[eweissenbach]

Seems the moderators and administrator of the site have had to do overtime duty on the board the last few days, deleting posts and shutting down threads. They shut down the political site, largely because the tone could not remain civil and because they were spending an inordinate amount of time administering it. Would hate to see people kicked off the board because they can't be civil. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Humor is a very personal thing and without context and sometimes facial expression or body language, is misunderstood. Humor to one, may be critical or hurtful to another. Sarcasm, satire, and irony do not translate well to forums of this type and should be used with care. Believe me, I have posted things I thought of as funny and harmless, that others percieved as mean-spirited, and for that I apologize.

Most issues or opinions are not black or white. If you disagree with someone, it does not mean they are not right in the way they see things, nor that you are not right in the way you see things. Disagreement should generally be accompanied with an acknowledgment that one can understand the opposite point of view but disagrees in specific ways. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on, and sometimes it is best to simply ignore things. I can't tell you how many times I have hit quote and reply and began to compose a response, and then realized that nothing positive could possibly come of it, and it was best to simply back away from the keyboard.

What you write may be misunderstood. I have had this happen many times, and generally when I go back and look at my post, I find that I didn't provide proper context or tried to be too brief and left out things that would have provided clarity. For example, I recently said in reply to a post that I thought was pointedly critical of another poster, something to the effect that while you don't have to do (whatever the subject of the post was about), you don't have to be a jerk either. I was not really calling them a jerk, but implying that it was equally poor taste to criticize them so severely as it was to do the thing the OP had done or said. It came out wrong (hopefully this won't do the same) and was rightly deleted. I generally re-read my posts prior to submitting them to check for spelling, grammar, and context, but still my thoughts are sometimes misstated or misconstrued.

As my friend Joe (2B) says, it doesn't cost anything to be nice, which are probably words for most of us, myself included, to pay more attention to.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Seems the moderators and administrator of the site have had to do overtime duty on the board the last few days, deleting posts and shutting down threads. They shut down the political site, largely because the tone could not remain civil and because they were spending an inordinate amount of time administering it. Would hate to see people kicked off the board because they can't be civil. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Humor is a very personal thing and without context and sometimes facial expression or body language, is misunderstood. Humor to one, may be critical or hurtful to another. Sarcasm, satire, and irony do not translate well to forums of this type and should be used with care. Believe me, I have posted things I thought of as funny and harmless, that others percieved as mean-spirited, and for that I apologize.

Most issues or opinions are not black or white. If you disagree with someone, it does not mean they are not right in the way they see things, nor that you are not right in the way you see things. Disagreement should generally be accompanied with an acknowledgment that one can understand the opposite point of view but disagrees in specific ways. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on, and sometimes it is best to simply ignore things. I can't tell you how many times I have hit quote and reply and began to compose a response, and then realized that nothing positive could possibly come of it, and it was best to simply back away from the keyboard.

What you write may be misunderstood. I have had this happen many times, and generally when I go back and look at my post, I find that I didn't provide proper context or tried to be too brief and left out things that would have provided clarity. For example, I recently said in reply to a post that I thought was pointedly critical of another poster, something to the effect that while you don't have to do (whatever the subject of the post was about), you don't have to be a jerk either. I was not really calling them a jerk, but implying that it was equally poor taste to criticize them so severely as it was to do the thing the OP had done or said. It came out wrong (hopefully this won't do the same) and was rightly deleted. I generally re-read my posts prior to submitting them to check for spelling, grammar, and context, but still my thoughts are sometimes misstated or misconstrued.

As my friend Joe (2B) says, it doesn't cost anything to be nice, which are probably words for most of us, myself included, to pay more attention to.

Excellent post. Well done.

[ugotme]

Excellent post!

Everyone has the right to disagree. However disagreement in a civil manner is generally a discussion. This is what all comments should be posted as.

A thoughtful, clear concise explanation may cause the recipient to alter his/her thinking but may not. So be it!

One of the beauties of living here in The United States of America!

[OldDave]

Well said, Ed. I am somewhat worried about the increased activity coinciding with my return to posting. Coincidence? Hmmm.

[2BNTV]

Thanks Ed and as usual, a well thought out post.

I usually am careful when responding to a post and tend to think it's the better thought not to say anything when someone post something I find to be objectionable. I have on a couple of occasions been misunderstood and tend to believe no one wins if you get into an argument so why start one?
If I offend anyone, I would be the first to apoligize. I did post a short response yesterday that would have better if I expanded my thoughts.
For that, I am sorry. We should all strive to agree to disagree respectfully. We are at an age where we don't need any additional heartache.

I always remember the story about Lincoln when he wrote a letter to a general roundly criticizing him for not attacking the enemy. He then decided to put the letter in his drawer instead of mailing it as he was angry. He read the letter after sleeping on it and then got news the general had attacked the enemy that morning so he would up ripping the letter and throwing it away instead of having to mail it.

Dale Carnegie once said, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Okay, I won't quit my day day .

[NotGolfer]

I agree...with ALL the posters here!!! We've all seen some snippy responses on here. It's too bad as this site is really a great way to get some information (quickly most of the time). I appreciate whom ever set it up originally!! Thank you!!!

[rubicon]

My take on this goes to two issues. First political correctness has been so ingrained into our thinking that too may of us have forgotten how to have a civil discussion because the immediate reaction to a word or the content of a statement is immediately taken as an affront. Think about how many people you are comfortble with kidding or teaseing anymore. I can think of two my wife and my brother other than that I hold back because experience has taught me that too many people over-react.

Secondly, this country is so decisively divided; especially politically that just being in the opposite political party is enough to set a person off. Just watch the news from the standpoint of what I just said and I promise you that you will see examples of this story after story.

That old live and let live philosophy simply is dying out...and it is a heartbreaker

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by rubicon

My take on this goes to two issues. First political correctness has been so ingrained into our thinking that too may of us have forgotten how to have a civil discussion because the immediate reaction to a word or the content of a statement is immediately taken as an affront. Think about how many people you are comfortble with kidding or teaseing anymore. I can think of two my wife and my brother other than that I hold back because experience has taught me that too many people over-react.

Secondly, this country is so decisively divided; especially politically that just being in the opposite political party is enough to set a person off. Just watch the news from the standpoint of what I just said and I promise you that you will see examples of this story after story.

That old live and let live philosophy simply is dying out...and it is a heartbreaker

Your point about the "news" is spot on. I said this the other day. I can think of NOT ONE news media that reports total stories. I can only imagine true and real journalists from the past as they watch this group...the MSM...be above reproach, and very seldom questioned on WHAT they report nor WHAT THEY DO NOT report.

[OldDave]

Amen Bucco. Your comment about old journalists really hits home. I don't believe I could work in journalism today. The rules we used to live by have all gone out the window. When reporters show up on talk shows giving their personal opinions, it's pretty much over.

Of course, I guess we're all at fault. CNN is the only cable news channel that seems to attempt to be balanced (I'm not commenting on how successful they are.) Fox and MSNBC both make their living by appealing to their own constituencies and not really trying to hide it. AND both of them have higher ratings than CNN, so apparently we like what they do better.

It is interesting that CNN just hired a new president, and he said his first task is to broaden their definition of News. That cannot be good. We'll likely see Honey Boo Boo looking for big foot on CNN by the end of next year.

[cologal]

As veteran of the political thread I learned that even though I am center left and others center right usually we could agree on issues if we calmly explained our position and the reason behind it. I miss those.discussions. Its all about finding common ground!

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by cologal

As veteran of the political thread I learned that even though I am center left and others center right usually we could agree on issues if we calmly explained our position and the reason behind it. I miss those.discussions. Its all about finding common ground!

miss that forum, too! i always found it a place to learn - even if some of the 'lessons' were a bit more than heated! the discussions always provided insight as to how/why one's opinions were formed. totv lost an informative forum.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

miss that forum, too! i always found it a place to learn - even if some of the 'lessons' were a bit more than heated! the discussions always provided insight as to how/why one's opinions were formed. totv lost an informative forum.

When the political forum was shut down admin said they would revisit the possibility of opening it again after the election. So maybe there is still hope?

[graciegirl]

Ed. This is my theory. Some people like to inflame and they are warned and eventually banned but return again under a new name, no matter how hard the moderators try to control this.

It is very easy apparently to disappear under one name that has caused trouble and to reappear under another.

I am pretty sure of some reappearers because their errors, their habits and their writing style is the same.

And I am close to giving the forum over to them. They have hurt some sensitive and well meaning posters.

And Old Dave, you are right. You can write from your heart until the cows come home but you won't change anybody's mind.

[Xavier]

Perhaps if you went back and read the last couple weeks of what was posted in the political forum just prior to the closing, you might get shocked back to reality. It's best that it remains gone. There is no civility in politics -especially here. A couple of those who used to post there have demonstrated recently, in the regular forum, that nothing has changed. Of course, when the topic comes up again, some of the regular posters to political, who have been mostly away from TOTV, come out of the woodwork to put their two cents in - just as I have just done.

Xavier

[sueandskip]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Your point about the "news" is spot on. I said this the other day. I can think of NOT ONE news media that reports total stories. I can only imagine true and real journalists from the past as they watch this group...the MSM...be above reproach, and very seldom questioned on WHAT they report nor WHAT THEY DO NOT report.

I take a totallyh different view on all this ....My forfathers as well as I and most of you either know or have personally fought for the rights you have and supposidly hold dear....One of them is freedom of speech....It is written and it is the law....So why are all of you ready to looose more of your rights just because you don't like the way someone said it ? I will fight for your right to speak will you not fight for mine ?