This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

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  #1  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:46 PM
Taltarzac
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Default This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...EjKCAD8UR0EKO0

This NIU killerStephen Kazmierczak was a homicidal maniac. As far as I know, taking medications of whatever type does not rob people of their free will. Therapy could have really helped him not end up doing something as horrible as this but I really cannot see how taking or not taking medication would have any bearing on this. Or, at least, not all that much.

The man was a monster and should be judged by his actions. This off his medications excuse just looks like another version of the Twinkie defense. Even if the "Twinkie defense" is an urban myth. http://www.snopes.com/legal/twinkie.asp
  #2  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

So sad and very disturbing..God rest their souls..
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

I am not sure how these kind of things can be prevented at public universities. There does not seem to be an easy or even extremely difficult solution.

I suppose you could put undercover (armed) marshalls on campus like they have on airlines? I would not trust arming many of the undergraduates I have been around at the number of campuses I have been on since 1976.

I also know that in some countries people who do not agree with the status quo might get labelled "mentally ill" by those in power and carted off to the gulag. Happened a lot in Nazi Germany as well as in Stalin's USSR and well as various other countries. Allegedly it happen in China not too long ago as well.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

I agree and it seems to be happening more often. We moved to Jonesboro AR after the killings here in one of the local schools. Because they were minors they were released last year. Of course one of them was caught with drugs and a gun during a traffic stop. The other kid with him was a child killer he met in prison and was released around the same. time.

At least the off his medication killer took his own life, too bad he didn't just take his and forget about shooting all the other people.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikark
I agree and it seems to be happening more often. We moved to Jonesboro AR after the killings here in one of the local schools. Because they were minors they were released last year. Of course one of them was caught with drugs and a gun during a traffic stop. The other kid with him was a child killer he met in prison and was released around the same. time.

At least the off his medication killer took his own life, too bad he didn't just take his and forget about shooting all the other people.
Yes, you would figure that if this person really were just mentally ill and not also homicidal they would just off themselves.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

For some people, medication does make the difference between being homicidal or not. The tragic thing is that many who quit their meds do so because they think they're better when the reality is that the meds are what made them better and what is keeping them on an even keel. So, I don't object to the term "off his medication." Maybe it will help another person on medication continue to take their meds no matter how "cured" they feel they are.

This was tragedy for all concerned. The students killed and injured. The young man who took his life after destroying the lives of others. The families and friends of all of them.

My prayers to each and every one.
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch
For some people, medication does make the difference between being homicidal or not. The tragic thing is that many who quit their meds do so because they think they're better when the reality is that the meds are what made them better and what is keeping them on an even keel. So, I don't object to the term "off his medication." Maybe it will help another person on medication continue to take their meds no matter how "cured" they feel they are.

This was tragedy for all concerned. The students killed and injured. The young man who took his life after destroying the lives of others. The families and friends of all of them.

My prayers to each and every one.
You really think that the NUI shooter would not have done this with or without his medication? I just do not see many medications as having that much of an impact unless it is accompanied with a good psychiatrist along with a supportive family structure.

If he had been hearing voices and believed that they were telling him what to do AND acted on those voices, well then maybe certain drugs would have helped stop this rampage.

If someone is hearing voices though, I never got why the person just could not tell them to shut up?
  #8  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Tal, I graduated with a degree in psychology. For some, quite honestly, they need medication and therapy plays a very small part, if any, in their "recovery" (although it doesn't hurt to understand more about your own mind and feelings). Most of the time, a combo of meds and therapy is needed -- especially for illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder. For some, medication is irrelevant and it is the therapy that makes a difference.

I'm not saying that this young man didn't need therapy. From the little that has been said, it sounds like he was one of those who truly needed both. We have no idea how much intervention occurred while he was younger. All we know is that he quit taking his meds and quit seeing his therapist. As I said, some quit their meds because they think they are "cured." They quit seeing their therapist for the same reason.

Psychotropic medications are dual-edged. They truly help most people with chemical imbalances. At the same time, if the correct drug or cocktail of drugs is not found, they can actually cause violent behavior. While much of medicine has easy treatments for a doctor to recommend (insulin for the diabetic; surgery for the gangrene body part; surgery, radiation, chemo for the specific cancer; etc.), the medical field of psychiatry is truly a "practice." What works for one person with a definite diagnosis does not work for the next. Maybe one day we'll have more answers. I hope it is sooner than later. These school tragedies are coming more and more frequently and cause so much heartbreak.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch
Tal, I graduated with a degree in psychology. For some, quite honestly, they need medication and therapy plays a very small part, if any, in their "recovery" (although it doesn't hurt to understand more about your own mind and feelings). Most of the time, a combo of meds and therapy is needed -- especially for illnesses such as depression or bipolar disorder. For some, medication is irrelevant and it is the therapy that makes a difference.

I'm not saying that this young man didn't need therapy. From the little that has been said, it sounds like he was one of those who truly needed both. We have no idea how much intervention occurred while he was younger. All we know is that he quit taking his meds and quit seeing his therapist. As I said, some quit their meds because they think they are "cured." They quit seeing their therapist for the same reason.

Psychotropic medications are dual-edged. They truly help most people with chemical imbalances. At the same time, if the correct drug or cocktail of drugs is not found, they can actually cause violent behavior. While much of medicine has easy treatments for a doctor to recommend (insulin for the diabetic; surgery for the gangrene body part; surgery, radiation, chemo for the specific cancer; etc.), the medical field of psychiatry is truly a "practice." What works for one person with a definite diagnosis does not work for the next. Maybe one day we'll have more answers. I hope it is sooner than later. These school tragedies are coming more and more frequently and cause so much heartbreak.
I do see psychiatry as an art too. There are many psychiatrists though who just seem like pill pushers more interested in their prescription pads than the patients in front of them. I read a book called Out of Its Mind: Psychiatry in Crisis: A Call for Reform . It was quite interesting and seemed to make some of the same points of psychiatrists better able to handle chemistry than actually deal with people.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Very few psychiatrists treat patients today. They dole out medications -- psychiatric medications have become so diverse, so toxic that it is all a psychiatrist can do to get the meds right. If you need an evaluation, your best bet is a neuropsychologist. For therapy, behavior modification, etc., you see a therapist, counselor or psychologist (yes, they're all different).
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2008, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch
Very few psychiatrists treat patients today. They dole out medications -- psychiatric medications have become so diverse, so toxic that it is all a psychiatrist can do to get the meds right. If you need an evaluation, your best bet is a neuropsychologist. For therapy, behavior modification, etc., you see a therapist, counselor or psychologist (yes, they're all different).
What is a "neuropsychologist"? Sounds like one of those words that contradicts itself. It seems to imply chemical tests made by a psychologist. A far cry from what does this picture remind you off or answering a battery of questions to get at various profiles of how other people in similiar situations answered these same questions.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

This type of doctor studies brain function.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livingston
This type of doctor studies brain function.
Did not think psychologists were MDs but may have a MA or even a Ph.D in psychology?
  #14  
Old 02-17-2008, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Psychiatrists can dispense prescriptions, psychologists cannot. A neuro-psychologist is mainly in academia.
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: This "off his medication" phrase really bugs me.

Neuropsychs are usually doctors with dual degrees in medicine (MD) and psychology (PhD). So, they check chemical, neurological and psychological issues to try to get a better understanding of the mental disease of some. They're especially helpful with children's diagnoses, which are extremele to diagnose because they symptoms change as the child ages (one of the reasons why it was used to be believed that children did not have bipolar -- the classic symptoms didn't show up until the child was older).
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