thousands of across the line starts which results in large spikes in current flow every time it starts. Also on average the running current will be lower. Of course it will be on longer but net stress on the motor will be far less.

Downside is that there are more components to fail, primarily the variable speed controller but that will be much much easier to replace than a compressor.

jrref 06-01-2025 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhoward (Post 2435919)
You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

I copied this from one of the HVAC reviewers. Good high level explanation.

>>>>
How Does a Variable Capacity Heat Pump Work?
A variable capacity heat pump operates by adjusting its output to match the specific heating or cooling demands of your home. Instead of running at full blast or completely shutting off like traditional single-stage systems, it modulates its output. Think of it like the accelerator on your car: instead of just two options—full throttle or nothing—you can ease into the speed you want. This ability to adjust the heating or cooling capacity incrementally ensures the system runs more efficiently and keeps your home at a consistent, comfortable temperature.

Variable capacity heat pumps use advanced technology to continuously monitor the indoor temperature and the outside conditions. Based on this data, the system makes minute adjustments to maintain optimal performance. By running at lower speeds more frequently, it not only conserves energy but also reduces wear and tear on the system itself. This results in greater efficiency and a longer lifespan for your heat pump.

Are Variable Speed Heat Pumps Worth It?
In a word—yes. Variable speed heat pumps are absolutely worth it, especially if you’re looking for more than just basic temperature control. Here’s why:

Energy Efficiency – Because the system adjusts its speed and capacity, it uses less electricity than systems that cycle on and off all day. This can lead to significant energy savings on your utility bills.

Comfort – With a variable speed heat pump, you’ll experience fewer temperature swings. Instead of blasting cold or hot air intermittently, it maintains a steady, comfortable indoor environment.

Longevity – Since the system doesn't constantly cycle on and off, it undergoes less strain over time, which means fewer repairs and a longer operational life.

Quiet Operation – These systems tend to operate more quietly because they’re often running at lower speeds. The days of noisy HVAC systems kicking on and off are behind you.

So, if you value comfort, efficiency, and long-term savings, a variable speed heat pump is a sound investment.

What is Variable Capacity?
Variable capacity refers to a heat pump's ability to modulate its output based on the specific heating or cooling requirements at any given moment. Rather than running at a fixed capacity, a variable capacity heat pump adjusts to provide just the right amount of heating or cooling to meet your home’s needs.

In simple terms, if it’s a mild day, the heat pump will run at a lower capacity. On extremely cold or hot days, it can ramp up its output to keep your home comfortable. This flexibility makes it far more efficient compared to systems that run at full power regardless of the actual demand.

What is the Difference Between Variable Capacity and Variable Speed?
The terms variable capacity and variable speed are often used interchangeably, but they refer to slightly different aspects of the system’s operation.

Variable Speed refers to the compressor’s ability to adjust its speed. A variable speed compressor can run at different speeds based on the demand, rather than operating at just high or low settings.

Variable Capacity focuses on the system’s ability to adjust its overall output. It’s more about how much heating or cooling the system provides, rather than how fast it runs.

Both technologies work hand-in-hand, allowing the system to modulate its operation for maximum efficiency and comfort. In essence, variable speed controls how the system works, while variable capacity controls what the system provides.

Final Thoughts
A variable capacity heat pump isn't just a trend—it's a smart solution for homeowners who want more control, better efficiency, and improved comfort. When you pair this technology with the flexibility of variable speed, you get a system that works smarter, lasts longer, and keeps your home comfortable in any season. If you're considering upgrading your HVAC system, a variable speed heat pump might just be the game-changer you’re looking for.
<<<<<

JMintzer 06-01-2025 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbnick (Post 2435365)
You must be a distributor of variable speed systems

To whom are you responding?

JMintzer 06-01-2025 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2435846)
I really don't understand the hot and cold room situation. My thermostat never deviates more than one degree from the setting. It sounds like a thermostat issue, or maybe an insulation issue. A variable speed compressor still uses a thermostat to control when it comes on or off.

Do these people not understand that you can "fine tune" your air flow by partially closing some vents (in the cold rooms) and leaving the warmer rooms wide open?

ithos 06-01-2025 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhoward (Post 2435919)
You are getting into some fine detail here that I don't know for sure. I don't think the speed it set directly by outside air temperature, I think it is set indirectly by it according to demand. If the thermostat is asking for cooling constantly it will increase the speed. If it asks for cooling less because the house isn't heating up so fast, it will reduce the speed.

Yes, the set point at the thermostat is what you will get regardless of single, multistage or variable speed. Its only a matter of whether the control system is bang-bang (off/on) or proportional.

I think the premise behind multi-stage or variable speed unit is that they are indeed more efficient. To the extent that you are correct then there would be no advantage beyond the ability to zone more easily.

It is also beneficial for humidity control. On very humid days, the temperature may be at setpoint but the humidity may still be too high.
With single stage control the programming will bring on the heaters which will increase the compressor runtiime and raise your electric bill.
With variable speed it lowers the fan speed so that the air spends more time traveling through the cooling coils increasing the dehumidification rate. The heaters will probably never be used for dehumidification.

In other words:
Enhanced Dehumidification
When temperatures are at their highest outside, once your home is comfortable, it is more energy efficient for the HVAC system to dehumidify the air rather than air conditioning it and decrease the temperature. A variable HVAC option removes up to 400% more moisture than a standard system. This means less cycling, longer run times, and optimized compressor and blower speeds.

Why does variable speed air conditioning make sense?

retiredguy123 06-01-2025 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithos (Post 2435947)
It is also beneficial for humidity control. On very humid days, the temperature may be at setpoint but the humidity may still be too high.
With single stage control the programming will bring on the heaters which will increase the compressor runtiime and raise your electric bill.
With variable speed it lowers the fan speed so that the air spends more time traveling through the cooling coils increasing the dehumidification rate. The heaters will probably never be used for dehumidification.

In other words:
Enhanced Dehumidification
When temperatures are at their highest outside, once your home is comfortable, it is more energy efficient for the HVAC system to dehumidify the air rather than air conditioning it and decrease the temperature. A variable HVAC option removes up to 400% more moisture than a standard system. This means less cycling, longer run times, and optimized compressor and blower speeds.

Why does variable speed air conditioning make sense?

As I understand it, most units in The Villages do not have a reheat function for dehumidification. The only way to reduce the humidity is to use an optional thermostat setting that overcools the house (about 3 degrees below the temperature setting) when the humidity is too high. I never use this setting because I never really experience high humidity in the house, and I don't want to overcool the house. You are correct that, if the variable speed heat pump runs at a slower speed, it will reduce the humidity by running longer.

ithos 06-01-2025 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2435949)
As I understand it, most units in The Villages do not have a reheat function for dehumidification. The only way to reduce the humidity is to use an optional thermostat setting that overcools the house (about 3 degrees below the temperature setting) when the humidity is too high. I never use this setting because I never really experience high humidity in the house, and I don't want to overcool the house. You are correct that, if the variable speed heat pump runs at a slower speed, it will reduce the humidity by running longer.

I agree that most homes don't have dehumidification controls. In my home though sometimes the temperature is at setpoint and it still feels too humid so I lower the temperature setpoint. It is a minor inconvience that I can live with.

I believe that reducing the cooling effect of the compressor will not help humidity control. Reducing the fans speed is the method to increase dehumidification rate.
To Remove More Moisture, Lower Airflow Speed | ACHR News


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