[faithfulfrank]

Of course there is a political association to this tragedy based on the fact that at least three of the victims were in politics, and the shooter decided to make his mark going after a politician at a political event.

That is obvious.

What the original poster here asked is that this thread not turn political. The BLAME for this act should not turn political. Within moments after the event, people were doing just that, blaming other politicians, political parties, famous news celebrities, etc. THAT is shameful.

The simple fact is this. ONE person is responsible for this, and he is in custody.

As wrong as that is, we cannot stop healthy discourse in fear that someone will do something crazy.

Frank

To

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by billethkid

violence wise movies, violence on television, violence in game content could possibly contribute to the increasing violence in public life?

Does anybody think there would be any less violence if there were no guns??

Do you believe the lack of discipline in our society contributes to any thing goes behavior?

How about not saying anything against an individual or group to avoid involvement? Or persecution/law suit for discrimination?

If it is not obvious our society has become a breeding ground for violence. It has nothing to do with politics or guns or what some politician may have said.

Decaying core values and permissive pacifism....major contributors.

And oh by the way I again object to the notion of some that political is where the nasty misbehavior of the forum belongs. It is the usual denigration of a group by a minority opinion about another minority instance or instances.

Look in the mirror to see who it is that can have an effect on how our society behaves.


btk

I read this twice and still have no idea what you are trying to say.

[billethkid]

of the day contributes/allows/breeds/condones violence?

That guns or politics is not the issue!

btk

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by faithfulfrank

Of course there is a political association to this tragedy based on the fact that at least three of the victims were in politics, and the shooter decided to make his mark going after a politician at a political event.

That is obvious.

What the original poster here asked is that this thread not turn political. The BLAME for this act should not turn political. Within moments after the event, people were doing just that, blaming other politicians, political parties, famous news celebrities, etc. THAT is shameful.

The simple fact is this. ONE person is responsible for this, and he is in custody.

As wrong as that is, we cannot stop healthy discourse in fear that someone will do something crazy.

Frank

To

But isn't that what has been lost over the past 18 months?

[Jane52]

I'm tired hearing leftists on television blaming conservative politicians and celebrities for this psychopath's individual and reprehensible actions.

HE did it, and like every other person living in this free (so far) society, HE had a responsibility to respond to political rhetoric he didn't like in the same manner we are expected to responsibly respond to inflammatory or oppositional rhetoric:

TURN IT OFF! I'm conservative, and I routinely turn off people like Palin, Beck, etc. I get tired of hearing them nag about the same things over and over and I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. If we are supposed to start banning what they say that could stir up a psycho viewer, are we supposed to ban Jody Foster from appearing in movies because one psycho nurtured his derangement by watching her and shot Pres. Ronald Reagan to impress her?!?!?

I have yet to hear leftists in the media hold this sole perpetrator responsible for his own actions. This is where we are really in trouble as a nation. We are becoming a nation of ENABLERS, where criminal perpetrators, drug addicts, alcoholics, and fake claimants of public disability monies, and other self-destructing people are not held responsible for their own actions. Young people are taught that "pity" is the remedy, not self-responsibility. Gone are the days of parents like mine who told us all the time, "You made your bed.....now sleep in it." And we had to deal with the consequences ourselves. But that is a dead notion now for young people.

The psychobabble-speak of the last 20 years is coming home to roost.

God help us all.

[faithfulfrank]

Good post Jane.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by kb8tpw

The original poster asked that this not become political, but the TOTV crowd seems to have managed to followed the lead of the Pima County sheriff and done so. This leads me to doubt the usefullness and objectiveness of TOTV, in general. I have always acknowledged that many posts were the author's opinion, experience, or whatever in an effort to make Villagers, and newcomers in particular, more aware of whatever the subject may have been. I'd like to continue that, but a saturation point nears. I have never looked at or are not aware of content of the political forum (for a reason) , but if this has not become political then perhaps I need to be pursuing other avenues to dedicate my time to. God bless those that were affected by a senseless act. That should be the focus.

That sheriff.

He made me cringe.

I just do NOT see how political rhetoric has a place in discussing this awful event. Yes, she is a Congresswoman, but it is clear to me that this person, who I have NO feelings for, is sick. He was going to attempt to kill a bunch of people, and soon. He was obsessed with her for some reason. He is similar to the young man who killed so many at Virginia Tech.

I think somehow, we need to hope that Colleges can figure out a way to identify these people who are probably in the onset of Schizophrenia and then we as a country, or state, or city....need to figure out how to remove them safely from society before something like this happens. No small order.
Who decides and than where can they be held and treated? That in itself goes against a lot of people's values.

As I get older, the questions get harder.

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

That sheriff.

He made me cringe.

I just do NOT see how political rhetoric has a place in discussing this awful event. Yes, she is a Congresswoman, but it is clear to me that this person, who I have NO feelings for, is sick. He was going to attempt to kill a bunch of people, and soon. He was obsessed with her for some reason. He is similar to the young man who killed so many at Virginia Tech.

I think somehow, we need to hope that Colleges can figure out a way to identify these people who are probably in the onset of Schizophrenia and then we as a country, or state, or city....need to figure out how to remove them safely from society before something like this happens. No small order.
Who decides and than where can they be held and treated? That in itself goes against a lot of people's values.

As I get older, the questions get harder.

Gracie we already have the laws to hospitalize the mentally ill before they commit a crime like this. Usually you can go to the clerk of court or the county mental health officer and sign a request to have them evaluated. You need a second person to sign. The signature of a doctor does not have to have a second person. Police Officers frequently take people who they arrest for criminal offenses that are minor take them to the mental hospital instead of jail.
In this case the college in AZ called the police but he was never hospitalized. That is why I am calling for a mandatory reporting law that would require at least educators, medical personnel, social workers, and police to notify the sheriff of a mentally ill person so they could be evaluated. There should be complete immunity from lawsuit if the report is made in good faith.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by JimJoe

That is why I am calling for a mandatory reporting law that would require at least educators, medical personnel, social workers, and police to notify the sheriff of a mentally ill person so they could be evaluated. There should be complete immunity from lawsuit if the report is made in good faith.

The law should also provide for there to be some consequence for those educators, medical personnel, social workers or any other responsible persons where there is evidence that they did not report where they should have!

[JimJoe]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

The law should also provide for there to be some consequence for those educators, medical personnel, social workers or any other responsible persons where there is evidence that they did not report where they should have!

That is what a mandatory reporter laws. It requires certain government employees and medical personnel such as doctors, nurses, police, educators, etc to report suspected child abuse and some states include misdemeanor criminal penalties, fines, and employment sanctions for failure to report. We need the immunity statute to keep this from becoming a big new Tort lawsuit area which will screw it all up.
JJ

[Jane52]

"In this case the college in AZ called the police but he was never hospitalized. That is why I am calling for a mandatory reporting law that would require at least educators, medical personnel, social workers, and police to notify the sheriff of a mentally ill person so they could be evaluated."

So true.... and here, "Enter the feel-good psychologists" that the courts get advisement from . . . the psychologists whose goal is to protect the "self-esteem" and "privacy" of perpetrators...the same psychologists who say it is okay to release from prison child rapists and offenders like the one that tortured and killed little Jessica Lunsford.

I remember reading opinions of prison and mental institution psychologists opining on how treatment and "rehabilitation" goes with an animal like Couey who ADMITTED he could not control his heinous impulses. The feel-good psychologists described "therapy that works" in which they train the offender to "recognize their impulses building, and teach them to 'stop thinking those thoughts'". I could not make this stuff up. I read it in national newspapers. It makes me want to scream.

These are the psychologists who allow known, twisted minds to roam about in society. They are the same ones who will advise the courts on committing somebody like this AZ shooter before he goes on a killing spree.

And then we have those who will label you a "racist" if you report a person of color or minority ethnicity, for acting like the AZ or VA Tech shooter.

The person reporting such a ticking time bomb can easily be made the villain now, simply by calling them a "racist" or a "bigot" over and over in the media....just as that loose cannon sheriff in AZ has done by saying 'bigotry' and 'hate' speech caused these killings. He even labeled the population of Arizona as the "mecca of bigotry".

I think it's quite bigoted and dangerous to label millions of people as bigots for what ONE depraved mind did.

[billethkid]

loose cannons and some dangerous folks in our midst.
Good start Jane52.

btk

[jebartle]

Psychologists are there after the fact, the root of the evil has to begin at home and I'm sure future headlines will indicate this....I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule but it was disclosed that his home life was "odd" at best....We shall see...

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jane52

"In this case the college in AZ called the police but he was never hospitalized. That is why I am calling for a mandatory reporting law that would require at least educators, medical personnel, social workers, and police to notify the sheriff of a mentally ill person so they could be evaluated."

So true.... and here, "Enter the feel-good psychologists" that the courts get advisement from . . . the psychologists whose goal is to protect the "self-esteem" and "privacy" of perpetrators...the same psychologists who say it is okay to release from prison child rapists and offenders like the one that tortured and killed little Jessica Lunsford.

I remember reading opinions of prison and mental institution psychologists opining on how treatment and "rehabilitation" goes with an animal like Couey who ADMITTED he could not control his heinous impulses. The feel-good psychologists described "therapy that works" in which they train the offender to "recognize their impulses building, and teach them to 'stop thinking those thoughts'". I could not make this stuff up. I read it in national newspapers. It makes me want to scream.

These are the psychologists who allow known, twisted minds to roam about in society. They are the same ones who will advise the courts on committing somebody like this AZ shooter before he goes on a killing spree.

And then we have those who will label you a "racist" if you report a person of color or minority ethnicity, for acting like the AZ or VA Tech shooter.

The person reporting such a ticking time bomb can easily be made the villain now, simply by calling them a "racist" or a "bigot" over and over in the media....just as that loose cannon sheriff in AZ has done by saying 'bigotry' and 'hate' speech caused these killings. He even labeled the population of Arizona as the "mecca of bigotry".

I think it's quite bigoted and dangerous to label millions of people as bigots for what ONE depraved mind did.

Jane,

I agree it is wrong to label a whole group for the failure of a few. Psychology is a very misunderstood profession to be sure. When I was an educator I was able to find a few really helpful ones.

BUT.... It is becoming more and more an exact science as we can image the brain and understand more about how it functions and malfunctions. There are some very good people who are psychologists and some on this forum who have labored long and hard in that field. Not all psychologists are clinical psychologists and not all psychologists are as effective as often as people wish they were. Some are really out there, but that is true of every profession. If common sense could be packaged and sold, some people still wouldn't buy it.

[JimJoe]

My suggestions for mandatory reporting of mental health issues is to HELP these suffering people, not to harm them. They cannot help themselves.. they are ill. We need to stop being afraid and report them so they can be helped, and in the process, make it safer for everyone.