[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

No, seriously, it's definitely my bad...for giving too much credit.

For that...you have my apology.

An original thought from you? Um, no. Although it is amusing that you are now plagiarizing my thoughts.

Puhleeze, you're straining credulity...of even the most naive of people.

If you can't see the bullying in the Tweets...then THAT'S the real problem.

You're doing it again!

Look you can rant and rave, call people names and use all of the emoticons that you want, but you continue to duck. Why can't you produce the work product that you are citing? I should have no need to go and look for the origin of your work product. I have provided you my research time and again.

While solely concentrating on the admittedly embarrassingly stupid statement of "confiscation, then due process" (which I agree was beyond ignorant, for a person at that level), you are purposely avoiding the issue of bumpstocks...WHICH WAS ALSO DISCUSSED in the publicly broadcast meeting.

And yes, THAT was also backpedaled on after the NRA PRIVATE meeting...which has so far resulted in crickets.

Nice try though.

So, YOU put a link to a video in which the president is discussing what you call "backpedaling", you name call, you ignore (and not give credit where he is discussing taking guns before due process) and now you are trying to tie that into me avoiding the bumpstock issue? Why do you continue to muddle the discussion? Perhaps so that you don't have to back up your statements?

I also call out that YOU continue to duck my questions. I answer each of yours, and provide links as appropriate. I still have not seen evidence of your claims, but we are supposed to trust you.

YOU attempted to manipulate the "big boy discussion" by IMPLYING that the leaders condone bullying. It is time for you to muddle the waters once again:

Santa Fe High School student claims students and coaches '''emotionally bullied''' suspected shooter

Quote:
A student who survived the Texas school shooting on Friday has spoken out about the accused gunman, saying that he was 'emotionally bullied' by his classmates and coaches.
But since bullying is condoned, little action taken, loud voices saying "you just need to put your big boy pants on and take it, since it never harmed me" and actually perpetuated by our national leaders...fat chance that will work either.

Those were YOUR words. SHOW all of us where you got this information from-don't tell us to go do your work for you.

You still have not identified if you even understand "due process" and how important it is.

I've given all the evidence a reasonable person needs, which will always fall woefully short with those who actually depend on EMOTIONS...and their love of guns over the love/safety of children.

You haven't given "all the evidence", what you have done is provide rhetoric and opinion which you are attempting to make fact.

[Moderator]

This thread discusses an important topic. Unfortunately, some posters have ceased discussing the topic and are directing their posts at other members and therefore not advancing the discussion. To disagree with a poster’s comment is fine. To resort to name calling or other directed comments is not. Disagree without being disagreeable or your comments will be deleted and/or the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[spuds51]

I have tried to figure out why these mass school shootings continue to happen. Of course, the individual is not mentally stable, no person in their right mind would do something like that, but there have been mentally unstable people going to school forever. Why so many of these shootings now?
Reading this thread there are many people that have ideas as to why or what we may do to stop it. The OP started the thread by addressing gun laws. It would be nice if it was that easy and all we had to do was ban this or that and the criminals would actually obey that law.
Another person thought it may be because of too much video games and such that are putting ideas in their heads. I'm not sure I can completely agree with that either. When I was a child we used to get toy guns for Christmas and played cops and robbers shooting each other. All the shows we watched showed people getting shot or stabbed. We knew it wasn't real.
One person had a pretty good idea about metal detectors but the only problem with that is if there is no one there to stop them it wouldn't matter. The shooter could have pulled the gun out ten feet before he went through the door. If there is no one there to stop him he's coming in.
Someone brought up bullying. Although this is a problem in schools, when hasn't it been, it's still not a reason to kill a bunch of people. What was it that the kid in Florida said was his problem? Oh yeah, his girlfriend broke up with him. None of it makes any sense. I would be willing to bet that 95% or more people reading this have been bullied at some point or another and who hasn't had a break up with a girlfriend.
So what's the cause? This has been touched on by a couple of people but I believe that the main reason that school shootings continue to happen is because of the media. Getting back to what I said to start with...the person that does this has got to be mentally disturbed. I believe that seeing these kids picture and giving their names and telling their sad little stories is what is causing this to continue. In their sick minds, they see these shooters as some kind of heroes or something, championing their cause if you will. They want to be like them (famous). If they would quit showing their face and giving their names this would eventually stop. Even a sick minded person would have to know they are giving their life up as well.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by spuds51

I have tried to figure out why these mass school shootings continue to happen. Of course, the individual is not mentally stable, no person in their right mind would do something like that, but there have been mentally unstable people going to school forever. Why so many of these shootings now?
Reading this thread there are many people that have ideas as to why or what we may do to stop it. The OP started the thread by addressing gun laws. It would be nice if it was that easy and all we had to do was ban this or that and the criminals would actually obey that law.
Another person thought it may be because of too much video games and such that are putting ideas in their heads. I'm not sure I can completely agree with that either. When I was a child we used to get toy guns for Christmas and played cops and robbers shooting each other. All the shows we watched showed people getting shot or stabbed. We knew it wasn't real.
One person had a pretty good idea about metal detectors but the only problem with that is if there is no one there to stop them it wouldn't matter. The shooter could have pulled the gun out ten feet before he went through the door. If there is no one there to stop him he's coming in.
Someone brought up bullying. Although this is a problem in schools, when hasn't it been, it's still not a reason to kill a bunch of people. What was it that the kid in Florida said was his problem? Oh yeah, his girlfriend broke up with him. None of it makes any sense. I would be willing to bet that 95% or more people reading this have been bullied at some point or another and who hasn't had a break up with a girlfriend.
So what's the cause? This has been touched on by a couple of people but I believe that the main reason that school shootings continue to happen is because of the media. Getting back to what I said to start with...the person that does this has got to be mentally disturbed. I believe that seeing these kids picture and giving their names and telling their sad little stories is what is causing this to continue. In their sick minds, they see these shooters as some kind of heroes or something, championing their cause if you will. They want to be like them (famous). If they would quit showing their face and giving their names this would eventually stop. Even a sick minded person would have to know they are giving their life up as well.

Food for thought and well presented.

[billethkid]

I would like to elaborate on the mention of we used to have play guns and pretend etc..
But in movies or in theatres and even early television violence/vulgarity was absent.

In recent years it is common entertainment for rape/murder/dismemberment/beheading with squirting blood scenes/disrespect for others/others property/disrespect of the law and the enforcers.
When one is exposed to this type behavior they become calloused to the real severity of the reaction. They become accustomed to and unaffected by the violence. It becomes accepted/expected.

We have allowed our society to make it acceptable to do/view this violence daily. A very much different person evolves from such exposure.......and we are continuing to allow it at an earlier and earlier age.

Condition reflex!!!! It is real. School shootings are a perfect example.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by spuds51

I have tried to figure out why these mass school shootings continue to happen. Of course, the individual is not mentally stable, no person in their right mind would do something like that, but there have been mentally unstable people going to school forever. Why so many of these shootings now?
Reading this thread there are many people that have ideas as to why or what we may do to stop it. The OP started the thread by addressing gun laws. It would be nice if it was that easy and all we had to do was ban this or that and the criminals would actually obey that law.
Another person thought it may be because of too much video games and such that are putting ideas in their heads. I'm not sure I can completely agree with that either. When I was a child we used to get toy guns for Christmas and played cops and robbers shooting each other. All the shows we watched showed people getting shot or stabbed. We knew it wasn't real.
One person had a pretty good idea about metal detectors but the only problem with that is if there is no one there to stop them it wouldn't matter. The shooter could have pulled the gun out ten feet before he went through the door. If there is no one there to stop him he's coming in.
Someone brought up bullying. Although this is a problem in schools, when hasn't it been, it's still not a reason to kill a bunch of people. What was it that the kid in Florida said was his problem? Oh yeah, his girlfriend broke up with him. None of it makes any sense. I would be willing to bet that 95% or more people reading this have been bullied at some point or another and who hasn't had a break up with a girlfriend.
So what's the cause? This has been touched on by a couple of people but I believe that the main reason that school shootings continue to happen is because of the media. Getting back to what I said to start with...the person that does this has got to be mentally disturbed. I believe that seeing these kids picture and giving their names and telling their sad little stories is what is causing this to continue. In their sick minds, they see these shooters as some kind of heroes or something, championing their cause if you will. They want to be like them (famous). If they would quit showing their face and giving their names this would eventually stop. Even a sick minded person would have to know they are giving their life up as well.

I agree as I proposed in my original response on this thread to stop the publicity. It is a very complex issue and clearly there are options to trying to stop the event, unfortunately most of them are a little too far "down the road". By that I mean that if we focus on stopping the shooter entering the school, the shooter will most likely re-direct their anger at another venue, such as a shopping mall. We in effect fix one problem, but create another while still not fixing the root problem. There have been posts pointing out that we really should look at root causes. Hopefully the powers that be will sit in a room and "white paper" any causes they think of (you don't evaluate relevance here, it is done during the build of the root cause chain). No proposed cause should be dismissed without discussion. A proper root cause investigation will ask hard questions and remove emotion. You start with the most recent event and work backwards and keep asking "why?" until you can't go any further. For each "why" question, there is supposed to be a cause and an effect identified that leads to that question, and then we ask why to each cause and effect. The investigation actually removes emotion and sticks to facts. Given the complexity of the topic, there might be multiple root cause investigation off shoots from the original investigation.

[tomwed]

What do you tell a child that is afraid to go to school? Duck and Cover? like we did when we thought a nuclear war might happen--and being under a desk would protect us

If these crimes are being committed due to isolation what happens when more kids start being home schooled?
I heard on TV that someone is suggesting we close down the schools until we have a solution. I guess they don't have kids.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by tomwed

What do you tell a child that is afraid to go to school? Duck and Cover? like we did when we thought a nuclear war might happen--and being under a desk would protect us

If these crimes are being committed due to isolation what happens when more kids start being home schooled?
I heard on TV that someone is suggesting we close down the schools until we have a solution. I guess they don't have kids.

You will notice a lot of scared kids if you listen to them around stores and the like. SOMETHING needs to be done.

Some FOX News woman broadcaster put out the idea to the Texas AG that kids need to have a place to give information about other kids where they will not have to fear reprisals.

And churches was mentioned. They do need to step up their game in many communities. Get out there with outreach.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Some FOX News woman broadcaster put out the idea to the Texas AG that kids need to have a place to give information about other kids where they will not have to fear reprisals.

That was also my suggestion. You need multiple 24 hour hotlines where you can talk to someone and get some comfort or blow a whistle. Where I taught we lost someone who everybody loved, suicide. We brought in extra grief counselors. That pales greatly in comparison.

[Nucky]

Tomwed why aren’t the big guys listening to people like you who were on the front lines so to speak. Mind Boggling that this hasn’t been solved.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I would like to elaborate on the mention of we used to have play guns and pretend etc.. But in movies or in theatres and even early television violence/vulgarity was absent.

In recent years it is common entertainment for rape/murder/dismemberment/beheading with squirting blood scenes/disrespect for others/others property/disrespect of the law and the enforcers.
When one is exposed to this type behavior they become calloused to the real severity of the reaction. They become accustomed to and unaffected by the violence. It becomes accepted/expected.

We have allowed our society to make it acceptable to do/view this violence daily. A very much different person evolves from such exposure.......and we are continuing to allow it at an earlier and earlier age.

Condition reflex!!!! It is real. School shootings are a perfect example.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Nucky

Tomwed why aren’t the big guys listening to people like you who were on the front lines so to speak. Mind Boggling that this hasn’t been solved.

i don't know -- but i think about it a lot.

[tophcfa]

Kids are staying up all night playing fortnight. The goal of this game is to kill everyone else and be the last one standing. Once they do it for multiple nights, the distinction between reality and video games becomes blurred. To make matters worse, these same kids have no social aptitude since their existence is spent playing virtual non-reality video games. Very sad indeed!

When we all grew up, if we got into trouble we were sent to our rooms and not allowed to go outside and play. No, if a kid gets into trouble the parents take away their smartphone and locks out their computer access and does not allow them to go to their rooms. Whatever happened to going outside and playing ball or climbing a tree? With the explosion of social media and got to have it immediately technology, it's no wonder bad things are happening with our youth.

[ColdNoMore]

New NRA President Oliver North blames school shootings on Ritalin, “culture of violence.”

Incoming NRA President Oliver North proved that he’s going to be no different than his predecessor when it comes to responding to mass shootings.

North may not be a doctor but he’s certainly no stranger to violent video games.

North was a consultant and appeared on certain ads for the video game Call of Duty: Black Ops II.

[billethkid]

What is the real issue/cause and why continue to be ignored. Why? Because the politics and the media have made it to be as it is.

Different example of why some issues/causes are addressed and others are not.

We have all heard about or have some knowledge of MADD (mother's against drunk driving). The mothers of America have demonstrated this cause on and off throughout history. However statistically equivalent or worse is the deaths caused by cell phone use while driving. Where is the rage and cause of the mothers about cell phones and driving? Non-existent! Why? Because guess who is a major user of cell phones while driving? Unlike alcohol.......THE MOTHERS!!!!
There is not rage or rising because it would affect something they hold near and dear to their personal way of life.....THEIR CELL PHONE.

The same distorted/biased/politicized focus is presented day in and day out regarding guns.......WHEN A SHOOTING OCCURS .........that fits their agenda.

Until the real cause of shootings is addressed there will be no real assessment of what is the real issue, let alone what can practically be done to fix/solve/eliminate the problem.

Every day, several times a day there is the call to "do something" about gun control. However there is just as obvious an absence of what is being suggested to be done than WILL RESULT in the elimination of school shootings.

Why is that?