[ColdNoMore]

"Blame everything/anything else, but don't even think of including ANY type of reasonable gun legislation...including making it harder for the mentally ill to get a hold of guns"

In fact, some leaders think that even certain mentally ill people...should have their 2nd Amendment upheld.

FACT CHECK: Did Trump Revoke Gun Background Checks for Mentally Ill People?

In February 2017, President Trump repealed an Obama-era regulation that would have made it easier to block the sale of firearms to people with certain mental illnesses

And yes, OF COURSE the issue is multi-faceted and will take numerous prongs of attack (poor phrasing?)...to address/fix the problem.

But trying to take a very important piece of the solution off of the table, before a serious discussion even starts...screams volumes of the real agenda by some.

"Hardening targets" seems to be one battle cry and thrown out as THE answer, but I've yet to hear how that can be accomplished in the morning when students arrive, after school when students leave...and many similar situations.

As I've stated previously, it's my opinion that a big part of this is to finally get serious on bullying...as this is a theme in all too many of these tragedies. Once upon a time, a person being bullied could at least usually get away from their tormentor for a while after school/on weekends, but with social media being so prevalent (and it's never going to be less than it is now)...it is now 24/7/365 bullying.

There's also a commonality to these scumbags...that so far I haven't seen talked about.

Here's a hint...


White Men Have Committed More Mass Shootings than Any Other Group

The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was shocking in its scale — but it wasn't a surprise that it was committed by a white male.

Statistics show that since 1982, the majority of mass shootings — 54 percent — were committed by white men, according to data from Mother Jones. Black people were the second largest perpetrators of mass shootings based on ethnic background, but only accounted for roughly 16 percent of the total incidents during the same time period.

The average age of the shooters was 35, however, making the perpetrator in Las Vegas, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, somewhat of an outlier. It is too early to say if mental illness played a role in Paddock's case, but it has in a number of mass shootings, though it is perhaps too frequently pointed to as the primary cause.

Other research suggests white men commit mass shootings out of a sense of entitlement.

And yes, the base statistic can be misleading when one takes into account the relative % of each demographic overall.

My point here however, is to point to the fact that the 'school shooters'...have almost completely been young white males.




And as proof of what I say...

This is an unspoken culprit of school shootings (opinion) - CNN

Are white males responsible for more mass shootings than any other group? | PunditFact


I encourage everyone to read each link I've provided...and make their own cogent comments on them.

[fishon]

I agree with CNM.
Can't we just have some common sense laws banning young white males?

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Well, on what gun laws could help...let's start with a really easy one.

Are bumpstocks illegal on a federal level yet?

Why not?

I think we all know why.

It's for the exact same reason that someone talked big about... "others are afraid of the NRA, but I'm not."

That is until they had a lunch date with the NRA...then nothing but crickets.

And how about we start holding those parents who have made easy access to guns...accountable also?

As for one of the big reasons regarding "why" it has become more prevalent.. that was addressed in the other thread also.

Santa Fe High School student claims students and coaches '''emotionally bullied''' suspected shooter



But since bullying is condoned, little action taken, loud voices saying "you just need to put your big boy pants on and take it, since it never harmed me" and actually perpetuated by our national leaders...fat chance that will work either.

Our father had guns and they were NOT locked up. We just knew that we had better not even think of touching them, much less take them out!

We played cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians with cap guns, etc. Sometimes you were the cop, sometimes the robber; sometimes you were the cowboy, sometimes the Indian. Even though I was a girl, PC had not come into being and that meant that I was the cowboy when it was my turn. We didn't have "cowgirls". There were NOT mass shootings then, either. We knew the difference in reality and make-believe. Every movie we saw was not blood and guts in true color, either. The bad guys died; big deal. IT WAS THE MOVIES!

We didn't raise ourselves and we had boundaries that had best not be crossed. We knew what those boundaries were and what the consequence was if we transgressed. It was definitely not "time out to think about it", either. We grew up to be nothing but respectful, polite, compassionate, and disciplined adults. Our psyche and self-esteem were not compromised; quite the opposite. We knew the meaning of the word "NO". I have a picture hanging in my laundry room that I gave my mother. It is of a mother hen and her little chicks. The signage says:

"I'm The Mommy That's Why"

Our parents knew who are friends were (and they were not them), their parents, where we went, what we did. We had a curfew; not a government imposed one, either. It was parent imposed. There was no such thing as "Privacy", whether on the phone or in the room with our friends. Our parents questioned EVERYTHING! I thank God everyday that they were my parents...now. Certainly did not always feel that way then. After I came home for the first time as a adult, I told my mother, "Gosh, it's amazing how smart you were AFTER I left home!"

Maybe parents just need to get back to "old school". No cell phone in every child's possession, VERY limited SUPERVISED internet. We needed to contact our parents from school, we had to use the office phone and it had better be important....not can I go home with so-and-so. IMPORTANT!

I know, times are different but that is no excuse for parents to be their children's friends and not their parents. No wonder so many keep cycling back to the nest after they should be responsible adults! "Bring up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."..The Bible

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by dillywho

Our father had guns and they were NOT locked up. We just knew that we had better not even think of touching them, much less take them out!

We played cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians with cap guns, etc. Sometimes you were the cop, sometimes the robber; sometimes you were the cowboy, sometimes the Indian. Even though I was a girl, PC had not come into being and that meant that I was the cowboy when it was my turn. We didn't have "cowgirls". There were NOT mass shootings then, either. We knew the difference in reality and make-believe. Every movie we saw was not blood and guts in true color, either. The bad guys died; big deal. IT WAS THE MOVIES!

We didn't raise ourselves and we had boundaries that had best not be crossed. We knew what those boundaries were and what the consequence was if we transgressed. It was definitely not "time out to think about it", either. We grew up to be nothing but respectful, polite, compassionate, and disciplined adults. Our psyche and self-esteem were not compromised; quite the opposite. We knew the meaning of the word "NO". I have a picture hanging in my laundry room that I gave my mother. It is of a mother hen and her little chicks. The signage says:

"I'm The Mommy That's Why"

Our parents knew who are friends were (and they were not them), their parents, where we went, what we did. We had a curfew; not a government imposed one, either. It was parent imposed. There was no such thing as "Privacy", whether on the phone or in the room with our friends. Our parents questioned EVERYTHING! I thank God everyday that they were my parents...now. Certainly did not always feel that way then. After I came home for the first time as a adult, I told my mother, "Gosh, it's amazing how smart you were AFTER I left home!"

Maybe parents just need to get back to "old school". No cell phone in every child's possession, VERY limited SUPERVISED internet. We needed to contact our parents from school, we had to use the office phone and it had better be important....not can I go home with so-and-so. IMPORTANT!

I know, times are different but that is no excuse for parents to be their children's friends and not their parents. No wonder so many keep cycling back to the nest after they should be responsible adults! "Bring up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."..The Bible

I understand and hear what you're saying...but let's take off the rose-colored glasses for a minute.

If you're a 'baby-boomer,' you were also more likely to be a 'latch-key' kid...because women started working more.

So by your logic...it really all started then?


However, more importantly is the fact that there have been many cases where children were raised EXACTLY the same, by two parents, under the same rules...YET turn out totally different.

So what is your theory...to explain that?

Trying to reduce a very complex problem, down to a simplistic soundbite that...'because kids were raised better in the past, we didn't have these problems'...is to be oblivious to the truth.

And that truth being, that we parents often try to take too much credit, and get too much blame...on how our children turn out.

[thetruth]

Originally Posted by spuds51

Good post! You touched on a couple things that I too believe to be true. One being cellphones which I believe to be the undoing of our young. What once seemed to be a convenient tool has turned into anything but. Social media is a real problem that needs to be addressed...but how?

Like you said, the other is gun control. Although I agree they should do everything in their power to try to keep guns out of unstable peoples hands I don't think it would solve the problem. If there was a way to magically remove every gun in the country people who want to kill would find a way. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in Oklahoma with fertilizer and fuel oil.

In several of the shootings, the AR-15 was the weapon of choice. So, logic says, remove the AR-15 and it will stop/slow down. It's absolutely amazing how many people believe that the "AR" stands for assault rifle and that it is an automatic weapon.

School shootings are the worst. It makes me sick to think of all the young people that died way before their time for no reason. I keep asking myself why. What would drive someone to do something like that? I keep coming back to media...social and mainstream. I think in someway they are glamorizing these shootings to these kids. They are making them out to be heroes of some sort. The kid in Florida receives fan mail for God's sake.

You/we try to understand an act of INSANITY sanely.

As to things like video games leading to violence. Do you not remember when the same thing was said about CARTOONS-long before video games.

Not sure what you are saying re: AR 15 regularly called in the misinformed or deliberately distorting the truth press calling it an ASSAULT RIFLE. An assault rifle is by definition an automatic rifle. An automatic rifle has been illegal to own since like the 1920's.

Mcvey fertilizer and fuel oil bomb this explosive is commonly used in mining as it is cheap. You can buy it and others at stores all around us. Fuel oil for example is the same a diesel fuel.

People, have been dealing with insanity or perhaps insane acts forever. At one time the solution was a public spectacle of the state killing people-it didn't work. At one time a person like mcvey would have been left in a cage by the entrance to the town. He would be left to starve and then the body would be left to rot away-it didn't work.

Of course we are pained. As you read through these posts, there are no easy answers. Some suggest arming teachers. Yet another NOT SIMPLE IDEA. Who will pay legal expenses if a teacher shoots someone innocent or guilty? Do we want to TEACH KIDS that guns belong in schools.

I HAVE NO EASY ANSWERS-SADLY, HUMANS HAVE NEVER FOUND A PERFECT SOLUTION.

[GoodLife]

Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say

Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say - News @ Northeastern

[Miles42]

bullies are in all schools weed them out put them all together. They deserve each other

[rivaridger1]

There are many things which need to be done to address the school shooting problem but I think we need to start by addressing the responsibilities associated with gun ownership and the absolute necessity to secure the guns. Codify state by state those responsibilities and the civil liability accompanying them. Significant mandatory fines with no waivers if you ignore them. If you have the financial resources to own or buy a gun, it must be presumed you have the resources to secure same particularly from juveniles. Strict liability must be imposed by statute. Are your guns locked up ? If not, and anyone other then you can access them, they should be. Want a self defense weapon next to the bed and there are juveniles in the house, buy one of the new easy access home defense safes.

Let us also insist the schools be secured. Whatever it takes. If we can secure our federal, state and local government buildings, we can secure the schools. Metal detectors at every entrance with armed law enforcement right now are no longer optional. Spend the money. Get it done.

[billethkid]

Many suggestions like metal detectors assume a "normal" entry flow...like airport security. And like airport security 99% of the people going through are not the problem.

The school shooters entered at times when class was already in session. The metal detectors could also assure the perpetrator there are truly no guns inside.

When the first bell rings why are not all the doors locked?
All entries forced to come through a manned office/post/etc.

There are many little things that could be done but won't be because it might inconvenience some one or offend some one. I suspect inconvenience or offense has a different meaning for those who lost a child.....where easy access prevailed!!

[bob&Gail]

If someone is intent on committing a crime it will happen. People say the NRA is a powerful lobby group. Maybe it is. Not a single person guilty of these heinous crimes has been an NRA member. Don’t get me wrong. Something must be done. New laws may not be the answer. Better family values might help. Growing up I was always guilty til proven innocent by my parents. That’s not there today

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Many suggestions like metal detectors assume a "normal" entry flow...like airport security. And like airport security 99% of the people going through are not the problem.

The school shooters entered at times when class was already in session. The metal detectors could also assure the perpetrator there are truly no guns inside.

When the first bell rings why are not all the doors locked?
All entries forced to come through a manned office/post/etc.

There are many little things that could be done but won't be because it might inconvenience some one or offend some one. I suspect inconvenience or offense has a different meaning for those who lost a child.....where easy access prevailed!!

Aren't most kids bused to school? How would the buses be secured?

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Aren't most kids bused to school? How would the buses be secured?

Arriving & leaving school, recess, lunch period, etc....are just some of the other obvious problems.

I also find it interesting, that many of the same people who have no problem increasing the number of armed people and spending gobs of money on 'hardening,' are the same ones resisting existing teacher pay raises, additional teachers/counselors...and the money for just basic school supplies.

It simply makes no sense to me.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Arriving & leaving school, recess, lunch period, etc....are just some of the other obvious problems.

I also find it interesting, that many of the same people who have no problem increasing the number of armed people and spending gobs of money on 'hardening,' are the same ones resisting existing teacher pay raises, additional teachers/counselors...and the money for just basic school supplies.

It simply makes no sense to me.

I would love to see the data backing your position. Because as you say, "Facts matter"..

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

I would love to see the data backing your position. Because as you say, "Facts matter"..

Nothing would please me more, but hard to do...without breaking the rules here.


Hint: Google "***** reduces education funding."


Facts Matter

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Arriving & leaving school, recess, lunch period, etc....are just some of the other obvious problems.

I also find it interesting, that many of the same people who have no problem increasing the number of armed people and spending gobs of money on 'hardening,' are the same ones resisting existing teacher pay raises, additional teachers/counselors...and the money for just basic school supplies.

It simply makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by Kenswing

I would love to see the data backing your position. Because as you say, "Facts matter"..

I'd too like to see the data, but it won't happen. And supplying the data wouldn't break any rules here.