OK....AS an attorney you probably like to have structured discussions, as do I.

Thus, let me begin by quoting YOU...

"People behave differently when their survival is on the line. Very few Americans can really comprehend that unless they have been in a combat zone. I have never been in a combat zone but did volunteer with Veterans of Foreign Wars Hospital for a year of weekends in 1977-1978 so I did get a first hand look at the long term effects of combat in people in their 90s but also much younger.

The very violent actions of Muslims like those in ISIS usually come from combat zones. I personally do not know what I would do when presented with such a situation. I doubt if few really do unless they have had extensive military training to deal with the fear, stress, and deprivations."

Now that is exactly what YOU typed. To me, that sounds like you are making excuses for folks who have had those horrific experiences. To me, that sounded like, assuming you were discussing any anti Muslim feelings, a REASON for their actions.

I can find no reason and all I said was that other folks, many many many, have had the same experiences and NOT become violent.

Now, I did not put those words in your mouth, nor that position. Those are YOUR words taken from YOUR post. If I misread them, feel free to correct me and explain what I did misread.

I made NO generalizations about Muslims at any time in my post. I simply said that the reasons you cited are NO EXCUSE. NONE. Not for killing other people.

To me, when you offer an excuse for folks as you did, that is not exactly supporting terrorists...I agree. However, we are discussing cold blooded killers and I can find NO excuse, reason or whatever for that kind of behavior. I DID serve in a war zone and still feel this way.

Now, I really take offense to your comment about "playing dirty" and hope you will explain that. I am working with your comments only....and not sure what you mean by "you people". Of what group do you put me in ? That might also need a bit of an explanation.

Please reply. I do not "play dirty".....I am not part of a "people" organization...I simply tried to make a point that NO MATTER THE ENVIRONMENT, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. And that many others have been in the same environment.

To me, these people have no REASON, EXCUSE, JUSTIFICATION, DEFENSE for killing other people. To me it is that simple. Perhaps in your legal mind, you just automatically find some defense for any behavior. I, right or wrong, do not think that way when it comes to killing other people in an affirmative way. I added the affirmative way so it is not turned around on me about self defense, etc.

If you seek to kill other people in an agressive manner, there are no excuses. Especially considering the who and how in this case.

Do people grow up in a environment that is scary and frightening and conducive to bad behavior....yes, and many overcome and certainly would rather be killed for not killing than to kill.

I have seen hate on TOTV directed at Republicans.

I have seen hate on TOTV directed at those who believe in God.

I have seen hate on TOTV directed at blacks.

I have seen hate on TOTV directed at talking heads with political views.

I have seen hate on TOTV directed at networks because of their political stances on both sides.


I could go on and on, but hope you get my point. Do you speak out against that hate at all ???????

I see no HATE against muslims...I see FEAR about the Islamic faith and parts of its credo. I do not see HATE.

That is not exactly what I typed. You left out a few sentences.

What I was saying was that the fear many have is about actions by ISIS who are people for the most part in combat zones.

There have been many generalizations on this thread about all Muslims acting in such a manner as those who do atrocious things in war time settings. Some Muslim in the Villages is not acting or thinking along the same line as Muslim extremists who are in war zones. They are probably thinking about prayers, their kids and parents, work, their pets, shopping, football games, etc. and hardly contemplate the actions of ISIS in Syria unless they are reading the paper or looking at the TV set. I will bet that many of these Muslims are appalled by what is going on in the name of Muslims as committed by the fiends in ISIS.

What I had written was about the Middle East and Muslims in war zones --

Hmmm, did you all know that the Sheriff Nolen attacked in 2010 was a WOMAN? Did you know that members of his mosque describe him as "a little odd" (y'thunk?).

I'm still going with the lone loser.

Apparently some have not taken the time nor effort to review Mr. Nolens Facebook page! It definitely does not reflect a scared little prisoner acting out to appease a gang member! ITS RIGHT THERE IN BLACK, WHITE AND COLOR! IT LOOKS LIKE A DUCK, QUACKS LIKE A DUCK AND ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE CAN SEE THAT IT IS INDEED A DUCK!

Speaking of Facebook just try an experiment and look up some of the local Muslims pages and check out their "friends list"! So much for their "assimilation" with non-muslims!

why is it that we only hear from non Muslims defending or promoting Muslims and never from Muslims?

You really think some member of TOTV is going to admit to be a Muslim with all this racial and religious hatred shown here on TOTV on this and other threads against all Muslims for the actions of terrorists in Syria and elsewhere as well as from people who probably converted to being Muslim because they had very serious mental problems of some kind like this OK deranged murderer?

I am a Lutheran if any one is accusing me of being a Muslim.

I hope our leaders have better sense than this. They do have more sense. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...sing-god-video

My comments were not specific to TOTV but in general society

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2013/09/15...ind-out-here-/


Terrorist training camps in the US since the 1980's (at least 30 of them)

Tal I think you are losing a good number of us with your constant references to this mass hatred of all Muslims. That is not the case at all - we are referring to those "lone losers" "madmen" or whatever that are killing in the name of Allah.

Tal, I am sorry you are so upset and I am sorry that you can't see what is clear to me and many others.

I am a person who does not attend church on Sunday. I was born a Lutheran, became a Catholic in a personal journey at 18 when many young people question the existence of God.

I married a Catholic and have always felt a great affinity for the church but like many,have not agreed with birth control, and other tenets.

I am not in sync with very conservative or liberal Christians. I have lived as a child in communities with many Jews and Christians and for the last 20 years before moving here in a diverse community with many Muslims. We had a large and beautiful mosque in our suburb of Cincinnati. I have been there for discussion groups with a Catholic woman's group.

Our Meijer's store looked like a foreign country at times. I never had a negative interaction with anyone in my life because of their faith. No argument with neighbors or children or anyone because I just do not care what others believe as long as it isn't harming others.

I was terribly changed by 911 and by the Boston Bombings.

I am afraid of domestic terrorists who are extreme Muslims, far more than any other kind of faith. In today's world it seems to me that organized large groups of people who are religious do not commit suicide to kill others with whom they don't agree except for extreme Muslims.

I do not agree with the suppression of woman by any means and I am not a libber. I know that conservative Christians feel that the man is the head of the home but that isn't what I mean. I do not agree with stoning a woman because of infidelity, and I CERTAINLY do not think homosexual people should be killed.

I don't see why both sexes don't attend the Mosque to pray and HATE that millions and millions of Muslim women have had clitorectomies so that they can not have sexual pleasure. I know this because my next door neighbor in Cincinnati, a female physician born in India accompanied a team from Harvard to investigate this in Egypt.

I hate hatred for no good reason and disdain fear for no good reason and I don't like that even some of my good friends here on this forum think I am a bit of a fear monger.

And Tal I hope you know that I have always respected your intellect and your ideas and you.

I just think that I have a justifiable reason to be afraid and I am very grateful that you published the message from the Canadian Imam association. It makes me feel a little better.

But, I am still afraid.

There are many Muslims who speak out against extremists who commit crimes in the name of their God. These are probably some of the most strident voices. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...a37_story.html

I just posted true documentation of at least 30 terrorists camps in the US, what do you say about that Tal? When are people going to wake up and SEE the road that we are going on in this country?? If you don't believe me, just google it.

And our government does not know about these? Of course they do. It is the ISIS fighters and others who look just like some of us I worry about. And many of these are probably recent converts that look nothing like Muslim stereotypes.

I did Google this and these results date back to 2007 or much earlier when Bush was still in power as President. http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/sp...-north-america

This summation is excellent and not based on fear bias, etc but factual behavior. In Minnesota a few assimilate mostly doctors, etc. However even the moderate Somalia's for example refuse passengers in their cabs if they are carrying alcoholic off of plane or checkout clerks refuse to touch pork etc. In Belgium there is a major campaign called ShariaLaw4 Belgium . Like Minnesota many of the muslim in Belgium are recruited to fight with jihidist

Many countries in Europe are overwhelmed with radical or disenfranchised muslim . America is going to face the same problems and as demonstrated in Detroit it has begun. Race or religion aside far too many muslims are anarchist and will never want to assimilate here in America