[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Hello, Velvet,

I have never been to Paris, but my daughter said when she saw Notre Dame, she was suddenly brought to tears ....

Boomer

Dear Boomer,

I am beyond words, completely humbled. Thank you.

Velvet

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Cathedral fire: Notre Dame cathedral on fire in Paris

That is incredibly sad to see history up in flames, so to speak.

Watching fire on tv and looking at picture my mother sketched when 16 with pen and ink.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Attachment 79344

Watching fire on tv and looking at picture my mother sketched when 16 with pen and ink.

WOW, awesome talent...especially at 16!

Did she ever work professionally at it?

Much harder and infinitely more detailed, than the average amateur dabbler who paints flowers or nature scenes...that's for sure.

I can certainly see where she could have had commercial success.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Attachment 79344

Watching fire on tv and looking at picture my mother sketched when 16 with pen and ink.

Thanks for posting that. I did a lot of drawings at 16 and 17 but never got to Paris. At least, not yet. Drew a lot of veterans at the Veterans Hospital in Reno, NV when I volunteered every Saturday for a year or so in 1977-1978. I worked off of the photos of a quite talented photographer.

I minored in Religious Studies and I did take a course in Medieval Art which covered the Cathedral of Notre Dame among many other such structures.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

WOW, awesome talent...especially at 16!

Did she ever work professionally at it?

Much harder and infinitely more detailed, than the average amateur dabbler who paints flowers or nature scenes...that's for sure.

I can certainly see where she could have had commercial success.

Thank you Cold no more, never professionally, just dabbled. Very proud of her!

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Attachment 79344



Watching fire on tv and looking at picture my mother sketched when 16 with pen and ink.

Your mother's talent is exceptional. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Your mother's talent is exceptional. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Thanks for turning that. Makes it easier to see and Happy Easter.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Your mother's talent is exceptional. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Thanks chi-town. Sure was eeerie looking at mom's sketch on wall and watching it burn b4 my eyes

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Your mother's talent is exceptional. Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Btw, how did you turn, in my album it's right side up, when posting, on side, hmmmm!

[Chi-Town]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Btw, how did you turn, in my album it's right side up, when posting, on side, hmmmm!

Downloaded your sideways attachment, rotated it, and uploaded in my post. Easy fix.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[ColdNoMore]

An interesting and comprehensive opinion piece on the history, significance and future...of the Notre Dame Cathedral.


Notre Dame Cathedral Raises Questions About France’s National Identity – Rolling Stone

[JimJohnson]

I see over a billion dollars has been raised to rebuild the iconic church. Really, with all the ills of the world and a billion dollars for a golden calf.

Leviticus 26:1 You must not make idols for yourselves or set up a carved image or sacred pillar, or place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down to it. For I am the LORD your God.

[CFrance]

Ther

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

I see over a billion dollars has been raised to rebuild the iconic church. Really, with all the ills of the world and a billion dollars for a golden calf.

Leviticus 26:1 You must not make idols for yourselves or set up a carved image or sacred pillar, or place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down to it. For I am the LORD your God.

I don't want to get too far into France's politics--they have many of the same problems we do.

However, there has been formal separation of church and state since 1905, with all church building ownership going to the State. This is a national heritage issue, a structure with much history and beautiful artwork. I liken it to wanting to rebuild the World Trade Center or the Statue of Liberty, or the Washington Monument. Very few people are "bowing down" to the cathedral in terms of religion. It's a national symbol. Masses are said there, but it doesn't have a parish connected to it.

And yes, the big businesses over here are falling all over themselves to see who can donate the fastest and the most, at a level they don't do to fight poverty. I doubt the majority would be giving much money to the poor in order to fix social and financial inequality in France if they weren't giving it to fix Notre Dame.

It is, after all, their money and their choice, whether you agree with it or not. The first family to donate (€100m) declared they would not take a tax deduction for their donation, thereby leaving more tax euros in France's coffers. I've not read if any others have followed suit, but I hope they will.

Notre Dame should have been properly maintained all along. The church and the State each wanted the onus to be on the other. Little was done. The fire prevention scheme was inadequate, flawed, and based on miscalculations (of how quickly old timber will burn). Of the five parts of a normal fire prevention scheme for a building of this size and age, only one was in place. It was mostly about lack of funds.

Due to financial constraints, France's plan to completely restore Notre Dame was to take 30 years. The first part, €6.8m for the spire, was underway. At least now they have the money to do the whole job, and do it properly.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Ther

I don't want to get too far into France's politics--they have many of the same problems we do.

However, there has been formal separation of church and state since 1905, with all church building ownership going to the State. This is a national heritage issue, a structure with much history and beautiful artwork. I liken it to wanting to rebuild the World Trade Center or the Statue of Liberty, or the Washington Monument. Very few people are "bowing down" to the cathedral in terms of religion. It's a national symbol. Masses are said there, but it doesn't have a parish connected to it.

And yes, the big businesses over here are falling all over themselves to see who can donate the fastest and the most, at a level they don't do to fight poverty. I doubt the majority would be giving much money to the poor in order to fix social and financial inequality in France if they weren't giving it to fix Notre Dame.

It is, after all, their money and their choice, whether you agree with it or not. The first family to donate (€100m) declared they would not take a tax deduction for their donation, thereby leaving more tax euros in France's coffers. I've not read if any others have followed suit, but I hope they will.

Notre Dame should have been properly maintained all along. The church and the State each wanted the onus to be on the other. Little was done. The fire prevention scheme was inadequate, flawed, and based on miscalculations (of how quickly old timber will burn). Of the five parts of a normal fire prevention scheme for a building of this size and age, only one was in place. It was mostly about lack of funds.

Due to financial constraints, France's plan to completely restore Notre Dame was to take 30 years. The first part, €6.8m for the spire, was underway. At least now they have the money to do the whole job, and do it properly.

WOW! I stand in awe of this post. I am speechless. You have given an undeniable option to my concern about rebuilding a religious statue. I clearly see your point and salute your ability to change my mind. Given your explanation, I will donate to the
reconstruction myself. I assumed religious reasons and I demonstrated the fault in making assumptions.

Thank you for a great alternative opinion piece.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Ther

I don't want to get too far into France's politics--they have many of the same problems we do.

However, there has been formal separation of church and state since 1905, with all church building ownership going to the State. This is a national heritage issue, a structure with much history and beautiful artwork. I liken it to wanting to rebuild the World Trade Center or the Statue of Liberty, or the Washington Monument. Very few people are "bowing down" to the cathedral in terms of religion. It's a national symbol. Masses are said there, but it doesn't have a parish connected to it.

And yes, the big businesses over here are falling all over themselves to see who can donate the fastest and the most, at a level they don't do to fight poverty. I doubt the majority would be giving much money to the poor in order to fix social and financial inequality in France if they weren't giving it to fix Notre Dame.

It is, after all, their money and their choice, whether you agree with it or not. The first family to donate (€100m) declared they would not take a tax deduction for their donation, thereby leaving more tax euros in France's coffers. I've not read if any others have followed suit, but I hope they will.

Notre Dame should have been properly maintained all along. The church and the State each wanted the onus to be on the other. Little was done. The fire prevention scheme was inadequate, flawed, and based on miscalculations (of how quickly old timber will burn). Of the five parts of a normal fire prevention scheme for a building of this size and age, only one was in place. It was mostly about lack of funds.

Due to financial constraints, France's plan to completely restore Notre Dame was to take 30 years. The first part, €6.8m for the spire, was underway. At least now they have the money to do the whole job, and do it properly.

Good points all, but one shouldn't forget that while France owns the actual building...The Church is allowed to use it in perpetuity.

While I can't seem to find any proof/links, I think I'm on solid ground in suggesting that no other religions...are allowed to hold services/rituals in the cathedral.

Of which, to me anyway, at least negates to a degree the analogy of the WTC/Statue of Liberty/Washington Monument comparison.

Which is why one could legitimately argue either position...on who should have been paying for the maintenance all along.

I do like the idea though, that France 115 years ago decided to actually attempt to...fully separate church and state.

Although our laws technically forbid religious entities from directly & formally contributing money to politicians or Super-PAC's, one can't help but recognize the value/donation of having those behind the pulpit supporting specific candidates/issues (even when delivered 'in code')...while giving their 'sermons.'

Pass a larger/deeper donation plate?

Owned by France...used by Catholics (poke here)

“The government lets the Archdiocese of Paris use the building for free, and will continue to do so in perpetuity.

The Archdiocese of Paris is responsible for the upkeep of the church, as well as for paying employees.”