Ranked Choice Voting

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  #1  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:05 AM
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Default Ranked Choice Voting

Alaska has voted to adopted ranked choice voting going forward for state and federal offices. It's an interesting idea. In Florida and most other states the person with the most votes is the winner. So in a three person race if A gets 40% and the other two, B and C get 35 and 25%, the winner is A the 40% vote getter.

In the real world we recognize that perhaps the 60% who split their votes between B and C may be politically aligned voters who if B or C had dropped out of the race then A had no chance of winning. This exact situation happened in NY in a US Senate contest.

In ranked choice voting the process works as follows. When you vote you rank your choice. Example: My first choice is C, second B and third A. I can vote that order or vote first choice only or first two choices only.

The candidate with the fewest first choice votes is eliminated and his votes are distributed to those voters' second choice if they listed one. So if C got the fewest votes, my vote now goes to candidate B. This process continues until one candidate gets 50% plus 1 of the votes.

The idea is elect people who have the greatest overall support. Sounds like a good idea. It also eliminates runoffs like they are having in Georgia where that state requires 50% for a winner but does not have ranked choice.

Alaska also adopted a top four primary system. All primaries for state and federal office will now be open to all voters. Candidates can run with a party label or no party label. The top four vote getters, not ranked choice, advance to the general election.

In a high school the election for class president had three candidates, the football team star, the head cheerleader, and a guy who was best known to the student body as someone who could get you weed on demand. Ranked choice voting will elect either the football or cheerleader. Regular voting just might get you the candy man.

The best argument for ranked choice is that it moderates the elected winners as you need to appeal not just to a fringe but to a broader range of voters.

This system does not favor either major party rather it seems to provide that the candidate with the most support actually wins.
  #2  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:21 AM
Joe V. Joe V. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash View Post
Alaska has voted to adopted ranked choice voting going forward for state and federal offices. It's an interesting idea. In Florida and most other states the person with the most votes is the winner. So in a three person race if A gets 40% and the other two, B and C get 35 and 25%, the winner is A the 40% vote getter.

In the real world we recognize that perhaps the 60% who split their votes between B and C may be politically aligned voters who if B or C had dropped out of the race then A had no chance of winning. This exact situation happened in NY in a US Senate contest.

In ranked choice voting the process works as follows. When you vote you rank your choice. Example: My first choice is C, second B and third A. I can vote that order or vote first choice only or first two choices only.

The candidate with the fewest first choice votes is eliminated and his votes are distributed to those voters' second choice if they listed one. So if C got the fewest votes, my vote now goes to candidate B. This process continues until one candidate gets 50% plus 1 of the votes.

The idea is elect people who have the greatest overall support. Sounds like a good idea. It also eliminates runoffs like they are having in Georgia where that state requires 50% for a winner but does not have ranked choice.

Alaska also adopted a top four primary system. All primaries for state and federal office will now be open to all voters. Candidates can run with a party label or no party label. The top four vote getters, not ranked choice, advance to the general election.

In a high school the election for class president had three candidates, the football team star, the head cheerleader, and a guy who was best known to the student body as someone who could get you weed on demand. Ranked choice voting will elect either the football or cheerleader. Regular voting just might get you the candy man.

The best argument for ranked choice is that it moderates the elected winners as you need to appeal not just to a fringe but to a broader range of voters.

This system does not favor either major party rather it seems to provide that the candidate with the most support actually wins.
Wrong. Just one example: there’s strong evidence RCV risks distorting voters’ actual will. In Maine, Rep. Bruce Poliquin had apparently won re-election, but with under 50% of the vote. Maine’s ranked-choice system kicked in, eliminating an independent candidate, whose second choice votes were re-allocated.

The election-night results were reversed, and the congressman’s top challenger was awarded that seat.
  #3  
Old 11-18-2020, 11:23 AM
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Regular voting just might get you the candy man.

You think? That's how a new British ship almost came to be named Boaty MCBoatface.
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Old 11-18-2020, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe V. View Post
Wrong. Just one example: there’s strong evidence RCV risks distorting voters’ actual will. In Maine, Rep. Bruce Poliquin had apparently won re-election, but with under 50% of the vote. Maine’s ranked-choice system kicked in, eliminating an independent candidate, whose second choice votes were re-allocated.

The election-night results were reversed, and the congressman’s top challenger was awarded that seat.
Can you expand on what you say is wrong? In your example it seems RCV worked as intended; there were more voters who did not want Poliquin to be reelected but their votes were split between two candidates. When RCV kicked in and removed one of the two opponents, the votes were no longer split and the majority selected the challenger.

In that case, how did RCV not operate exactly as intended and provide the result that the majority of the voters desired without the need for a runoff (like the mess that's about to happen in GA)?
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe V. View Post
Wrong. Just one example: there’s strong evidence RCV risks distorting voters’ actual will. In Maine, Rep. Bruce Poliquin had apparently won re-election, but with under 50% of the vote. Maine’s ranked-choice system kicked in, eliminating an independent candidate, whose second choice votes were re-allocated.

The election-night results were reversed, and the congressman’s top challenger was awarded that seat.
That is an excellent example which you seem to believe was a theft of office. The original vote totals:
Bruce Poliquin 46.33% 134,184
Jared Golden 45.58% 132,013
Tiffany Bond 5.71% 16,552
Will Hoar 2.37% 6,875

Final result after re-allocation of Hoar then Bond votes:

Jared Golden 50.6 142,440
Bruce Poliquin 49.4 138,931

This means that Golden was the second choice of over 10,000 of the voters while Poliquin was second choice of about 4000. Had only those two been on the ballot, Golden was the preferred choice and he ended up winning. Seems like a good system to me. Obviously some voters did not list a second [or third] choice.
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:20 PM
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Isn’t that one of the amendments we just voted on?
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2020, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwann View Post
Regular voting just might get you the candy man.

You think? That's how a new British ship almost came to be named Boaty MCBoatface.
Boaty McBoatface - Wikipedia

While the lead ship whose name was the subject of the online poll was instead named RRS Sir David Attenborough, they did use the name for one of the submirsibles on the mother ship.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2020, 12:39 PM
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Isn’t that one of the amendments we just voted on?
What the defeated amendment did was propose a top two open primary system, not ranked voting. If it had passed then the primary for Florida offices, not federal offices, would have been open to all voters and candidates with top two going on to the general election.
Example if 10 people qualified to run for governor then all 10 names would be on the primary ballot with top two going on. The problem with not using ranked voting in this open primary system is that you may not get the most preferred options. Say you have a far right wing candidate, hated by more mainstream GOP but adored by the Proud Boys and neo fascists with support of 15% of the electorate and hated by the other 85%. And you have a member of antifa on the far left, hated by more mainstream Dems but adored by 15% of the electorate. And the other 8 candidates split the 70% of the remaining voters each getting about 9% of the primary vote.
The two candidates in the general election are now the most extreme. If you had rank choice voting in the primary then neither of the extremists would make the final ballot.

This is why Alaska went to a top four from the primary to lessen the chance of fringe candidates getting through. I'd support a top four with ranked voting primary followed by a ranked voting general election.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2020, 02:04 PM
Joe V. Joe V. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueash View Post
That is an excellent example which you seem to believe was a theft of office. The original vote totals:
Bruce Poliquin 46.33% 134,184
Jared Golden 45.58% 132,013
Tiffany Bond 5.71% 16,552
Will Hoar 2.37% 6,875

Final result after re-allocation of Hoar then Bond votes:

Jared Golden 50.6 142,440
Bruce Poliquin 49.4 138,931

This means that Golden was the second choice of over 10,000 of the voters while Poliquin was second choice of about 4000. Had only those two been on the ballot, Golden was the preferred choice and he ended up winning. Seems like a good system to me. Obviously some voters did not list a second [or third] choice.
Your use of second bites at the apple is not founded on principles of a Constitutional Republic. Just another tactic to bring in mob rule.
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Old 11-18-2020, 02:30 PM
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Your use of second bites at the apple is not founded on principles of a Constitutional Republic. Just another tactic to bring in mob rule.
So you contend that dropping a low vote candidates and making the final decision be between more favored candidates by re-distributing their support is mob rule and contrary to the Constitution? Do I understand your argument correctly?
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Old 11-18-2020, 02:36 PM
Bogie Shooter Bogie Shooter is offline
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Some voters today, have trouble finding the polling place, knowing how to register and trouble filling out the ballot.
Now you want them to learn how this new system works......good luck with that.
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Old 11-18-2020, 02:38 PM
Hape2Bhr Hape2Bhr is offline
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Believe it or not, this system was resoundly defeated (fortunately) in Massachusetts. I would not put it past any party from entering numerous candidates merely to prevent someone from receiving 50% +1.
Let the top vote getter be the winner...easy.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by blueash View Post
So you contend that dropping a low vote candidates and making the final decision be between more favored candidates by re-distributing their support is mob rule and contrary to the Constitution? Do I understand your argument correctly?

Their support was on the losing side of the four person race. Period. It really is a simple concept.
  #14  
Old 11-18-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hape2Bhr View Post
Believe it or not, this system was resoundly defeated (fortunately) in Massachusetts. I would not put it past any party from entering numerous candidates merely to prevent someone from receiving 50% +1.
Let the top vote getter be the winner...easy.
You're not understanding how it works. If one party wants to run numerous candidates it does not prevent a winner.

Say 6 GOP run in Sumter Co for commissioner equally dividing the GOP vote and 1 Dem. Under our present system if the Dem gets 30% of the vote he wins even though the GOP candidates got 70%. Rank choice voting means one of the GOP candidates will win.

In the 2020 Georgia senate races, Perdue got 49.7% of the votes and a Libertarian got 2.3% with the Democrat getting 48.0 %. Under rank voting the Libertarian is eliminated and the second option of his voters is used. Likely 80% Republican meaning the election is over and Perdue wins.

In the other Georgia race there were 21 candidates who received 0.3% of the vote or more. But the leading two Democrats received 40% of the votes while the top two Republicans received 46% of the votes. If you total all the votes by party there were more cast for GOP than DEM. But the leading vote getter in the election by a 33% to 26% margin was a Democrat. Under the system in almost every other state he would be Senator elect. Under ranked choice voting it is more likely one of the Republicans would win.

In this year's Presidential election in the swing states that remain close, rank choice voting possibly makes Trump the winner
In Georgia Trump has 49.2 % and the Libertarian has 1.2 %
In Arizona Trump has 49.1% and the Libertarian has 1.5%
Wisconsin also would be in play with ranked choice.
That's 37 electoral votes.
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Old 11-18-2020, 03:42 PM
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Interesting concept. It could be really interesting, if my second choice is the most moderate candidate of a different party than my first choice. I could possibly be persuaded by it as long as it is done as well as this election, which was more secure than any U.S. election ever before. Our biggest concern for future elections however, should be toward those who seem to want to lower the bar to that of the Ufraudastans around the world.
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