I know you mean well, and I know on the face of it that many who read this forum think I make too much of this, but Tal if you read this carefully, there are many evasive answers.

I hear the resounding silence by the Muslim communities in this country following the Boston Bombing. The only thing I heard consistently was the protest against anti-Muslim feeling, not the "we will not accept this kind of behavior" that I wanted to hear.

This is a picture of the Mosque near our home where we lived for the twenty years prior to moving here.

Poor Martin's Almanac: Can a Good Muslim be a Good American? (A Rebuttal)

Do some research Graciegirl. And I recall a lot of voices of many religions made against the Boston Bombers who were/are Chechen-Americans if I remember correctly. That is sort of attacking Christians for the Oklahoma City bombings which had next to nothing to do with religion.

Last night - after I posted that - my computer
 

had .gov.memories come in and not let me move about.
Do I still have freedom of religion?
If someone generalizes about my Christian religion and I feel it is wrong - why would I not say why it is wrong? Why attach my computer?
My GOD is of truth! One truth is for sure at this point they can not arrest you for sharing your religion - what ever it may be. Can you imagine the trial - "and you said you love the lord your GOD with all your heart"

Some Bible scripture came to mind - those who try to save there life are the ones who will lose their life.

What??????

WHY do you think those two brothers bombed the Marathon? What happened to the older brother in the year or so before he killed four people who were former friends and blew limbs off a lot of innocent people and killed a grandchild of a villager?

He didn't become a Christian extremist or a Jewish extremist or a Buddhist extremist.

The Boston Bombers were acting on hate generated from the war in Chechnya, Russia where they grew up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokha...erlan_Tsarnaev They did use their Muslim religion as an excuse to harm others as many have done through history. Just about every religion can cloak violence of some sort.

ISIS is a perversion of the Muslim/Islamic religion as a lot of leaders have pointed out. http://rt.com/news/190468-muslim-sch...islamic-state/

there are many words that can describe the gruesome deeds these folks who call themselves Muslims....who state why the need to kill Americans/Christians....however when all gets said and done the facts of the matter/incident are that a Muslim fanatic (professed or otherwise) has carried out their intent to kill Americans/Christians.

They are what they are.....fanatical Muslim terrorists intent on killing us.
No rationalization of their position or why or anythig else changes those facts.

That's true that these are fanatical Muslim terrorists BUT these men and women are acting with depraved minds brought about by whatever. They are basically criminals who use religion as a reason to kill. People should never judge an entire group of people on the actions of a murderous few.

And jihad probably to many US Muslim Americans in 2014 means something quite different from how it was used in the 600s. http://myjihad.org/about

my comments are always and only intended for the individual fanatical terroist at the moment.

A negative comment about Muslims in general; their lack of condeming or speaking out against those individuals or organizations that represent their religion with murder and mayhem. Where is the outrage among the so called majority of Muslims?

I posted a link to the outrage of a number of Muslim scholars to the actions of ISIS. You would find probably a huge number of more of these from Facebook sources. http://rt.com/news/190468-muslim-sch...islamic-state/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Musli...44672609121662

I had not heard of the news source that you linked above called RT.

It is a Russian news network.http://rt.com/

Further;About RT

RT is a global news channel broadcasting from Moscow and Washington studios. With a global reach of over 630 million people, or over 25% of all cable subscribers worldwide, RT news covers the major issues of our time for viewers wishing to question more. Our team of young news professionals has made RT the first news channel to break the 1 billion YouTube views benchmark.

Another article about Muslims standing against ISIS.

The ‘Islamic State’ and its brutal crimes betray Muslim world: Editorial | Toronto Star

http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.co...eviant-nature/

Do you really think the news for the USA on this RT should be - Police officer shot in Ferguson, two suspects at large? I think the big news for the world to see is the beheading of a person in the USA by a person of the muslim faith.

He was a prison convert to Islam. Probably not very long ago either. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/27/us/okl...ing/index.html

The first link above is written by an editorial writer..Not making me feel better.

The second one below, makes me feel a LOT better; Thank you Tal.


http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.co...eviant-nature/

Now please find me a similar American one.

TheReligionofPeace - About this Site

This site will not make us feel better, but it may make us more aware.

You keep pointing out isolated examples. While they are comforting, what is missing is an obvious groundswell of outrage from a LOT of presumably moderate Muslims. It simply has not happened yet ... and probably won't because most of them are afraid of the bloodthirsty types.

Tal, again I say I think you are who needs to do the research. I mentioned that in an earlier post.

Let's try it this way. If you take a random sample of 5,000 Muslims and 5,000 Christians, do you honestly think the probability of finding a genuine terrorist or terrorist sympathized is equal in both populations?

The answer is obviously no. The reason for this is also obvious in that one religion, in modern times especially, has shown a much higher propensity for violence. That is a fact that no amount of wishful thinking can trump.

But, for whatever reason, you don't want to admit that. Probably an emotional thing or proclivity towards being fair which is commendable, but in this case inaccurate. As an earlier poster said, this results in us not being able to finally call a duck for what it is ... a duck.

You make an excellent point. Conquest via the womb is actually an articulated long-term strategy of the Muslim Brotherhood, and part of their overall strategy to exploit the West’s liberal institutions from within to achieve victory … ie defined as a worldwide Caliphate. It’s a smart strategy too I might add because, as the saying goes, demography is destiny.

This is another reason why Muslim immigration needs to be legally curtailed or ideally eliminated as I argued in an earlier post. They do not assimilate by and large, and their faith is transnational. Thus, if we let large numbers of Muslim immigrants into the US, and they are producing many more babies as you correctly point out, we end up losing the country in 50-100 years. I don’t know what the exact math is, and while it’s not as bad as Europe, it’s a long time suicidal outcome for the USA as we all currently know it. Thus, the rational strategy on our part is to not let it happen.

It’s not complicated … it’s just takes courage to call a duck a duck, and then figure out what to do. But, there are many on this board and our country who, for whatever reason, simply refuse to call a duck a duck. I think a lot of it is fear, some of it is distaste for the country (ie not fair etc), and in other cases probably stems from a multicultural view of the world where all cultures are wonderful except the English-based Judeo-Christian culture called America we were all lucky enough to be born into.

We must all shout from the roof Jesus Christ is our KING
 

We are losing our freedoms because of fear! We are still a free country and we have a constitution that shows we are! There are millions of Christians in America and unless you start speaking what is true we will lose our freedoms! We are millions of Christians living in America! When you hear something that is against our WORD you must stand firm with the way, the TRUTH and the life!

Start Calling A Duck A Duck!

Depends on where you are taking the example from? If it is near a hot spot with respect to violence like Ukraine, for instance, the numbers would be high for supporting terrorism as long as your side is winning. This would be either Christian or Muslim.

If you mean Iowa, say Des Moines, they might be quite close.

A community like Minneapolis with a very large number of parents who come from war torn countries like Somalia, you would probably be right as these countries are primarily Muslim.

The fact is many of the wars going on in 2014 are in Muslim countries not because of that religion but because of strife over the control of natural resources like oil, water and other commodities. Both sides use religion in propaganda efforts.

The old idea of a holy war or jihad is invoked by leaders who are in these wars but this has very little to do with the practice of religion by Muslims in the United States. These people have condemned ISIS as say an American Christian would condemn the use of violence against abortion clinics. http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...and-compassion

I am curious about whether any of the posters on this thread so set against tolerance of Muslims in the United States have any friends who are Muslim? I had a good friend on Findlaw's message boards who lived among various Muslims in Indonesia. Indonesia has a very large population of Muslims but she as a Christian tried to be very tolerant of others religions even if she was scared about the separation of church and state because of the possibility of fanatics taking power. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-Muslims.html

Whenever fanatics take over a government there are problems with human rights being smashed such as with Mussolini's Italy, Stalin's USSR, Hitler's Nazi Germany, and a whole number of other power structures controlled by psychopaths. ISIS just looks like a state controlled by such a totalitarian group. They use the Muslim religion to twist people how they want.

Exactly what specific " data points / metrics " do you have to back up your position ? I think that it would be " instructive " for most of us . IE A " TEACHING MOMENT " FROM YOU TO " US " .

We are getting very far afield from the topic of this thread but this might help. Not exactly my views but this does cover oil and the history of wars over the past 75 years or so. Oil Wars|Greenpeace International

Let me try it this way … I’m going to ask you to answer a question and see if you will be good enough to respond.

As a generalization, and to keep things simple, do you think the proclivity towards violence, based on teachings of their respective faiths, is basically equivalent between Islam and Christianity?

That's just it. Religion is never simple.

I'm going to take that a nice way not to answer the question.

And, further, I'm going to guess that if you had answered it, you would have said "essentially no difference in proclivities towards violence between Islam and Christianity."

Greenpeace?

Actually by citing the source you did, you’ve told us what we really need to know about your core beliefs, and where you’re coming from with your worldview. Thanks for being honest about it.

That's also simplistic. I just pulled up what I had Googled. It was there for a little bit. My core beliefs are based on four degrees (including a Minor in Religious Studies) and fighting for victims' rights for 23 years at great expense to me and my family. Some of my allies in this fight have been religious groups which include mosques among other community resources for aid. Of course, the religious groups that might be of help to victims here in Florida would be very different from those in Syria, Iraq, Iran, or other places.

I wish people on TOTV would be a little fairer in how they treat others by not putting words in their mouths, setting up straw men, or putting false beliefs on them. I try to treat others with respect as the Golden Rule (a chief tenet of Christianity) propels us to do.

In the Villages, I would not see any more of a proclivity towards violence from a Christian Villager than from a Muslim Villager. In a war zone, I do not see either a Muslim nor a Christian nor a Jew turning the other cheek if there is a threat to the lives of their families and themselves.

Well, you may deem it simplistic, but I think it provides us significant insight. Again, I thank you for at least being honest about where you're coming from ... i.e., essentially no difference.

You argue your points well ... I just happen to think your world view is neither realistic nor helpful to our longer term security, multiple degrees notwithstanding. I imagine you think likewise of my world view. Hey, that's why this is a discussion board. It's not personal so lets just agree to disagree at this point.

You think I can see your world view in a few posts? Hardly. Nor, can you see mine.

I have said nothing about my politics towards the Middle East. There is definitely a quickness on the part of Muslims in the Middle East to go to violence to make points but we are not talking about that really but about some guy who beheaded a woman in Oklahoma who had converted to Islam in prison probably to survive in a gang culture where belonging to a group keeps you from being raped. Or, raped less. I did represent prisoners at the Minnesota Correctional Facility in Stillwater for 18 months or so as a Student Attorney at the University of Minnesota Law School.

People behave differently when their survival is on the line. Very few Americans can really comprehend that unless they have been in a combat zone. I have never been in a combat zone but did volunteer with Veterans of Foreign Wars Hospital for a year of weekends in 1977-1978 so I did get a first hand look at the long term effects of combat in people in their 90s but also much younger.

The very violent actions of Muslims like those in ISIS usually come from combat zones. I personally do not know what I would do when presented with such a situation. I doubt if few really do unless they have had extensive military training to deal with the fear, stress, and deprivations.

I'm still on the fence whether this character was part of an organized terrorist group or just loopy.

I don't think I know any Muslims, if I do they must be very moderate for me to not recognize it. If this OK incident is a terrorist act I think it was successful. Who would think that one person killing a co-worker would warrant this sort of attention (I'm sure it happens every day somewhere). Yet, we have people spending days speculating, googling up a storm and afraid. That is the terrorist's job, to inspire fear and once you let fear change you and let it run your life they have won.

I'm still leaning towards this man being very angry (possibly towards women in general), lacking control over his dismal life and lashing out at an available target. Just an common loser.

You paint a very sympathetic picture of the radicals and why they are.

With all due respect to you, I offer that millions, over the years, have faced a lot worse and not become vile killing animals. Of course the environment is a cause, but if fear, stress, and deprivations cause this, bless those over the years that have no succumbed to this and became a killer.

While I understand, I think, what you say, that is no excuse and therefore, to me, is not even a consideration. These people are not committing petty theft

Patty - I think it was the way the co-worker was killed that gets our attention. Your average Joe going postal at work doesn't behead their target.

Tal - we now know from a previous post your are an attorney - were you also a politician?

Your average Joe doesn't trim produce with a machete type knife. If he were a roofer he might have shot her with a nail gun.

If that facebook that was posted was really his I'd say he was a wannabe terrorist but in reality was nothing more than a powerless loser with women issues.

Alton Nolen had a tattoo of Jesus on his chest. He had just been fired and returned to his workplace and beheaded the woman. Is his tatoo significant and indicative of Christain behavior we should worry about?

What was his motivation for the beheading, to advance Islam in some particularly heinous way as ISIS Had done?

How can this not be seen as the reaction of a disturbed individual?

How has this become one of the "God Bless America" events?

Do I? Putting positions in my mouth I never spoke. What I AM saying is that people should not make over-generalizations about Muslims. Someone who has been in a war zone thinks and acts a bit differently than those who have not been under the threat of immediate death. I hardly condone the actions of ISIS. Where did I say anything remotely supporting extremists!!!!

Some of you people really play dirty! Like really below the belt Tyson style nasty.

I do not understand this mindset either. What does this action of some loser with women issues as Patti probably correctly surmised have anything to do with the stereotypical Muslim? Which many here are attacking along with me for trying to fight for education about what Muslims are actually like in various countries. What is wrong with knowledge, empathy and tolerance!

No I am a law librarian by training who has been fighting for more practical materials accessible in libraries of all kinds for survivors/victims of violent and other kinds of crimes since January 1991. Some of these might be Muslims, some might be WASPs, some might be African-Americans, etc.

I am NOT an attorney, nor a politician.

I do see a lot of hate directed at Muslims on TOTV. Very sad state of affairs.

What is sad is the persons family that are left after the beheading
 

Did the people not speak up in Germany because of fear? Millions of lives lost….why? How could this of been STOPPED! People think that if they stay politically correct it will put them in great standings with the powers that be?

Hatred, bigotry, and racism were the stock in trade of the Nazis along with being very politically correct within their membership. They took those who did not agree with them to the gas chambers. They probably supported all that with quotes from the Bible as well.

Fighting against racism and bigotry are not just politically correct they are also the Christian thing to do if you follow the Golden Rule.

Fired Oklahoma City nursing home worker threatened beheading, police say
 

Another case of work place violence.
This one thet stopped before he went off.

Fired Oklahoma City nursing home worker threatened beheading, police say | News OK