[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Good points all, but one shouldn't forget that while France owns the actual building...The Church is allowed to use it in perpetuity.

While I can't seem to find any proof/links, I think I'm on solid ground in suggesting that no other religions...are allowed to hold services/rituals in the cathedral.

Of which, to me anyway, at least negates to a degree the analogy of the WTC/Statue of Liberty/Washington Monument comparison.

Which is why one could legitimately argue either position...on who should have been paying for the maintenance all along.

I do like the idea though, that France 115 years ago decided to actually attempt to...fully separate church and state.

Although our laws technically forbid religious entities from directly & formally contributing money to politicians or Super-PAC's, one can't help but recognize the value/donation of having those behind the pulpit supporting specific candidates/issues (even when delivered 'in code')...while giving their 'sermons.'

Pass a larger/deeper donation plate?

Owned by France...used by Catholics (poke here)

I did poke where your comment said to "poke here" and I think there is a misprint on that "Church POP" page. It said:

"Please continue to pray for Notre Dame!"

I think they meant "Pay," not pray!"

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I did poke where your comment said to "poke here" and I think there is a misprint on that "Church POP" page. It said:

"Please continue to pray for Notre Dame!"

I think they meant "Pay," not pray!"

OK, I don't care who you are...that's pretty clever and funny.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Good points all, but one shouldn't forget that while France owns the actual building...The Church is allowed to use it in perpetuity.

While I can't seem to find any proof/links, I think I'm on solid ground in suggesting that no other religions...are allowed to hold services/rituals in the cathedral.

Of which, to me anyway, at least negates to a degree the analogy of the WTC/Statue of Liberty/Washington Monument comparison.

Which is why one could legitimately argue either position...on who should have been paying for the maintenance all along.

I do like the idea though, that France 115 years ago decided to actually attempt to...fully separate church and state.

Although our laws technically forbid religious entities from directly & formally contributing money to politicians or Super-PAC's, one can't help but recognize the value/donation of having those behind the pulpit supporting specific candidates/issues (even when delivered 'in code')...while giving their 'sermons.'

Pass a larger/deeper donation plate?

Owned by France...used by Catholics (poke here)

The church is somewhat responsible for day-to-day upkeep (many times falling to cultural organizations and religious groups) of all the churches, but all built before 1905 are owned by the State, and it is the State's responsibility to maintain/restore them. That doesn't mean that the State always can. As always, money is an issue. France would like to have monetary help from the Catholic church, but there are legal components confounding the issue. Basically they have been passing the buck back and forth.

There are many old churches in villages with big signs on them, saying (in French): Help us save our church. There are 32,000 churches and many chapels, many crumbling.

By French law, admission to a church cannot be charged (although some charges, like the one to go up into the towers of Notre Dame, can be levied). It leaves the buildings themselves between a rock and a hard place.

Still, if you ask Frenchmen what Notre Dame means to them, they will tell you it's a symbol of their country's history and architecture, moreso than a religious icon. As quoted in a WAPO article: France once did battle to defend Catholicism. Now it is home to one of the world’s largest populations of atheists. It is a country wrapped in its religious past yet proud of its commitment to secularism — or laïcité — in the present. (Sorry, a little off-topic, but the whole issue of laicité is interesting to me.)

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by CFrance

The church is somewhat responsible for day-to-day upkeep (many times falling to cultural organizations and religious groups) of all the churches, but all built before 1905 are owned by the State, and it is the State's responsibility to maintain/restore them. That doesn't mean that the State always can. As always, money is an issue. France would like to have monetary help from the Catholic church, but there are legal components confounding the issue. Basically they have been passing the buck back and forth.

There are many old churches in villages with big signs on them, saying (in French): Help us save our church. There are 32,000 churches and many chapels, many crumbling.

By French law, admission to a church cannot be charged (although some charges, like the one to go up into the towers of Notre Dame, can be levied). It leaves the buildings themselves between a rock and a hard place.

Still, if you ask Frenchmen what Notre Dame means to them, they will tell you it's a symbol of their country's history and architecture, moreso than a religious icon. As quoted in a WAPO article: France once did battle to defend Catholicism. Now it is home to one of the world’s largest populations of atheists. It is a country wrapped in its religious past yet proud of its commitment to secularism — or laïcité — in the present. (Sorry, a little off-topic, but the whole issue of laicité is interesting to me.)

"Laicité."

A new word for me that I had to look up...but far from a new concept.

One in which...I wholeheartedly embrace.

Thanks for increasing my knowledge...once again.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

"Laicité."

A new word for me that I had to look up...but far from a new concept.

One in which...I wholeheartedly embrace.

Thanks for increasing my knowledge...once again.

And back atcha. You always make me think. (So exhausting)

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by CFrance

And back atcha. You always make me think. (So exhausting)

Double ditto.

In fact...mebbe nap time for me?