It is becoming apparent that some folks believe that if you do not support tougher gun laws, that you are somehow not sensitive to the horror that occurred in CT.

THAT is extremely unfair...TOTALLY unfair....and I would hope the same exact logic will be allowed for anyone killed by someone in the State of Washington who is using what is now legal drugs !

"Florida will soon issue it's 1,000,000 concealed weapons permit. That means 1 in every 18 Floridian is probably carrying a gun legally. I believe that's one of the reasons we don't see events like this in florida."

The killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman was not a mass killing but still is drawing national scrutiny to Florida.

Since the case is yet to be adjudicated, I'd say it's due more to politics than anything else.

Who is saying that? Who, bucco? Let's keep the issues clear and not try to play the martyr. Gun safety issues need to be a PART of the dialogue, along with mental health and security issues. On the other side, I am tired of being shouted down by the NRA and told that I am not a defender of the contstitution on this issue. Everyone needs to shed their biases and think and work through the issues that may be controllable, recognizing that not all the issues are controllable.

While I do not understand how you say what you say about me playing a martyr, I suggest you read the comments that accompany folks who do not endorse any more regulation....hoping that they did not have any children killed or grandchildren or a reminder of the kind of bullet used.

NOBODY, for sure me..is touting the NRA.....my posts on this have been crystal clear.....there are no biases from me. If I have ever touted the NRA, I would love to have a copy of that post. A poster has followed a few folks who want no further legislation with comments that are pointed at "hoping that those posters did not have a grandchildren killed"

That is unfair...not sure why you feel so strongly about me...my posts have supported your position, but I do not like the guilt trip being laid on other folks....it is not fair !

Sorry if you find my posts offensive !! I find the kind of posting I referred to as very offensive and political

I do not and never have supported the NRA.....I made that clear....it is not an issue with me..fairness is

I can not imagine a more horrible event.

Yes, I am a gun owner. Politics aside, something needs to be done - but what?

As OldcoachED has stated, safety and mental competence are (obviously) important aspects when issuing a permit to a person.
As a former instructor, safety ALWAYS came first. Don't mean to put Figmo on the spot but I do believe he will agree with me.

However, does anyone REALLY think that criminals - repeat - CRIMINALS are going to obey more gun laws?

Do you really think that ALL guns could be collected and
destroyed - IMPOSSIBLE!

BTW - Almost every handgun you buy is NOT an automatic weapon - this is a misnomer. They are semi-automatic - you have to pull the trigger each time to shoot.

I confess that I do not have the answer.

A very bold statement that cannot be proven.

If one's grandchild was a victim of this unthinkable tragedy, I wonder just how thoughts on gun control might be affected?

Talking about how and what should be done when not directly impacted by tragedy may just change when someone we love suffers.

I didn't say I find your posts offensive, you are generally thoughtful and make good arguments, though I often disagree with them. I apologize if I misstated your intent. You are correct that it is unfair to imply that people that are against gun control are somehow in favor of these kinds of killings. I too am a crusader for fairness.

It doesn't matter what side of the isle I stand or what position I take. It seems as if the thread here is leaning very Political.
I thought that "political views and referances were banned" in Talk of the Villages.
Just saying.......

Great post!!!!

My concern is that politicians being politicians that they will take the easy way out and blame it on guns and ignore the fact that the guns in question did not belong to this unstable person but his mother, This was a family with money and intelligence and yet this young man was not contained. Perhaps his outrage was instantaneous? My guess their were signs.

We cannot address politics on this thread but one cannot ignore the global attempt to ban guns as a part of this discussion. To me such an attempt is not in the best interests of Americans for those reasons explained when passing the 2nd Amendment.

This gun issue is very emotional. I cannot and will not discuss it with my wife because if she had her way guns would have never been invited

Again state laws have to create better avenues for the treatment of people with neuro-brain disorders. The Mentaa Health System has to improve and funds have to be available. Ffinally society has to education itself that mental health issue should be looked at as any other disease because once you break through the stigma much can be accomplished

Finally I heard an expert on the news state that he went back in time and found that in 1922 several young children were killed in aschool, I forgot which state but guns were not used the man set off a bomb.

I'm a staunch conservative, but I heartily agree with a ban on assault weapons.

While the mental health issue must be addressed, it isn't going to be solved anytime soon. I am still not convinced that you need a gun with a reloadable clip that can kill 26 people in less than two minutes to feel you can protect your family...from WHAT? or to go hunting? We have to come up with a reasonable, I repeat reasonable, solution to what is on the market. I would really like to know why his mother bought all these guns.

IMHO, it's way too late for any ban on any or all guns to be effective. There are too many of them out there to control already. If sales were stopped in the US, our gracious NAFTA partners would send them across our borders.

That seems like a very realistic assessment. A ban though might get the assault rifles out of the hands of some people with evil intentions like the CT school shooter. He looks like someone who just had a very evil approach of showing his anger and rage at his mother and everything she loved. She would shoot these guns--hers--with him and taught him how to use the guns used in CT's elementary school massacre. Some people are just evil. There are very many men and woman in history who were not mentally ill just rotten to the core. Not sure how they got that way but it seemed that their evil thoughts and intentions were their own and not based on any messed up chemicals streaming through their brains.

It seems unfair to put the onus of this evil on people who are struggling with genuine mental illness problems who never harm anyone. There are millions of these people in the US. Do some research on the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. http://www.nami.org/

When the OK City bombing occured no one said lets ban box trucks, don't forget there was a pre-school in the federal building. After 9/11 no one said lets ban airplanes after all there were kids and 3,000 + people killed in a mass murder ! Why? Because most people could see the box truck and the airplanes were just tools used by deranged, mis-guided people to accomplish their goal. The minute guns become involved people seem to lose their ability to think clearly and instead of blaming the act on deranged, mis-guided people it becomes the fault of the gun and the gut reacation is to take away or limit the right to bear arms that have been paid for dearly by so many. Has anyone asked what would have happened if the killer didn't have a gun but was dead set on doing his deed? He could have used a bomb and killed everyone in the school or who knows he might of done nothing but, we shouldn't be so quick to give away our rights

The more details coming out, the worst it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbejN...ature=youtu.be
Today, 07:38 AM
Taltarzac725https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...ser_online.gif
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulliganhttps://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...s/viewpost.gif
IMHO, it's way too late for any ban on any or all guns to be effective. There are too many of them out there to control already. If sales were stopped in the US, our gracious NAFTA partners would send them across our borders.

That seems like a very realistic assessment. A ban though might get the assault rifles out of the hands of some people with evil intentions like the CT school shooter. He looks like someone who just had a very evil approach of showing his anger and rage at his mother and everything she loved. She would shoot these guns--hers--with him and taught him how to use the guns used in CT's elementary school massacre. Some people are just evil. There are very many men and woman in history who were not mentally ill just rotten to the core. Not sure how they got that way but it seemed that their evil thoughts and intentions were their own and not based on any messed up chemicals streaming through their brains.

It seems unfair to put the onus of this evil on people who are struggling with genuine mental illness problems who never harm anyone. There are millions of these people in the US. Do some research on the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. http://www.nami.org/

I tried to multiquote but couldn't capture all of the remarks I thought were wonderful...


When we all speak from our hearts, and are honest, we come up with wonderful, caring and insiteful, thought provoking posts like these.

As we age we become more insistent on our beliefs and that does not pave the way for compromise and finding answers. The people quoted above are admired by me for these statements.

And of course, I could be wrong and often am.

This is just a reminder, not directed at any specific individual post above....

This discussion is about a notable current event and, for the most part, the posts have stayed on track to the event and the related issues of weapons and mental health.

Any posts that stray into partisan politics or inflammatory name calling of other TOTV members or public officials, will be edited or deleted. If the discussion strays too far, the thread will be closed.

When a controversial topic can be discussed with civility and respect, we all benefit.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Guns not needed to kill
 

:cry:This is truly a tragedy that is becoming more common. The people doing the killing are in their 20's. Could this be because of watching all these shoot em up movies from the time their born until they are in the 20's? Could it be because we have taken God out of schools? Could it be that teachers and parents are forbidden to give a old fashioned "Ass beating"? There are many questions to be answered on "Why". Guns are not the issue. Look at the worst terrorist attack on our Country where our Country was brought to it's knees. This attack was made possible by box knives that can be bought at any hardware store. As a gun owner with dozens of firearms including assault rifles, I object to more gun control. I could never think about killing my mother. Killing a child would be unthinkable also but we have crazy unstable people among us. I carry a automatic pistol whenever I leave the TV because I was robbed at gunpoint myself. I honestly believe if one wants to kill many people, he/she will find a way. I would think if you went to a large sporting event with a full size pickup truck and drove into people at 60MPH, You could probably kill more people than were killed at that school. Do we then talk about banning large pickup trucks? I think we need to find out what is wrong with people that makes people want to kill. Enough said.----May God Bless the victims of this tragedy along with the family's and their community. :cry:

How is the need defined for this type weapon??

I believe that the thinking of the founders was that if the government is allowed to have a weapon then the citizens should be able to have the same weapon so that they can revolt against the government should the need arise.

I don't have an answer, but I know that spoons and forks didn't make me fat and that car manufacturers are not responsible for the millions that are killed in car accidents every year and the breweries and distillers are not responsible for people killed by drunk drivers or alcohol poisoning.

As has been stated, many of our ancestors shed their blood protecting the rights guaranteed by our constitution. ALL of rights are important and they all need to be protected. The issue is finding balance between protecting these rights and protecting the people. What we've been doing over the past fifty years does not seem to be working.

Well for one thing, more than a million American GIs have been professionally trained to use one. So when they return to civilian life, it’s a viable option for a home defense weapon.

And as for the alarming number of US homicides, keep in mind that there are roughly eighteen other countries that have more homicides per capita than the U.S. And the second deadliest country is Jamaica in spite of enacting strict gun controls and required licensing over 40 years ago.

Furthermore, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence website has Connecticut listed as one of the most restrictive gun control states.

And for the record, CNN is now reporting "Adam Lanza was found dead in a classroom, and police recovered three weapons from the scene: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, a source with knowledge of the investigation said." The Bushmaster is the civilian version of the M16 military standard issue rifle.

I am one who does not believe that weapons that would cause mass destruction be placed in the hands of evil/mentally unstable people as the general public does not need weapons of this type to defend themselves.

There are many facets to this terrible tradgedy:
1. Obviously, Adam Lanza was mentally unstable.
2. Mother was a gun affecianado.
3. Access to a m-16 type weapon.
4. 11 bullets in one child.

I'm sure the NRA will want to keep their guns as the constitution was written.

When this country was formed, the right to bear arms was a constitutional right. Somehow, in today's society, it seems to include guns that contain many bullets fired at a rapid rate. I think this is something that both the NRA and anti gun advocates need to rethink. If someone is evil or mentally unbalance, they will find a way to obtain these type of guns. In a perfect world, this would not have happened. With that being said, I think we should all work for a solution to ensure this type of tradgey won't happen again.

I would hope something good can come out of this senseless tradgedy,

If a madman wants to kill innocent people he will find a way......
Killers don't need guns to kill people.......
Timothy Mcveigh used fertilizer.......
9-11 terrorists used box cuters and planes......
The Nazis used cyanide gas.......
Taking guns from innocent people will not protect inocent people........
The problem is not guns........
It's a Godless society.........
We all pray and ask, why would God allow things like this to happen?
Well, if you just close your eyes and listen, God will say.......
"it might be because the Government said I'm not allowed in your schools anymore."
Let's all take a deep breath and reevaluate not just gun controll but controll of what our Government believes is best for all of us.
This not a political statement of any kind, I am a Vietnam wounded Veteran and retired NYC Police Officer who has seen his share of mans inhumanity to man.
God Bless this great Country.

Thoughfully written. You just can't get here soon enough for us.

Yes, to the right to have guns.............................just not those that are used to fight wars!

You are a good man!

Thank you.

This thread is about what has just happened and has happened many times before. There had been many mass killings recently in public places, especially schools. In every case it has been assault type weapons!!! This is a problem.
You can keep you guns but not assault weapons. My daughter hid under a desk at VT for over an hour. Her best friends were killed. We have cried many many tears and she still can not stand to hear a gun shot. You will never know the fear we felt as we prayed she would not be shot. We ran to a church and just prayed.
This happened years ago and nothing has changed and it still happening.
I own guns and have all my life but for hunting. Please don't do a smoke and mirror and on what just happened. Work with today's problem. I agree we are too great of a country to let our young to be gunned down and traumatised forever and ...do nothing! You have no idea what this is about until it happens to your most precious children or grandchildren.

It seems that most people posting on this thread wouldn't know an assault weapon from a bb gun. While some posters are definitely expert, most are not. We already have a ban on automatic weapons. An automatic rifle fires continuously when the trigger is squeezed. It will fire until the trigger is released, it runs out of ammo or the weapon malfunctions. These weapons are already banned. Assault weapons are semi-automatic weapons no more powerful than the non-assault weapons out there. This includes civilian versions of the M-16. When a semi-automatic weapon is fired one pull of the trigger fires one round. It's no more of a weapon of mass destruction than a hunting rifle, if fact some, if not most "assault weapons" are less powerful than a deer rifle.
All guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. Assault weapons are actually used in a very small percentage of crimes involving firearms. Banning assault weapons will do nothing to reduce gun related crime. I don't have an answer but think we should be doing a much better job of keeping weapons of any kind out of the hands of those who are mentally or emotionally unfit to use them. Something should be done but a ban of assault weapons isn't going to do it for us. It might make us feel like we've made progress and it might make some points for the politicians it will be an illusion.

I think I heard somewhere somehow in some state if you suffered a concussion you had to relinquish your drivers license until you were well . Now this is repeating something I think I remember. Well if you are being treated for a disorder that could cause harm to others, it should be made mandatory to report that by the person treating you, like health professionals and teachers have to report suspected child abuse.

Surely SOMETHING could be done without harming people simply being treated for things like depression or post partum disorder or OCD. It is a challenge to be sure. AND of course there would be the possibility of error and abuse of any such law.

Nothing is simple.

Ban Guns or Doctors
 

A study done by consumer advocate (Ralph Nader) found that DOCTORS kill over 200,000 people every year in the U.S.
Let me repeat that " Doctors KILL about 300,000 people every year in the U.S.""

Not one person has said "Lets ban doctors

Prescriptionrscription and over the counter drugs Kill about 80,000 people a year in the U.S.

Draw your own conclusions.

WOW...in the time it took you to type that post, the number of people killed by doctors increased by 100,000. That is a lot of people dead in a short amount of time.

We can work on banning doctors and prescriptions and over the counter drugs, but right now the main goal on everybody's mind is banning semi-automatic weapons and mega clips, and making sure all gun owners are licensed and pass a mental exam.

Good luck with that.

Maybe just maybe !
 

I was just making a point to those that say ,ban guns, and I do agree with you about better screening and licensing .
My daughter taught at that school as a student teacher awhile ago and the Principle that was killed lived near her, so I have a personal interest .
I lived in CT all my life.
I think the current talk has focused to much on guns instead of the victims.
I would be in favor of teachers going through training and carrying concealed weapons at work if they wanted to. I don't know how things would have turned out different if this were so; Just maybe some deaths might have been prevented if a teacher was able to try to protect them by shooting the attacker.

Not allowing mentally ill people to have guns makes sense. In this case, it was the mother..no history..who owned the four guns and a rifle.

Can you hunt deer with assault weapons? Seems like if you cant get the deer in three shots you need an assault weapon.

Perhaps, we need more education about guns as well as mental health issues.

While I was fighting for better access to information for victims/survivors of violent crimes through libraries during much of the 1990s and half way into the 2000s, I tried to link up as many public and law libraries to victim rights groups and resources. I was using approachs taught to me at the University of Denver School of Librarianship and Information Management from which I received a MA in 1984.

TOTVers should contact their public and other libraries nearby and ask them what kind of materials they have that would help other people manage mental illness in their families and in their communities as well as how to deal with the proper handling of guns and the like.

Maybe, if we all look out for another we can curb some of this violence commited by people with mental illnesses.

Also contact groups like NAMI and Victim Resource Providers to see what they might like to see in local public and other type libraries. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...-illness-9060/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...esources-8999/